what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university Watch

Lawz-
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(Original post by *Katie*)
I'm British - live near London.
Oh - I thought you said people were trying to get you to join the caribbean society.
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cottonmouth
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(Original post by Lawz-)
Oh - I thought you said people were trying to get you to join the caribbean society.
She wouldn't have to be from a Caribbean Island to join though, would she?

Lawz, i must say, that in regards to the whole USA/UK part of the debate, you can't just swat away the crux- "outside of the predjudice, tension and conflict...." those things are precisely WHY the things were acceptable under the circumstances in America! Of course it wouldn't be acceptable to have a "black only" univeristy anywhere- unless of course, they were an oppressed group who could not attend university any other way. You can't ignore the deeper stuff just to say, in basic principle, it's wrong to have a blacks only uni. That is just way too simplistic for my liking.

It wouldn't be acceptable for a "blacks only" university. We all accept that. If blacks were banned from unis in Britain all of a sudden- and so a philanthropist set up a uni for black people to attend, then it would be a good thing.

In any case, it's already established that non-blacks can still enter all the groups and things we have talked about. So what problem remains?
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Lawz-
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
She wouldn't have to be from a Caribbean Island to join though, would she?
No. But if people are actively recruiting her that is a possible indication she might be. :rolleyes:

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Lawz, i must say, that in regards to the whole USA/UK part of the debate, you can't just swat away the crux- "outside of the predjudice, tension and conflict...." those things are precisely WHY the things were acceptable under the circumstances in America!
Were. Precisely. Im talking about the present.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Of course it wouldn't be acceptable to have a "black only" univeristy anywhere- unless of course, they were an oppressed group who could not attend university any other way. You can't ignore the deeper stuff just to say, in basic principle, it's wrong to have a blacks only uni. That is just way too simplistic for my liking.
Its simplistic because you are ignoring what I said. As usual.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
It wouldn't be acceptable for a "blacks only" university. We all accept that. If blacks were banned from unis in Britain all of a sudden- and so a philanthropist set up a uni for black people to attend, then it would be a good thing.
Good lord - stop harping on. Im not talking about THEN - Im talking about now.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
In any case, it's already established that non-blacks can still enter all the groups and things we have talked about. So what problem remains?
No it isnt. They cant get money from the scholarship fund, and they cant join the fraternities I mentioned. So seemingly a problem DOES remain doesnt it?
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Goddess Fury
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Q:what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university
A:Why not start one and find out?(if you try it at Leeds university it will lead to a witch-hunt carried out by a certain fat ethnic, you have been warned!!)
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L i b
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It seems fair enough that if you are wanting funding from a students' union for a society then you must be open to accepting all their members as members of your club. After all, it would be a bit dodgy having your Union/Guild pay to support societies that very few people were eligable to join.

If you want to set up a White Man's Club or an Off-Colour Jokes Society you can do it, just don't expect the support of a body that is supposed to represent all students at a certain university.
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cottonmouth
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(Original post by Lawz-)
No. But if people are actively recruiting her that is a possible indication she might be. :rolleyes:



Were. Precisely. Im talking about the present.



Its simplistic because you are ignoring what I said. As usual.



Good lord - stop harping on. Im not talking about THEN - Im talking about now.



No it isnt. They cant get money from the scholarship fund, and they cant join the fraternities I mentioned. So seemingly a problem DOES remain doesnt it?
Haha jesus. Hasnt the scholarship fund been explained away already? Unless you want to intefere with a philanthropists monetary wishes, then its fine that there are scholarships for blacks only. I wouldnt object to a white only fund either, though i would think it absurd, because we have to look at reasoning. Reason for a black fund- an incentice to get more black people to go to university, so they can get good jobs and be role models for future black kids. Common knowledge that only 30% of black boys get qualifications in the country, the other 70% leave with nothing. So you can see why such funds exist. As i said, so long as it isnt govenment- initiated, and is done by sole philanthropists, i don't object. The other example i used- a fund that pays for people who live in Baginton to go to uni- that discriminates against anyone not living in Baginton! So what, its one guys money, he doesnt have to rationalise why he spends it. You cant use these scholarships to argue double standards i society, because these individuals don't represent society. They act in their own interests. So i do not accept your scholarship issues. Whether its right or wrong to have a fund for one race, it isnt a societal double standard.

