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    You're being sexist.
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    (Original post by Jabbo12)
    by the way in my school a female teacher got maternity leave two years ago and she hasn't been back since. She left.
    was she on full pay for two years off?
    that sort of thing is bad for the deficit.
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    (Original post by Horsedobbin)
    No, it's not sexist. Women need more flexible hours if they have their own children to look after and washing up etc to get on with so nursing suits them better.
    Nurses don't have flexible hours though. Their hours are just as insane (if not worse) than most doctors.

    That said the OP makes an interesting point. The issue is you can't apply those stats to an individual because statistics by their very nature tell you nothing about an individual just about the group as a whole that the individual is in. So in relaity there is nothing you can do about higher dropout rates by women.
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    Whether women realise it or not but all this equality has led them to work twice as hard when compared to the generations before.

    Not only do they have to compete with men in the working world but they also have to care for their kids and put their house in order.

    Soon their car insurance will be the same as men too.

    Owel this is what they wished for 'equality'.
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    (Original post by Jabbo12)
    But quality of driving is different to service to medicine as a career. There are tens of thousands who yearn to become doctors, and are willing to go into medicine for the long haul. But even if they are very suitable doctors, they miss out on a place for a woman who, according to statistics so no sexism involved here, are more likely to leave medicine long before 10 years after medical school have passed. Driving is something you can learn in a year or two tops, and really you can learn by yourself or with a member of family, ignoring the fact of illegality.
    Irrelevant. My point is that it's blatant sexism when applied to women, and it's only facts and statistics when it's applied to men, and there's something not right about that.
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    (Original post by Horsedobbin)
    If she is a busy doctor with a long day to get through and no child care in place(eg child minder ill with swine flu and male partner run off with another woman) she would nave no choice except to bring her baby to work, as we have seen happen on soaps such as Casualty, which are very true to life. OR what else could she do? She couldn't just leave her baby at home on its own and couldn't leave it with a child minder who wasn't there because she had swine flu.
    If the baby was in the surgery in its cot and started crying for food, she could hardly ignore it , could she?
    How about you abandon this thread and go live in your fantasy world?

    Your posts, particularly this one, reek of ignorance.

    Out of sheer curiosity, have you had any insight into a medical career besides your very "true to life" soaps? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Horsedobbin)
    If she is a busy doctor with a long day to get through and no child care in place(eg child minder ill with swine flu and male partner run off with another woman) she would nave no choice except to bring her baby to work, as we have seen happen on soaps such as Casualty, which are very true to life. OR what else could she do? She couldn't just leave her baby at home on its own and couldn't leave it with a child minder who wasn't there because she had swine flu.
    If the baby was in the surgery in its cot and started crying for food, she could hardly ignore it , could she?
    Anybody who still wants to argue with a poster who cites Casualty as evidence for their argument is fighting a loosing battle.

    The village called, they need their idiot back!
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Anybody who still wants to argue with a poster who cites Casualty as evidence for their argument is fighting a loosing battle.

    The village called, they need their idiot back!
    To be frank, I think you would make your point better if you avoided making personal attacks rather than engaging with my points and argument.
    I merely suggested that a woman doctor whose child minder is off sick with swine flu and whose male partner has deserted her for another woman will find it difficult to cope with caring for a young baby. I don't think it's right for you to call me an "idiot" merely because I raise the point. If you think Casualty does not accurately portray the dillemma faced by female doctors with childminding problems where do you suggest people who have not yet had your experience of working in a hospital obtain such vital information? Also, I argued that a baby needs its mother, not some kind of weird breast pumping contraption ; not such a strange idea, some would think.
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    (Original post by Andrii)
    How about you abandon this thread and go live in your fantasy world?

    Your posts, particularly this one, reek of ignorance.

    Out of sheer curiosity, have you had any insight into a medical career besides your very "true to life" soaps? :rolleyes:
    I agree with andrii dude those soaps are completely different to real life. Are you CRAZY?!!?
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    1. There are no figures for how many of the current cohort of female medical students will go on to become consultants/researchers/educators etc. Comparing them to a previous generation is not fair.

