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Clever people in the navy/armed forces...... is it really worth it?? watch

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    (Original post by Raptor)
    I couldn't care less about electronics/computing - I like speed and feeling G force.
    you said with the exception of oxbridge grads- so i ask what about Imperial grads? Especially seeing as though they have the highest average starting salary, 3k more than LSE.
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    (Original post by futureaussiecto)
    you said with the exception of oxbridge grads- so i ask what about Imperial grads? Especially seeing as though they have the highest average starting salary, 3k more than LSE.
    I think you have missed the point here. We couldn't give a **** about the wages. Thats not why we join the forces. We get enough to live comfortably and thats good enough. The major benefit we have is not being stuck in a **** job all our lives or fighting for contracts to try and get your annual bonus!
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    (Original post by big_pd)
    I think you have missed the point here. We couldn't give a **** about the wages. Thats not why we join the forces. We get enough to live comfortably and thats good enough. The major benefit we have is not being stuck in a **** job all our lives or fighting for contracts to try and get your annual bonus!

    and i think you missed my point, i was seeing whether they would class imperial along with oxbridge.
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    Figures that make claims about individual departmental out puts are usually pretty worthless unless taken over a very long period of time. We could enter into the debate about which Unis are better, but it has been done thousands of times before and can be found on many other forums on TSR. Suffice to say, most people who are bothered about these things, know what the Uni rankings are for the subject they are interested in.

    The fact is that these figures are all averages, and you are not likely to perform as an average, but as an individual. If you are a star student on an even half decent course, you should be able to get yourself a well paid job. Conversely, if you are a complete plank, you probably won't get a decent job, Imperial, UCL or wherever. You should be able to work past these issues about course/Uni. There are a myriad other things that go into getting a decent job after Uni, the departmental rep is only a very small part of that. The main things are in your control - getting a decent degree while enjoying life and your subject.

    Returning to the OP, the fact that may have been deduced by now is that the pay in the Armed Forces is not stellar, but it is pretty good, and there are perks, and well as downsides. The real point is that serving in the Armed Forces is highly vocational, people do it because they want to, the money plays little or no part in their decision. If you just want the pay, don't bother with the Armed Forces; you won't get through the training anyway, if money is your only/main motivation.
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    (Original post by futureaussiecto)
    and i think you missed my point, i was seeing whether they would class imperial along with oxbridge.
    I don't think anyone really cares if they would put imperial alongside oxbridge and even less about which uni has the highest average graduate wage.
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    (Original post by futureaussiecto)
    and i think you missed my point, i was seeing whether they would class imperial along with oxbridge.

    Why are you bothered what 'they' think? If you are worried about your salary, then you need to find out what the employer you want to work for thinks. We have already long ago discussed what the Armed Forces position on degrees is.

    In general, ie day to day life, Imperial is not classed along with Oxbridge. Talking specifically about Engineering, it may get closer. Talk specifically about departments, and those who know the individual academic staff concerned might be able to say that fluid mechanics is particularly strong in one place over another at the moment, or such and such a place has a strong rep for aeronautical engineering - but these things change with staff movements, budgets etc and are never static for long.

    So where you 'class' a course or Uni depends on the context of the people who you are asking or trying to impress. The Armed Forces generally isn't that impressed with any specific places or courses, it just ticks a box, degree/no degree.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Why are you bothered what 'they' think? If you are worried about your salary, then you need to find out what the employer you want to work for thinks. We have already long ago discussed what the Armed Forces position on degrees is.

    In general, ie day to day life, Imperial is not classed along with Oxbridge. Talking specifically about Engineering, it may get closer. Talk specifically about departments, and those who know the individual academic staff concerned might be able to say that fluid mechanics is particularly strong in one place over another at the moment, or such and such a place has a strong rep for aeronautical engineering - but these things change with staff movements, budgets etc and are never static for long.

    So where you 'class' a course or Uni depends on the context of the people who you are asking or trying to impress. The Armed Forces generally isn't that impressed with any specific places or courses, it just ticks a box, degree/no degree.
    that last part, i personally think going to oxbridge does push you up the ladder.

