Osama bin Laden has been dead for years... Watch

cooper21
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(Original post by Lizzzle)

But you and these other conspiracy theorists who say he's been dead for years are offering no alternative other than "dont believe everything you read"
until you yourself can give me some evidence and not some sceptical comment on the media and the government you sound deluded.

well there are actually many facts (yes facts) that are in favor of the "laden died years ago" theory, so its not only based on sceptical comments and a love for conspiracy
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white_haired_wizard
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I took Osama up the ******* a couple of years ago, he couldn't cope with my girth and he broke into pieces, dying almost instantly. It is true, he has been dead for years.
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Lizzzle
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(Original post by cooper21)
well there are actually many facts (yes facts) that are in favor of the "laden died years ago" theory, so its not only based on sceptical comments and a love for conspiracy
Such facts are presented where?
Lets see them?
And again if these facts are true - where are the photos, who killed him, how did the do it and where was he?

If you point me to a website that isn't a national newspaper or any points that haven't been confirmed by any Government Officials, (From America, UK, Afghanistan, Iraq etc) with proof i'll assume that they aren't really "facts" but more conspiracy theories.
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cooper21
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ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) December 26, 2001-- Pakistan's president says he thinks Osama bin Laden is most likely dead because the suspected terrorist has been unable to get treatment for his kidney disease.

"I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a ... kidney patient," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an interview with CNN.

Musharraf said Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis machines into Afghanistan. "One was specifically for his own personal use," he said.

"I don't know if he has been getting all that treatment in Afghanistan now. And the photographs that have been shown of him on television show him extremely weak. ... I would give the first priority that he is dead and the second priority that he is alive somewhere in Afghanistan."



Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden's Death
and Funeral 10 days ago

Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.




Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, October 16, 2002
TEL AVIV Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have
decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United
States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said.

Al Qaida terrorists have launched a new campaign of economic warfare and
are targeting shipping in the Middle East, according to U.S. intelligence
officials.

The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin
Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in
December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are fabrications, Middle East Newsline reported.


from globalresearch.ca : "First, up until mid-December 13, 2001, the CIA had regularly been intercepting messages between bin Laden and his people. At that time, however, the messages suddenly stopped, and the CIA has never again intercepted a message.

Second, on December 26, 2001, a leading Pakistani newspaper published a story reporting that bin Laden had died in mid-December, adding:
“A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement . . . stated . . . that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial.”
Third, bin Laden had kidney disease. He had been treated for it in the American Hospital in Dubai in July 2001, at which time he reportedly ordered two dialysis machines to take home. If you have ever wondered what bin Laden was doing the night before the 9/11 attacks, CBS News reported that he was being given kidney dialysis treatment in a hospital in Pakistan. And in January of 2001, Dr. Sanjay Gupta said – based on a video of bin Laden that had been made in either late November or early December of 2001 – that he appeared to be in the last stages of kidney failure.

Fourth, In July of 2002, CNN reported that bin Laden’s bodyguards had been captured in February of that year, adding: “Sources believe that if the bodyguards were captured away from bin Laden, it is likely the most-wanted man in the world is dead.”

Fifth, the United States has since 2001 offered a $25 million reward for any information leading to the capture or killing of bin Laden. But this reward offer has produced no such information, even though Pakistan has many desperately poor people, only about half of whom have been supportive of bin Laden.

Testimonial Evidence that Bin Laden Is Dead

In addition to this objective evidence, we had considerable testimony in 2002, from people in position to know, that bin Laden was dead, or probably so. These people included:
• President Musharraf of Pakistan;

• Dale Watson, the head of the FBI’s counterterrorism unit;

• Oliver North, who said: “I'm certain that Osama is dead. . . And so are all the other guys I stay in touch with”;

• President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan;

• Sources within Israeli intelligence, who said that any new messages from bin Laden were “probably fabrications”;

• Sources within Pakistani intelligence, who “confirmed the death of . . . Osama Bin Laden” and “attributed the reasons behind Washington's hiding news on the death of Osama Bin Laden to the desire of the hawks of the American administration to use the issue of al-Qaida and international terrorism to invade Iraq.”
For this reason, perhaps, the stories about the demise of bin Laden largely came to an end in the latter part of 2002, when the United States was gearing up for its attack on Iraq. From then until now, there have been few such stories.