And the uni thing- it admits whites anyway, so that doesnt stand. The frats you tlk of- give me evidence. Argue the point about the difference between america and britain concerning black people without swatting them aside. Argue how this frat differs so greatly to a society, other than in name. Prove that literally only black people can join this frat. Show how this frat proves a societal double standard. You keep generally evading by saying, these thigns don't matter. They do.
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Lawz-
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
Haha jesus. Hasnt the scholarship fund been explained away already?
No. You may think it has. But it most certainly hasnt.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Unless you want to intefere with a philanthropists monetary wishes, then its fine that there are scholarships for blacks only.
Im begining to doubt your ability to grasp this. What you have just said is acomplete non sequitur. I may think its reprehensible to help people based on what race they are, but I may not advocate stepping in to stop it... is that clear and easy?

(Original post by cottonmouth)
I wouldnt object to a white only fund either, though i would think it absurd, because we have to look at reasoning. Reason for a black fund- an incentice to get more black people to go to university, so they can get good jobs and be role models for future black kids. Common knowledge that only 30% of black boys get qualifications in the country, the other 70% leave with nothing. So you can see why such funds exist.
I would condemn each of them as racist. Socio economic circumstances are the biggest reasons that people in the US dont go to university. To single peopl eout as being worthy of your help because they happen to be black is racist.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
The other example i used- a fund that pays for people who live in Baginton to go to uni- that discriminates against anyone not living in Baginton! So what, its one guys money, he doesnt have to rationalise why he spends it.
So if I spend my money promoting my belief that blacks are inferior to whites? I have the RIGHt - but that's ok? I dont need to rationalise that?

(Original post by cottonmouth)
You cant use these scholarships to argue double standards i society, because these individuals don't represent society. They act in their own interests.
Huh? They arent part of society? Since when?

Plus - the point is that this sort of scholarship is fully accepted as bieng ok. If it were white one, people would criticise it. That is a double standard.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
So i do not accept your scholarship issues. Whether its right or wrong to have a fund for one race, it isnt a societal double standard.
Oh - so society only includes government programs? I cant even begin to explain this all over again. :rolleyes: :

The SOCIETAL DOUBLE STANDARD COMES WITH THE FACT THAT ONE ATTRACTS NO SOCIETAL CRITICISM WHILE THE OTHER WOULD. Ok?

(Original post by cottonmouth)
The frats you tlk of- give me evidence.
I gave the link or ready - scroll the hell up.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Argue the point about the difference between america and britain concerning black people without swatting them aside.
What?

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Argue how this frat differs so greatly to a society, other than in name. Prove that literally only black people can join this frat.
I have a frien who is part of one.. THEY ARE ALL BLACK FRATERNITIES.

Jesus = just click on some of the links.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Show how this frat proves a societal double standard.
If you had an all white frat - people would complain.

An all black one - they dont.

Pretty easy really.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
You keep generally evading by saying, these thigns don't matter. They do.
What on EARTH are you on about? When did I say ANYTHING didnt matter????
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cottonmouth
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(Original post by Lawz-)
No. You may think it has. But it most certainly hasnt.



Im begining to doubt your ability to grasp this. What you have just said is acomplete non sequitur. I may think its reprehensible to help people based on what race they are, but I may not advocate stepping in to stop it... is that clear and easy?



I would condemn each of them as racist. Socio economic circumstances are the biggest reasons that people in the US dont go to university. To single peopl eout as being worthy of your help because they happen to be black is racist.



So if I spend my money promoting my belief that blacks are inferior to whites? I have the RIGHt - but that's ok? I dont need to rationalise that?



Huh? They arent part of society? Since when?

Plus - the point is that this sort of scholarship is fully accepted as bieng ok. If it were white one, people would criticise it. That is a double standard.



Oh - so society only includes government programs? I cant even begin to explain this all over again. :rolleyes: :

The SOCIETAL DOUBLE STANDARD COMES WITH THE FACT THAT ONE ATTRACTS NO SOCIETAL CRITICISM WHILE THE OTHER WOULD. Ok?



I gave the link or ready - scroll the hell up.



What?



I have a frien who is part of one.. THEY ARE ALL BLACK FRATERNITIES.

Jesus = just click on some of the links.



If you had an all white frat - people would complain.

An all black one - they dont.

Pretty easy really.



What on EARTH are you on about? When did I say ANYTHING didnt matter????
Lawz, i'm giving up on your complete failure to just grasp a few things. The one biggie is the REASONING BEHIND THE SCHOLARSHIPS OR FRATS OR UNIVERSITIES. Reasoning that makes it acceptable in harsher circumstances to take such action.

