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      (Original post by BJack)
      No, the importance of enthusiasm as a selection criterion is frequently overestimated, at least in the sciences.
      Is it really? (Then again, I know that the most important criterion for certain science subjects is the entrance test).

      OP, if I were in your position I would do what was best to make you happy. Even if it means you have to "drop" out. Sure, it's Oxford and all that - wow (!) but all for the sake of the emotional and mental well-being? I personally don't think it's worth it. One should firstly and primarily be happy at university. After all, the Oxbridge system is not for everyone, so I don't blame you if you "drop" out. There's no shame in that, I don't think. How could any one of us judge you based on that? I think that is pretty shallow to look down on a person just because they dropped out of Oxford as someone else would have (hypothetically) benefited from the experience. That is not right.
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      (Original post by CaptainFunk)
      Please note you never have to disclose that you've previously attended a university and failed to complete your degree. Even on the UCAS form, they state that you must disclose your full educational history yet if you don't disclose it you are unlikely to be caught out!
      This is really bad advice. If you apply and don't disclose and they find out, you are effectively committing fraud and UCAS will withdraw your application.

      Having dropped out won't necessarily prejudice another uni against you - they see it all the time and know it's no big deal. But they will want to be sure you didn't get kicked out for being a knife-wielding maniac or something, so will expect the uni you've left to be able to give you a reference.

      My partner works for a good uni and she says they catch out six or seven people every year who don't mention previous uni attendance. It's not a risk worth taking.
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      If you are prepared for the consequences of dropping out, then do what you think is positive for your future.
      There has always been successful people who did not recieve education of quality because they knew unis are not the right places for them. They were confident in themselves that they would have greater achievement without those professors. But I am not encouraging you to just quit. I mean , you gotta have some spotlights on yourself. You must be intelligent in something, Find it out and see what you can to make the greatest use of it. Make it your expertise.
      As many people have said, your are a grown up. You have to be rational and gain courage to face the facts.
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      (Original post by megaduck)
      This is really bad advice. If you apply and don't disclose and they find out, you are effectively committing fraud and UCAS will withdraw your application.

      Having dropped out won't necessarily prejudice another uni against you - they see it all the time and know it's no big deal. But they will want to be sure you didn't get kicked out for being a knife-wielding maniac or something, so will expect the uni you've left to be able to give you a reference.

      My partner works for a good uni and she says they catch out six or seven people every year who don't mention previous uni attendance. It's not a risk worth taking.
      Oh dear, I didn't put it in officially on my second ucas application, but I did mention it in my PS...do you think i'll still be fine?
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      (Original post by hobnob)
      As I said, it all depends on how narrow your definition of 'work' is - and people do use very different definitions. If you count time that you spend desperately staring at your computer screen / textbook / problem sheet without actually achieving anything (for one reason or another), or sitting at the library late at night, trying to stay awake and keep your mind from wandering because you feel that you *have* to finish no matter what, then yes, it's possible to rack up that many hours a week. But it's debatable whether that kind of thing really constitutes 'work' if a lot of your time is actually taken up by trying to force yourself to focus and there's no actual result at the end, other than that you make yourself feel miserable.:dontknow:
      After posting my previous message OP, I remembered that the chaplain at my college mentioned that the main Student Union offers some sort of study support which aims to avoid the above form of 'work' hobnob has defined and get people working more efficiently. She said she'd look into it for me, but is very busy and hasn't got back to me so far, so I might contact them myself (if I have time!) if I'm still having problems with this next term. Maybe this is something you could consider?

      Part of me wants to tell my tutors that I will not be working past midnight from now on and they'll just have to put up with the amount of work I get done in that time. Easier said than done! The problem is that I might still end up only getting half the work done, even allowing for the possibility that I would be more alert whilst working, but then again, I've always thought that this would give a better indicator of how I am compared to the other Trinity chemists (who don't work for anywhere near as long as me and think I'm crazy for the time I spend working ). My new tutors this year have predicted me a 2.1/1 in my reports based on the tute work I've done for them, which I know is rather optimistic!
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      (Original post by Jeykayem)
      Part of me wants to tell my tutors that I will not be working past midnight from now on and they'll just have to put up with the amount of work I get done in that time. Easier said than done! The problem is that I might still end up only getting half the work done, even allowing for the possibility that I would be more alert whilst working, but then again, I've always thought that this would give a better indicator of how I am compared to the other Trinity chemists (who don't work for anywhere near as long as me and think I'm crazy for the time I spend working ). My new tutors this year have predicted me a 2.1/1 in my reports based on the tute work I've done for them, which I know is rather optimistic!
      I think there's a good chance that you'll be able to work more efficiently if you can manage to get to a stage at which you no longer feel obliged to keep working past midnight / however long it takes. It's probably that ruthlessness towards yourself which is partly to blame for your inefficiency, because even if you have the capacity to work efficiently in principle, you'd never be able to sustain it for that long. So maybe if you stop tiring yourself out, you'll find you're actually able to get everything done with just 4-5 hours' work a day.
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      (Original post by Jeykayem)
      After posting my previous message OP, I remembered that the chaplain at my college mentioned that the main Student Union offers some sort of study support which aims to avoid the above form of 'work' hobnob has defined and get people working more efficiently. She said she'd look into it for me, but is very busy and hasn't got back to me so far, so I might contact them myself (if I have time!) if I'm still having problems with this next term. Maybe this is something you could consider?