Recently, however, two former intelligence officers have spoken out. In October 2008, former CIA case officer Robert Baer suggested in passing during an interview on National Public Radio that bin Laden was no longer among the living. When Baer was asked about this, he said: “Of course he’s dead.”

In March of 2009, former Foreign Service officer Angelo Codevilla published an essay in the American Spectator entitled “Osama bin Elvis.” Explaining his title, Codevilla wrote: “Seven years after Osama bin Laden's last verifiable appearance among the living, there is more evidence for Elvis's presence among us than for his.”

This is an excellent article, with only one serious flaw. In 2007, Benazir Bhutto, being interviewed by David Frost, referred to Omar Sheikh as “the man who murdered Osama bin Laden.” Codevilla cited this statement as further evidence that bin Laden is dead. But Bhutto had simply misspoken: She had meant to say “the man who murdered Daniel Pearl,” which is the standard way of referring to Omar Sheikh. That she misspoke was shown the next day, when she told CNN: “I don’t think General Musharaf personally knows where Osama bin Laden is.” Ten days later, speaking to NPR, she reported having asked a policeman assigned to guard her house: “Shouldn’t you be looking for Osama bin Laden?” This flaw aside, Codevilla’s article provides good support for his claim that the widespread belief in bin Laden’s continued existence is not backed up by evidence. "




there i took this from different web sites, there are only facts with their sources , no speculations. at least now you have both sides of the story (and excuse my english its not my first language)
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Lizzzle
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(Original post by cooper21)

x
Show links to where your sources from.

Firstly, Pakistans president saying that he "thinks" OBL is "probably" dead. Why? Because two Dialysis machines were stolen... right okay, that proves he died, right? Wrong that's not a fact, that's an opinion. Of course many people thought he was dead all of this time. But that's not a fact.

Secondly
An Afghan Taleban official announced his death but asked to be anonymous? It was a quiet and peaceful death, his gravestone was unmarked and it is unlikely to find any traces of him. How convenient is that? And why was an Egyptian newspaper publishing this? Why didn't he go to Al-Jazeera I mean Al-Qaeda regularly went to Al-Jazeera to get their messages across. Losing their leader is a big loss, yet no one has said anything since.

Third
"Bin Laden appears to be dead" but no proof? That's not worth reading.
What is Tribune.com? Another useless website seemingly
The same website is quoting the previous source - which said that OBL died of lug failures, but that source is stating he died from lung disease. Hmmmm that's plausible......not.

The removal of body guards isn't an indication that he has died.
Even celebrities replace their body guards, it happens.
The 25m reward means nothing because no "poor" man from Pakistan would have any chance of getting through his security. considering it took a team of Navy Seals from America to storm his compound.

Your last source still aren't facts, it's just a list of people who say that they "think Bin Laden is dead" where is the proof? Where is the evidence?
The only eye-witnesses are members from the Taleban

But his wife has gone and said that she saw the seals kill him. That's as good if not better than what you've provided here.

Give me facts.
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SirMasterKey
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(Original post by shenzys)
It never surfaced because it was an excuse for the US to remain in Afghanistan....
Interesting theory... And buried at sea? Come on how ridiculous, as loads of people have already mentioned that seems way too fishy and the reasons they gave? No country would want to keep his remains? And keep in line with the islamic faith? yah right. It makes me angry because of the lies told that we are made to believe, they want us to just accept everything they tell us as if we don't have minds of our own :mad:
:teehee:

-----
Of course if it was the case that he had been dead for years, you might have thought that Al-Qaeda would have taken revenge would you not as it is feared they might be now.

I also think that if you were to give him a grave somewhere on foriegn soil then it would have become a shrine to terrorists. The US were acting in their own interests with this (as always).
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cooper21
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(Original post by Lizzzle)
Show links to where your sources from.

Firstly, Pakistans president saying that he "thinks" OBL is "probably" dead. Why? Because two Dialysis machines were stolen... right okay, that proves he died, right? Wrong that's not a fact, that's an opinion. Of course many people thought he was dead all of this time. But that's not a fact.