"Huh? They aren't part of society? Since when?"

I didn't say they weren't PART of society. I said they didn't represent society. They dont represent society as a whole. They aren't microcosms of the thoughts of general society.

I've said i wouldn't criticise a scholarship for poor white boys, because there are some for black boys. Noone with any intelligence o logic could argue against setting one up, because ones for black people only exist. Anyone who argued otherwise would be rightly told where to go. But what i would question is the NEED to set up a whites only scholarship, in a predominantly white country, where there sin't a problem with the amount of white people going to univeristy in ratiod comparison the the rest of the population, as there is with black boys. There are already funds for poor people- they get their fees paid for them by the government. The differecne is with the black scholarships- extra incentive is needed, beause of the massively disproportionate amount of black kids who don't get anythig out of school. That is the reasoning. But all the same, if a white scholarsip was set up, i couldnt logically complain, though i could argue against the need for it.

An all white frat? Im sure there are thousands of all-white frats actually. The reson they dont set one up, with a stipulation that it must be white-skins only? Because it would be dumb to do that in a predom white country, where such things exist ten-fold anyway. Like someone said earlier- imagine the idiocy of a univeristy in Africa setting up an "all black" frat or soc. What would be the need?

The dpuble standards you talk of dont exist in my opinion. There may be all black frats. There are also all-white frats. I'll bet with these all-black frats, its just one of those unwritten-rule type thing. I bet you anything that a white person could join "legally"- but they just wouldn't because it defeats the quaint object of such a grouping. There wont be any official rules saying that only a black person can join.

And anyway, with these frats, aren't they student-devised, not uni devised? These individuals are not microcosms of society.
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Lawz-
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
Lawz, i'm giving up on your complete failure to just grasp a few things. The one biggie is the REASONING BEHIND THE SCHOLARSHIPS OR FRATS OR UNIVERSITIES. Reasoning that makes it acceptable in harsher circumstances to take such action.


Mate, dont even bother trying to patronise me... its really rather ironic. I fully "grasp" your point. But it isnt to the purpose. I have already accepted MANY MANY posts ago that there may have been historical reasons for things... but I am ADDRESSING THE CURRENT PERPETUATION of them? OK?

(Original post by cottonmouth)
I didn't say they weren't PART of society. I said they didn't represent society. They dont represent society as a whole. They aren't microcosms of the thoughts of general society.


Thats entirely irrelevant to the point Im making.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
I've said i wouldn't criticise a scholarship for poor white boys, because there are some for black boys.


You may not, but most people would criticise a scholarship based on what your skin colour was.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Noone with any intelligence o logic could argue against setting one up, because ones for black people only exist.


Oh PLEASE - lots of people would argue against it - and they would be quite right to - want me to do a sample poll on here and ask – Would you object to a scholarship specifically only available to whites?
I can assure you the result is guaranteed.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Anyone who argued otherwise would be rightly told where to go.


Well I disagree - I think that to help people on the basis of race is racist. Im sorry you dont object to it.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
But what i would question is the NEED to set up a whites only scholarship, in a predominantly white country, where there sin't a problem with the amount of white people going to univeristy in ratiod comparison the the rest of the population, as there is with black boys.


THe REASON for that is not down to their race - its down to their socio-economic circumstances. If you look at the university place take up for blacks and whites in the lowest income bracket - the % is fairly similar.

You are being deceived by statistics that dont really support your contention because you ignore another possible cause.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
There are already funds for poor people- they get their fees paid for them by the government.


Not nearly enough it would seem.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
The differecne is with the black scholarships- extra incentive is needed, beause of the massively disproportionate amount of black kids who don't get anythig out of school.


Due to poverty - not due to their skin colour.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
That is the reasoning. But all the same, if a white scholarsip was set up, i couldnt logically complain, though i could argue against the need for it.


Well you would be supporting what most would see as a racist use of private funds.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
An all white frat? Im sure there are thousands of all-white frats actually.


If any of them SPECIFICALLY operate only for whites - then they are racist, and would be condemned.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
The reson they dont set one up, with a stipulation that it must be white-skins only? Because it would be dumb to do that in a predom white country, where such things exist ten-fold anyway.


And yet racists set up MANY all white clubs, frats etc etc in the past. Strange

(Original post by cottonmouth)
Like someone said earlier- imagine the idiocy of a univeristy in
(Original post by cottonmouth)
Africa setting up an "all black" frat or soc. What would be the need?