    Also if you look in my other post about Information Systems Engineer officers, it states on the RN website that you will get promotion/higher rank/pay with reference to your degree which basically means "if you went to a gd uni you will move up the ladder faster than someone from Thames Valley

    Uni"http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.4997

    "Promotion
    As an Engineer (Information Systems) Officer, you will join at a more senior rank than other Officers. The standard of your degree will increase your initial seniority."


    That is the section where what university you attended DOES matter, which contradicts everything all you lot are saying.
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    (Original post by futureaussiecto)
    that last part, i personally think going to oxbridge does push you up the ladder.

    Also if you look in my other post about Information Systems Engineer officers, it states on the RN website that you will get promotion/higher rank/pay with reference to your degree which basically means "if you went to a gd uni you will move up the ladder faster than someone from Thames Valley

    Uni"http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.4997

    "Promotion
    As an Engineer (Information Systems) Officer, you will join at a more senior rank than other Officers. The standard of your degree will increase your initial seniority."


    That is the section where what university you attended DOES matter, which contradicts everything all you lot are saying.
    Actually your talking ****! You are correct in that engineering graduates join as a higher rank than general service graduates but it makes no difference as to what uni you went to, or whether you got a first or a third! After you have joined the promotion is based on your on the job performance rather than your degree pass. A person with a third from a less well recognised uni well may go on to be a better officer than a chap with a first from oxford.

    And before you try to back chat and make a fool out of yourself my father worked at AIB for 5 years and was senior careers officer for the Navy and thats come from him!!!
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    (Original post by futureaussiecto)
    The standard of your degree will increase your initial seniority.
    That means 1st, 2:1, 2:2 etc, not where you got the degree from.
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    (Original post by DPM)
    That means 1st, 2:1, 2:2 etc, not where you got the degree from.
    I think this refers more to whether it's a Batchelor or Masters degree; masters getting an extra years seniority.
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    This thead is bull****.

    Look, the Military is an elite institution that can pick and choose the best that University system produces, and does so. More people apply to be a Pilot in the forces than do for most grad schemes with the various city firms (deloitte etc.) because it is fundamentally a better, more challenging, more rewarding job. Based on my experience of UASs alone, most aircrew in the RAF could walk into city jobs on double the money; that's the kind of calibre people that the military attracts. Guys were coming out of Oxford with 1st's in Physics / Engineering / PPE and turning doen massive salaries in the city to get commissions as Pilots - NOTHING COMPARES.
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    (Original post by big_pd)
    Actually your talking ****! You are correct in that engineering graduates join as a higher rank than general service graduates but it makes no difference as to what uni you went to, or whether you got a first or a third! After you have joined the promotion is based on your on the job performance rather than your degree pass. A person with a third from a less well recognised uni well may go on to be a better officer than a chap with a first from oxford.

    And before you try to back chat and make a fool out of yourself my father worked at AIB for 5 years and was senior careers officer for the Navy and thats come from him!!!
    thats why it was stated when harry said he wanted to be in the household cavalry, that the latter was formed mainly of oxbridge graduates in the newspaper........... its hardly something one would exaggerate.
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    Good point, because the newspapers never exaggerate :eek:
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    (Original post by futureaussiecto)
    thats why it was stated when harry said he wanted to be in the household cavalry, that the latter was formed mainly of oxbridge graduates in the newspaper........... its hardly something one would exaggerate.
    Are you joking? Word on the parade square was that he wanted to be an infanteer! Only went into Hcav due to family ties etc. Then again I may have only overheard what I heard a friend of a friend who knows someone that works on the grapevine heard.
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    (Original post by Raptor)
    I think this refers more to whether it's a Batchelor or Masters degree; masters getting an extra years seniority.
    (Original post by big_pd)
    After you have joined the promotion is based on your on the job performance rather than your degree pass.
    Yes; your promotion after you have joined. Your initial seniority depends on your qualifications; a 3 year degree starts you as Plt Off level 5, then after IOT you find youself as a Fg Off level 7 or something like that, you move up a level every year and on reaching 9 you're promoted to Flt Lt level 1.

    Without a degree, it's different, and with a 4 year degree you'd start as a higher Fg Off level and spend less time before Flt Lt.

    With a lot of engineering experience you may well start after IOT as a level 3 Flt lt.