      Part of me wants to tell my tutors that I will not be working past midnight from now on and they'll just have to put up with the amount of work I get done in that time. Easier said than done! The problem is that I might still end up only getting half the work done, even allowing for the possibility that I would be more alert whilst working, but then again, I've always thought that this would give a better indicator of how I am compared to the other Trinity chemists (who don't work for anywhere near as long as me and think I'm crazy for the time I spend working ). My new tutors this year have predicted me a 2.1/1 in my reports based on the tute work I've done for them, which I know is rather optimistic!
      Wow, I wish I'd known about that in my second year, lol! I think you should def tell them this, even if it only ends up being for a trial period or something. I seriously doubt your tutors would want you to be running yourself into the ground and not getting the right amount of sleep. My JRF was horrified when she realised how I was working and my main tutor ended up with a huge guilt complex about how ill I end up getting. I'm sure a healthy work pattern will help things a bit

      Btw, wanna clarify that the last time I quoted you, I meant to say that in a place full of clever, motivated people, it's easy to feel you're the worst of the bunch and that you're thick when you're really not. That was what I meant, not "zomg, you should keep on working stupid hours and feeling stupid, coz it's Oxford!!!!!" Rather dazed state meant it was worded in a very stupid way
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      (Original post by hobnob)
      As I said, it all depends on how narrow your definition of 'work' is - and people do use very different definitions. If you count time that you spend desperately staring at your computer screen / textbook / problem sheet without actually achieving anything (for one reason or another), or sitting at the library late at night, trying to stay awake and keep your mind from wandering because you feel that you *have* to finish no matter what, then yes, it's possible to rack up that many hours a week. But it's debatable whether that kind of thing really constitutes 'work' if a lot of your time is actually taken up by trying to force yourself to focus and there's no actual result at the end, other than that you make yourself feel miserable.:dontknow:
      I agree with Sithius. The OP is lying to herself if she considers that work - and to restate she said 'solid' work. If she was honest with herself, she would learn about her intellect/how she works. If she kids herself that 4 hours at the computer (an hour on Facebook, 2 hours typing up notes while listening to music and thinking of something else, 20 minutes making coffee and 40 minutes staring out the window) constitutes solid work, then she will make little progress. Better to admit she likes going on facebook and looking out the window, and to be honest when she actually works well so she can increase her productivity and minimise under-performance. It's better to work for 2 hours effectively and actually know something than to work for 8 and not know very much at all. Plus if you're honest with yourself you feel better about yourself generally.
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      Dropping out of Oxford like all the other upper class because they aren't even smart.
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      (Original post by im so academic)
      Is it really? (Then again, I know that the most important criterion for certain science subjects is the entrance test).

      OP, if I were in your position I would do what was best to make you happy. Even if it means you have to "drop" out. Sure, it's Oxford and all that - wow (!) but all for the sake of the emotional and mental well-being? I personally don't think it's worth it. One should firstly and primarily be happy at university. After all, the Oxbridge system is not for everyone, so I don't blame you if you "drop" out. There's no shame in that, I don't think. How could any one of us judge you based on that? I think that is pretty shallow to look down on a person just because they dropped out of Oxford as someone else would have (hypothetically) benefited from the experience. That is not right.
      I think this is the first time I've agreed with one of your posts! :eek:

      But yes, this! ^

      PS. Is Necessarily Benevolent still around? I seem to remember you two had a *thing*. :teehee:
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      (Original post by Oh my Ms. Coffey)
      Should of applied to Cambridge.
      It is have not of, you illiterate moron.
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      (Original post by Rancorous)
      I agree with Sithius. The OP is lying to herself if she considers that work - and to restate she said 'solid' work. If she was honest with herself, she would learn about her intellect/how she works. If she kids herself that 4 hours at the computer (an hour on Facebook, 2 hours typing up notes while listening to music and thinking of something else, 20 minutes making coffee and 40 minutes staring out the window) constitutes solid work, then she will make little progress. Better to admit she likes going on facebook and looking out the window, and to be honest when she actually works well so she can increase her productivity and minimise under-performance. It's better to work for 2 hours effectively and actually know something than to work for 8 and not know very much at all. Plus if you're honest with yourself you feel better about yourself generally.
      I never said it was my personal definition of work...:dontknow: For what it's worth: I agree with you that there's an element of self-deception to this. I think that one of the main causes for this kind of self-deception is having unrealistic expectations of yourself in terms of the hours you put in, though. And when you've got such unrealistic expectations of yourself, you won't even be able to enjoy the hours you spend on Facebook / looking out of the window, because at the back of your mind you've always got that niggling sense of guilt that you ought to be working, even if you can't. So I'd say when you're in that kind of situation, you still need to get rid of that sense of guilt first, before you can start being honest to yourself about how much time you spend faffing around and doing nothing much, otherwise the honesty will only make you feel lazy as well as miserable, no?
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      (Original post by hobnob)
      I never said it was my personal definition of work...:dontknow: For what it's worth: I agree with you that there's an element of self-deception to this. I think that one of the main causes for this kind of self-deception is having unrealistic expectations of yourself in terms of the hours you put in, though. And when you've got such unrealistic expectations of yourself, you won't even be able to enjoy the hours you spend on Facebook / looking out of the window, because at the back of your mind you've always got that niggling sense of guilt that you ought to be working, even if you can't. So I'd say when you're in that kind of situation, you still need to get rid of that sense of guilt first, before you can start being honest to yourself about how much time you spend faffing around and doing nothing much, otherwise the honesty will only make you feel lazy as well as miserable, no?
      I agree with that...no idea why my post generated neg rep though
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      (Original post by megaduck)
      This is really bad advice. If you apply and don't disclose and they find out, you are effectively committing fraud and UCAS will withdraw your application.