Secondly
An Afghan Taleban official announced his death but asked to be anonymous? It was a quiet and peaceful death, his gravestone was unmarked and it is unlikely to find any traces of him. How convenient is that? And why was an Egyptian newspaper publishing this? Why didn't he go to Al-Jazeera I mean Al-Qaeda regularly went to Al-Jazeera to get their messages across. Losing their leader is a big loss, yet no one has said anything since.

Third
"Bin Laden appears to be dead" but no proof? That's not worth reading.
What is Tribune.com? Another useless website seemingly
The same website is quoting the previous source - which said that OBL died of lug failures, but that source is stating he died from lung disease. Hmmmm that's plausible......not.

The removal of body guards isn't an indication that he has died.
Even celebrities replace their body guards, it happens.
The 25m reward means nothing because no "poor" man from Pakistan would have any chance of getting through his security. considering it took a team of Navy Seals from America to storm his compound.

Your last source still aren't facts, it's just a list of people who say that they "think Bin Laden is dead" where is the proof? Where is the evidence?
The only eye-witnesses are members from the Taleban

But his wife has gone and said that she saw the seals kill him. That's as good if not better than what you've provided here.

Give me facts.

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/
as for worldtribune.com its pretty reliable in my opinion

Well the facts are that :
1. Laden had kidney failure.
2. The true videos of him show him weak and sickly
3. he ordered/stole kidney dialysis machines , including one for his personal use
4. No actual evidence that hes alive since end of 2001
5. Was hiding in the mountains end of 2001
6. it is medically impossible to stay alive without the dialysis machine when you have what he had
7. it is physically impossible to use the machine while running and hiding , living in those moutains


as for you questions,
"An Afghan Taleban official announced his death but asked to be anonymous? It was a quiet and peaceful death, his gravestone was unmarked and it is unlikely to find any traces of him. How convenient is that?" the anonymous part is pretty obvious so i wont answer that. then again, in my opinion, this is as good as " we disposed of the body in less than an hour because we needed to respect Islam traditions"
i cant answer the rest because i dont know. but then you cannot answer those questions either :
-where is evidence that he was still alive ?
-if he was still alive , how could he have escaped for 10 years and then miraculously found 60 miles away from Islamabad (knowing that Pakistani intelligence knows everything that happens in their country , and knowing that to them Laden died years ago) ?
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Lizzzle
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(Original post by cooper21)
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/
as for worldtribune.com its pretty reliable in my opinion

Well the facts are that :
1. Laden had kidney failure.
2. The true videos of him show him weak and sickly
3. he ordered/stole kidney dialysis machines , including one for his personal use
4. No actual evidence that hes alive since end of 2001
5. Was hiding in the mountains end of 2001
6. it is medically impossible to stay alive without the dialysis machine when you have what he had
7. it is physically impossible to use the machine while running and hiding , living in those moutains


as for you questions,
"An Afghan Taleban official announced his death but asked to be anonymous? It was a quiet and peaceful death, his gravestone was unmarked and it is unlikely to find any traces of him. How convenient is that?" the anonymous part is pretty obvious so i wont answer that. then again, in my opinion, this is as good as " we disposed of the body in less than an hour because we needed to respect Islam traditions"
i cant answer the rest because i dont know. but then you cannot answer those questions either :
-where is evidence that he was still alive ?
-if he was still alive , how could he have escaped for 10 years and then miraculously found 60 miles away from Islamabad (knowing that Pakistani intelligence knows everything that happens in their country , and knowing that to them Laden died years ago) ?
So these websites reported on his death, but major media corporations (Fox, BBC etc) didn't?
When Bush in 2006 said that he was going to find OBL, nobody actually told him that he was dead? Although his death was all factual... right.

You say he had all of these ailments and he "appeared weak" but yet no medical proof aside from a few stolen dialysis machines.
There's no evidence that he's been alive since 2001 true, he was on the run - thats the point?
There's no evidence that he's been dead since 2001 either - but the US officials have evidence of this.
Of course it's medically impossible without the aid of a dialysis machine - but you have no medical records of his liver damage, no medical reports nothing. So there's no proof he actually had liver damage is there?


They disposed of the body within 24 hours to comply with Islamic tradition - they also washed the body and made sure a prayer was met. He was given a sea burial because there was no suitable land alternative, Saudi Arabia refused to take his remains, therefore there was no suitable land alternative.