    I've written many a thread on pay and seniority when at IOT and after; search.
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    A A3 will suffice for me. Black, ofcourse.
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    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    I was simply asking how going to Uni could make you a better pilot. I do accept your point about how it helps you sit in a classroom and absorb whatever is required, no matter how mundane or irrelivent it may appear
    The self-answering question. A mature, intelligent person with the ability to absorb information and stick out a scheme of training is better. Training is all about your ability to absorb information.

    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    Just wondering, if you're chopped at a late stage in your FJ training would you still be dropped to RW then ME? If your dropped from ME, would you be offered perhaps another branch, say groundcrew? Just seeing as you've proven yourself to be a good Officer having passed through Cranwell, it'd be a shame to just chuck you out the RAF?
    You don't get offered anything; you're allowed to compete for reselection if you leave your branch. You may have passed IOT, but then again everyone does, so you may not necessarily be a better bet for, say, ATCO than some bloke off the street. Whether or not you're offered another flying job depends on why you were chopped.

    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    Atleast he isn't scared to go against the grain and say what he actually thinks. A very good quality, in my humble opinion.
    Not in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary of his opinion; that's more stubborness and pig-headedness than an ability to stick up for yourself.

    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    Nah, I don't dish out apologies. On here or out there. I accept that some will think I'm very arrogant, slightly cocky, and almost certainly controversial. But nah, I wouldn't have said common sense; admitting defeat only leads to someone gaining confidence/ the upper hand - and I don't like that. I know most will totally disagree with this, just a little insight into my personality.
    ... which makes your personality sound exceptionally immature and rather incompatible with becoming a military officer. You never apologise because you believe it lets someone else "gain the upper hand?" How phenomenally childish. I and all my colleagues tend to apologise when we've made a mistake or inconvenienced others; certainly we're quick to own up and apologise if we cause problems in the air.

    There are a lot of confident pilots, there are actually fairly few arrogant, cocky or controversial ones.
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    The self-answering question. A mature, intelligent person with the ability to absorb information and stick out a scheme of training is better. Training is all about your ability to absorb information.

    You don't get offered anything; you're allowed to compete for reselection if you leave your branch. You may have passed IOT, but then again everyone does, so you may not necessarily be a better bet for, say, ATCO than some bloke off the street. Whether or not you're offered another flying job depends on why you were chopped.

    Not in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary of his opinion; that's more stubborness and pig-headedness than an ability to stick up for yourself.

    ... which makes your personality sound exceptionally immature and rather incompatible with becoming a military officer. You never apologise because you believe it lets someone else "gain the upper hand?" How phenomenally childish. I and all my colleagues tend to apologise when we've made a mistake or inconvenienced others; certainly we're quick to own up and apologise if we cause problems in the air.

    There are a lot of confident pilots, there are actually fairly few arrogant, cocky or controversial ones.
    Ehh, ok, I see what you mean, kind of.

    Right oh.

    Lol, comes naturally to me; the stubborness. I admit to being all of these said traits, but don't see it as a down-fall, or bad part of my personality. Atleast, I know what I am, and if asked, I can say so. I guess this shows I'm honest too?

    Oh, I admit to being wrong, sorry I didn't make it clear. I will admit to being wrong, if and only if I understand, where I was wrong. I don't apologise for believing in myself and what I said to be as right as the next person however. Well, phenomenally childish in your opinion.. good thing I don't listen to other peopes opinions of me. Live life how I want to live it, open to critism, but can't promise it'll make the slightest difference to my attitude. Ah well, I'll be part of that 'minority' then.
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    I think what Wzz is trying to suggest is that you will be part of the majority unless you change your approach. The minority are succesful in becoming RAF Officers, the majority fail.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    I think what Wzz is trying to suggest is that you will be part of the majority unless you change your approach. The minority are succesful in becoming RAF Officers, the majority fail.
    'that minority': successful, arrogant pilots. I don't fancy becoming an RAF Officer anyway :p:, it seemed appealing, temporarily, but the Navy is where my heart is set.

    I know going to the AIB, acting like a prat and not listening to what other people say etc, is a dead-cert way of failing, which is what I intend not to do. I'm not trying to justify being arrogant in a smarmy sense, but I am arrogant; in a confident in my own ability sense. If that makes sense.
 
 
 
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