      Having dropped out won't necessarily prejudice another uni against you - they see it all the time and know it's no big deal. But they will want to be sure you didn't get kicked out for being a knife-wielding maniac or something, so will expect the uni you've left to be able to give you a reference.

      My partner works for a good uni and she says they catch out six or seven people every year who don't mention previous uni attendance. It's not a risk worth taking.
      It doesn't really matter. I left a uni, applied again a few years later having done some more qualifications without mentioning it on my ucas form, told them about it at my Oxford interview when asked what I'd been up to in the preceding years and got in. And got offers from everywhere else except LSE.
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      So I've read all the responses People seem to be divided, either saying stick it out because the benefits will be worth it in the long term, or make sure to stay happy even if that means doing something different.

      To everyone saying I spend too much time on Facebook or staring out of the window, the time was spent reading over a problem and going over sets of notes again and again trying to understand what's going on, and getting increasingly frustrated because no matter how much time is put in, it just doesn't click. In the end, often after speaking to tutors, I sometimes find the solution, but onto the next question and it all starts over again from scratch. In short, am genuinely trying really hard, am just not good enough to get anywhere useful...so yeah I am basically “faffing around and doing nothing much”

      Because Queen's isn't as harsh about Collections as some other colleges (won't get thrown out for failure...) it seems like a decent idea to work and revise a sensible amount until then, and see how it goes. After talking to a fourth year who said some of his first Collection marks were single-figured percentages, doing really badly shouldn't be the end of the world but will be an indication of how much is actually being learnt. Then I’ll make the final decision

      Massive thanks to everyone who left constructive comments, positive or otherwise
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      (Original post by cifes)
      So I've read all the responses People seem to be divided, either saying stick it out because the benefits will be worth it in the long term, or make sure to stay happy even if that means doing something different.

      To everyone saying I spend too much time on Facebook or staring out of the window, the time was spent reading over a problem and going over sets of notes again and again trying to understand what's going on, and getting increasingly frustrated because no matter how much time is put in, it just doesn't click. In the end, often after speaking to tutors, I sometimes find the solution, but onto the next question and it all starts over again from scratch. In short, am genuinely trying really hard, am just not good enough to get anywhere useful...so yeah I am basically “faffing around and doing nothing much”

      Because Queen's isn't as harsh about Collections as some other colleges (won't get thrown out for failure...) it seems like a decent idea to work and revise a sensible amount until then, and see how it goes. After talking to a fourth year who said some of his first Collection marks were single-figured percentages, doing really badly shouldn't be the end of the world but will be an indication of how much is actually being learnt. Then I’ll make the final decision

      Massive thanks to everyone who left constructive comments, positive or otherwise
      Doing collections and taking things from there seems like a plan. Don't be afraid to talk to your tutors about how you're feeling and to other college welfare staff (not the Senior Tutor or anyone like that, someone less formal and less related to your academics). It can be quite nice sometimes to wail to someone over a cup of tea and biscuit :yes:

      Best of luck with it all anyway :hugs:
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      I'd stick at it. You can only do this once, even if you hate it I'd try and endure it. Think of the things you COULD have by the end of it, an oxford degree in chemistry, which I'm sure most fields of work will accept, and a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Try and live for the little things there, and who knows, maybe you'll even end up with that guy good luck. (oh and I'd die to go to oxford lol)
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      Stick it out, seiously the benefits in the future are going to be amazing
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      I'd have a word with the University student union. Colleges can be very variable on their flexibility in allowing students to change course. Some colleges seem to let practically anybody change, while others are really strict about that. If you just happen to have an unusually stubborn Senior Tutor at your college, help from the Union might make a difference.
      As far as I'm aware, colleges really try to avoid people dropping out and it may be that if they know that you'll definitely drop out if you don't get to change course that they might change their minds.
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      I'm considering taking Hilary term out, on medical grounds. Does anyone know what the general feelings are on taking terms out as an Undergraduate (physics)? It was also mean me missing collections, could I still progress on to next year without them?
     
     
     
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