He was on the run - the point is to evade all suspicion so of course there's little evidence of him being alive.
You have no evidence of his death aside from opinions. Also you have no proof or pictures.

And it is ridiculous that he was only 60miles away from the Pakistani capital, but everyone thought he was living in the Afghan mountains - if he set up in a wealthy suburb in a major city in Asia he evades suspicion as well, surely?

You still haven't even said HOW he died - is it lung failure? Kidney disease? Your sources dont add up.

Try again.
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C_B_C
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(Original post by Lizzzle)
I can't believe how many people are actually this deluded on this website.
It actually baffles my brain.

You say that this is all fake and he media is lying to us.

Yet the media aren't the ones saying he died - Obama, Hilary Clinton, the American armed forces and pretty much every leader of countries in the free world are - the media are just reporting it, which is their job, is it not?

You say that I shouldn't believe everything I read.
Okay - but they also have videos of the compound with blood splattered on the floor.
What do you and your conspiracy theories have? Oh... things that I can read. How contradictory is that.

You say he's been dead for years and it's "fishy" how there's no pictures of his body and that he's buried at sea.
Well... if he's been dead for years and you knew about it - why don't you have any pictures either? And how did he die? Who killed him?
Where's YOUR evidence?
Yaaaay, someone with common sense on TSR.

Edit: Wow... neg rep for this. This is why I don't like democracy.
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andygcfc
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Inb4 2Pac, Jacko and Elvis......
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ijaz
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(Original post by Lizzzle)
I never said that it was his blood, but it's clearly blood.
And if you've seen the videos you can clearly see inside the building, as well as the outside inside the compound.
He lived in the compound, and the videos and google map shows 3 stories, with only one wall for windows - north facing I believe. Members of the public in the surrounding area hadn't seen any activity in the house and assumed it was abandoned with only the occasional individual coming in and out infrequently.
How would they have pics? When people around the area had no clue anyone even lived inside the house?
And his body was offered up to Saudi Arabia for them to bury, but they rejected it they didn't want his remains. According to Islamic religion he has to be buried within 24 hours, and if there is "no suitable land alternative" he should be buried in the sea. Considering the country of his birth didn't want to bury him in their soil - thats grounds for no suitable land alternative right? With time running out there's not much else they could do without breaking Islamic teaching and potentially causing even more problems.
Suggest an alternative since you know all the answers.

Of course there are pictures and videos, whether or not they will be seen by the general public we'll have to wait and see.

But you and these other conspiracy theorists who say he's been dead for years are offering no alternative other than "dont believe everything you read"
until you yourself can give me some evidence and not some sceptical comment on the media and the government you sound deluded.
false islamic religion doesnt say anything about burial at sea.
i can guarantee you that as a muslim
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lovehearts_x
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(Original post by shenzys)
... And buried at sea?...that seems way too fishy
:awesome:
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cooper21
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(Original post by Lizzzle)
So these websites reported on his death, but major media corporations (Fox, BBC etc) didn't?
When Bush in 2006 said that he was going to find OBL, nobody actually told him that he was dead? Although his death was all factual... right.

You say he had all of these ailments and he "appeared weak" but yet no medical proof aside from a few stolen dialysis machines.
There's no evidence that he's been alive since 2001 true, he was on the run - thats the point?
There's no evidence that he's been dead since 2001 either - but the US officials have evidence of this.
Of course it's medically impossible without the aid of a dialysis machine - but you have no medical records of his liver damage, no medical reports nothing. So there's no proof he actually had liver damage is there?


They disposed of the body within 24 hours to comply with Islamic tradition - they also washed the body and made sure a prayer was met. He was given a sea burial because there was no suitable land alternative, Saudi Arabia refused to take his remains, therefore there was no suitable land alternative.


He was on the run - the point is to evade all suspicion so of course there's little evidence of him being alive.
You have no evidence of his death aside from opinions. Also you have no proof or pictures.

And it is ridiculous that he was only 60miles away from the Pakistani capital, but everyone thought he was living in the Afghan mountains - if he set up in a wealthy suburb in a major city in Asia he evades suspicion as well, surely?