We arent talking about need - we are talking about the objectionability of it.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
The dpuble standards you talk of dont exist in my opinion. There may be all black frats. There are also all-white frats. I'll bet with these all-black frats, its just one of those unwritten-rule type thing.


You would lose your bet:

"Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. has supplied voice to the struggle of African-Americans and people of color around the world. Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter fraternity established for African-Americans, was founded at CornellUniversity in Ithaca."

Specifically FOR blacks and "people of colour"

Divisive and racist.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
I bet you anything that a white person could join "legally"- but they just wouldn't because it defeats the quaint object of such a grouping. There wont be any official rules saying that only a black person can join.


Once again - lost that bet.

(Original post by cottonmouth)
And anyway, with these frats, aren't they student-devised, not uni devised? These individuals are not microcosms of society.


Microcosm? Is that your word of the day? Once again you miss th epoint entirely - not to mention the fact that they get university funding and oversight. The POINT is that the double standard is NOT just the carrying on of the frat... the double standard is the lack of objection to it by MOST of society ... I have made this point numerous numerous times. I think ill just copy and paste this from now on.
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cottonmouth
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(Original post by Lawz-)

Mate, dont even bother trying to patronise me... its really rather ironic. I fully "grasp" your point. But it isnt to the purpose. I have already accepted MANY MANY posts ago that there may have been historical reasons for things... but I am ADDRESSING THE CURRENT PERPETUATION of them? OK?



Thats entirely irrelevant to the point Im making.



You may not, but most people would criticise a scholarship based on what your skin colour was.



Oh PLEASE - lots of people would argue against it - and they would be quite right to - want me to do a sample poll on here and ask – Would you object to a scholarship specifically only available to whites?
I can assure you the result is guaranteed.



Well I disagree - I think that to help people on the basis of race is racist. Im sorry you dont object to it.



THe REASON for that is not down to their race - its down to their socio-economic circumstances. If you look at the university place take up for blacks and whites in the lowest income bracket - the % is fairly similar.

You are being deceived by statistics that dont really support your contention because you ignore another possible cause.



Not nearly enough it would seem.



Due to poverty - not due to their skin colour.



Well you would be supporting what most would see as a racist use of private funds.



If any of them SPECIFICALLY operate only for whites - then they are racist, and would be condemned.



And yet racists set up MANY all white clubs, frats etc etc in the past. Strange



We arent talking about need - we are talking about the objectionability of it.



You would lose your bet:

"Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. has supplied voice to the struggle of African-Americans and people of color around the world. Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter fraternity established for African-Americans, was founded at CornellUniversity in Ithaca."

Specifically FOR blacks and "people of colour"

Divisive and racist.



Once again - lost that bet.



Microcosm? Is that your word of the day? Once again you miss th epoint entirely - not to mention the fact that they get university funding and oversight. The POINT is that the double standard is NOT just the carrying on of the frat... the double standard is the lack of objection to it by MOST of society ... I have made this point numerous numerous times. I think ill just copy and paste this from now on.
This can't continue, we keep both saying the same over and over, neither acceptig what the other is saying, so we'll agree to disagree.

"This isn't relevant to the point i'm making"- you aid to me in your previous post something along the lines of "what?they arent part of society?" in response to me saying they were representaive of society. SAo i was explaining myself further. If you don't want things that aren't relevent, then don't be pedantic, or dont misinterpret me, and i wont ave to bother explaining myself.

Yes, i know what the poll result would be. If the poll was "Given that scholarships for solely black people are available at the moment..." then things might be different.

You have decided to twist what i'm saying. I dont agree with the principle of an all- black scholarship, for the sake of skin colour. I agree with it because i see it as an incentive for black people to stay in education, considering the vast majority that do not. That isn't a racist notion. Being simple, and only looking at the face-value aspect- that it is for black skins only- won't let us progress any further, will it? Its about the reasoning. Its like an initiative. Right, how are we going to get more black boys to university, the stats are terrible. I know, lets set up a fund. That isnt racist. To BE RACIST, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE INTENTION OF WANTING TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ANOTHER ETHNIC GROUP. The primary reason of such scholarships is not to discriminate agains twhite people, but to get more black boys into universities.