    2. Some evidence that consultants are better value for money? And, is it not the case that we can only see a certain number of consultants at any one time, and so it wouldn't make a difference whether they were male or female?
    I could be wrong here, but I don't think there are loads of free consultant positions and doctors just aren't good enough to get them; but rather that there are a limited number of consultant positions and from an overall financial perspective it is irrelevant who is filling those positions.

    3. Arguably, the reason (or part of the reason) why women doctors are under-performing in terms of full-time work etc is because of an unfair distribution of parental responsibility onto their shoulders (due to various employment and social factors) - and so punishing them further by denying access at the entry level constitutes a double jeopardy?

    Like if it was culturally engrained that all men had to help with say farming duty, and then regulations were passed that denied them access to other professions because they were too busy with that (unfairly/disproportionately) assigned work.

    The real and fair solution is to provide means for the task (here childrearing or farming in our examples) to be shared more equally between both genders, rather than establishing additional barriers to one.
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    Try balancing out your argument with statistics that show how men in certain areas of the medical world are a waste of money. Then you wouldn't come across as a sexist. It appears as if you intentionally sought a biased research figure.
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    This problem would be solved if we simply adopted the American Model of higher education and scrapped public funds for it. People can get a job without a degree.
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    (Original post by Horsedobbin)
    totally agree. Women should become nurses if they want to be medically qualified and save the coutnry a lot of money.
    **** you, I don't want to be a nurse so I went to med school.

    So because some women might have children, women should take lower paid and lower status jobs?
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    (Original post by Horsedobbin)
    No, it's not sexist. Women need more flexible hours if they have their own children to look after and washing up etc to get on with so nursing suits them better.
    Nursing is not easy and the hours are long.

    Why can't men look after children/the house too?

    Why can't our culture change?
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    (Original post by lekky)
    You have to remember that when consultants started medical schools there would be a far lower % of females in medical school. It's not fair to compare % of medical school entrants NOW with consultants NOW.
    This.
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    (Original post by Cocopops-Rocks)

    1.The average time it takes a junior doctor to reach a consultant is around a decade and thus, by now, we would have seen a decent reversal in that 28% female consultants. This is all documented in my second post in the thread where I put my references. Is it more difficult for females to get consultant posts though? Maybe they're less likely to be hired

    2. Not everyone wants to be a consultant? Well, thats precisely the problem. Note that consultants add the most value, they deliver the most teaching, they're the people that pay that £237k back the fastest. Really? So staff grade drs don't contribute to patient care, don't each junior staff etc...in fact they have many responsibilities of a consultant but for less pay. Are consultants really better value? Why is the gov't trying to increase % of staff grades and decrease % of consultants in some specialties? Because it's cheaper. Does being a consultant really deliver better value for money?

    If someone enters with the desire that they don't want to be a consultant and just want do part-time work, its much much more beneficial to take someone with more ambitious plans. You can work full time as a dr without being a consultant e.g. staff grade
    Hmm
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    (Original post by Jabbo12)
    Being a Consultant isn't like being a psychiatrist rather than a gp. It is the highest position of hospital medicine and what doctor is there that doesn't want to be at the highest point of their field? Maybe they couldn't get there, but those who don't even try aren't worth the money spent on them by the government tbh.
    Even if every doctor aimed to be a consultant, there aren't enough consultant posts
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    (Original post by jms)
    So training people to be GPs isn't worth the money because they can't carry the "consultant" title?

    Not every doctor works in a hospital.
    Repped.

    Being useful doesn't necessarily mean being a consultant or being in a "well regarded" specialty.

    The medical specialties that are necessary but not flashy, some examples: psychiatry, dermatology, geriatrics, GP, radiology etc

    Being useful doesn't mean being a surgeon, ffs!
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    (Original post by Vazzyb)
    Yep absolutely right. There are different routes people can go down. And when you make the point like this, its completely true...Infact, a significant reason for their lower representation as consultants is probably because more of them become GPs.

    But I think that OP is trying to say that every female doesn't necessarily want the responsibility and accountability of being in the top position. To be honest, I dont think its down to desire its more down to circumstance.
    Yup and isn't Principal GP the equivalent of consultant?
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    (Original post by Jabbo12)
    Why would you NOT WANT TO BE A CONSULTANT?!!! You can give back the most, and contribute to your field as well as developing experience and a background knowledge base.
    Really?

    And you can't do these things at any other level in medicine?
 
 
 
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