You still haven't even said HOW he died - is it lung failure? Kidney disease? Your sources dont add up.

Try again.
Well actually Bush said in 2006 that Bin laden "was not a top priority" . Of course it was convenient for his little Afganistan and Iraq wars to forge videos and pretend Laden wasnt dead..

As for his medical records, no i dont have it but then again how could I as its part of a medical secret ? Its common knowledge that he had kidney problems , even Bush or Obama would say that. it was on the news BBC , FOX, CNN, even in France. it was on TV so i cant find a record of that but i found newspapers :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001...stan.terrorism
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...182523,00.html (first paragraph)
i have another link to "Le Figaro " (as they were the first one to discover it ) but its in French

"They disposed of the body within 24 hours to comply with Islamic tradition - they also washed the body and made sure a prayer was met. He was given a sea burial because there was no suitable land alternative, Saudi Arabia refused to take his remains, therefore there was no suitable land alternative.
" well do you have proof of this ? pictures ?

Kidneys and lungs are related in health, disease and in the human body so a kidney failure might cause a lung problem its a medical fact. so has he had kidney problems we can assume the disease started there, but where did it spread cannot be known without an autopsy. We' can sum it up as " he died of kidney failure" .
Try again.
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Lizzzle
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(Original post by ijaz)
false islamic religion doesnt say anything about burial at sea.
i can guarantee you that as a muslim

I'm not a muslim and i'm not going to get into a religious debate.

You can't guarantee that however as I have various muslim friends who have said that burial at sea is acceptable if there is no "suitable land alternative" which is what I said.
Nobody was willing to take his body, including his country of origin
America certainly wasn't going to hold his remains which stands as grounds for suitable burial.

Also the US Government and Military consulted many Islamic experts on what is an appropriate method of burial as they evaluated many options they could take if he did die.
I can't remember his name but he made a speech at the White House yesterday stating this.
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Lizzzle
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(Original post by C_B_C)
Yaaaay, someone with common sense on TSR.
Common sense is harder to find on this site than OBL



.... bad joke
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Bi0logical
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Definetely something fishy, first they said the woman (wife) was used as a Human shield and died but now they sayin' she was not used as a human shield and was only shot in the leg. HMMMM?
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suis-je bovvered?
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(Original post by shenzys)
It never surfaced because it was an excuse for the US to remain in Afghanistan....
Interesting theory... And buried at sea? Come on how ridiculous, as loads of people have already mentioned that seems way too fishy and the reasons they gave? No country would want to keep his remains? And keep in line with the islamic faith? yah right. It makes me angry because of the lies told that we are made to believe, they want us to just accept everything they tell us as if we don't have minds of our own :mad:
Oh Thank God I'm not the only one who thinks this...
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ijaz
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(Original post by Lizzzle)
I'm not a muslim and i'm not going to get into a religious debate.

You can't guarantee that however as I have various muslim friends who have said that burial at sea is acceptable if there is no "suitable land alternative" which is what I said.
Nobody was willing to take his body, including his country of origin
America certainly wasn't going to hold his remains which stands as grounds for suitable burial.

Also the US Government and Military consulted many Islamic experts on what is an appropriate method of burial as they evaluated many options they could take if he did die.
I can't remember his name but he made a speech at the White House yesterday stating this.
they consulted many islamic experts yeh right biggest load of tosh ive heard.
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Hippysnake
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I agree. When Saddam was found, his face was plastered all over the tabloids. American dangled their prize in the face of the world audience. There's absolutely no reason from them not to do so again with Bin Laden.

The guy's been dead for yonks.
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(Original post by Mad Cat Lady)
Uh yeh you people seem to be ignoring the fact i said "Why would he lie to us FOR NO REASON?" I know presidents lie, I'm not thick, but they always have a reason, theres NO reason why he would randomly say it now if he had been dead for years, it ultimately doesn't make much of a difference WHEN he died over the last 10 years....

Also, sorry if this makes me "drugged" or whatever, but I trust BBC News more than your ridiculous unsupported conspiracies. Were you there when it happened? Do you have military intelligence contacts?

YOU GET REAL!
There is a reason, next year is the election, this is the beginning of his campaign to stay as president. Theres nothing gun toting Texans like more than "I just shot a terrorist... in the face!"
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