That alpha-frat- interesting. I wonder what the authorities would say if a white guy tried to enter. And as i said before, thee are set up by students, who dont represent society as a whole. There isn't uproar from society because it is patentl clear that the reason they are set up is because of culture- the same reasons why societies in British unis are set up. Not because of literal skin colour. And hey, when was it set up? When the social situation for oppressed minorites was really bad. So just read the arguments about Howard uni again for contention
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poltroon
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(Original post by cottonmouth)

You have decided to twist what i'm saying. I dont agree with the principle of an all- black scholarship, for the sake of skin colour. I agree with it because i see it as an incentive for black people to stay in education, considering the vast majority that do not. That isn't a racist notion. Being simple, and only looking at the face-value aspect- that it is for black skins only- won't let us progress any further, will it? Its about the reasoning. Its like an initiative. Right, how are we going to get more black boys to university, the stats are terrible. I know, lets set up a fund. That isnt racist. To BE RACIST, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE INTENTION OF WANTING TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ANOTHER ETHNIC GROUP. The primary reason of such scholarships is not to discriminate agains twhite people, but to get more black boys into universities.
It is a racist notion and it is discriminatory. In my dictionary, to 'discriminate' is to treat people unfairly on the grounds of race, gender or age. In this case, by virtue of skin colour one may be eligible for a scholarship or one may not. Simply because the unfairness is aimed in favour of the Black ethnic group in no way makes it right.
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cottonmouth
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(Original post by poltroon)
It is a racist notion and it is discriminatory. In my dictionary, to 'discriminate' is to treat people unfairly on the grounds of race, gender or age. In this case, by virtue of skin colour one may be eligible for a scholarship or one may not. Simply because the unfairness is aimed in favour of the Black ethnic group in no way makes it right.
Yes, and that is the base principle, which i have already agreed with. But it isnt racist, when you look at societal reasoning for why such decisons are taken. There is no ill thought towards white people, who are already catered for well enough by a range of other scholarships, and of whom most don't scholarships anyway, since a high proportion already go to university. Dictioary definitions without any insight into the hows and whys won't get you many marks in an exam, will it?
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randdom
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I agree with what cottonmouth is saying out the scholarships, when it comes to futher education their are cirtain groups of people who are less likely to go to university in the UK this includes black people and people who have less money, there are also areas which have a low attendance of university. These groups all have incentives to encourage them to go to universities, I know that I was eligable for a one of payment from a fund because I went to school in Haringey. The fact that one is for students who are black is no more discrimatory than one for people in Haringey, Lawz can I ask you how you would encourage and increase in the number of black students who are going to university if not with a scholarship?
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(Original post by Lawz-)
And if such a society was set up for white culture, then it would be attackd by many as racist.

Hmmm so what would you say about the Gym Gym (Welsh society) at my university? Seeing that it's something like 98% white in Wales you could count this as a 'white society' but we don't look on it as racist. I don't agree that having non-exclusive societies that celebrate the cultures of different minority (or indeed majority) groups is wrong... being away from home and what you're used to, it's just nice to get to meet other people in a similar situation to you, who can identify with how you might be feeling so you know you're not alone.

As regards having a 'white society' in a place where whites are the minority (like Trinidad).. I think it would be fine to have one, if others were welcome to join,but tell me, what exactly would be white trinidadian culture (not counting whatever we've adopted from the States and other foreign countries)? If you could define that for me I would be well surprised. :rolleyes:
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(Original post by Phoenix_down)
Hmmm so what would you say about the Gym Gym (Welsh society) at my university? Seeing that it's something like 98% white in Wales you could count this as a 'white society' but we don't look on it as racist. I don't agree that having non-exclusive societies that celebrate the cultures of different minority (or indeed majority) groups is wrong... being away from home and what you're used to, it's just nice to get to meet other people in a similar situation to you, who can identify with how you might be feeling so you know you're not alone.

As regards having a 'white society' in a place where whites are the minority (like Trinidad).. I think it would be fine to have one, if others were welcome to join,but tell me, what exactly would be white trinidadian culture (not counting whatever we've adopted from the States and other foreign countries)? If you could define that for me I would be well surprised. :rolleyes:
THANK GOD FOR A SANE RESPONSE.

Lawz, come on, just accept the difference between the race situation in America and Britain. The origins of Howard University was to give oppurtunities to black people in educatio who were discrimintaed against in normal universities. You agree with this, but we'retalking about the present day.

1. Blacks are still disadvantaged when it comes to education and socio-economic status in America. 2. The University is open to all races - here your argument falls apart. It's just totally illogical to dispute this point. Of COURSE a historically black University, whose alumni is largely black and whose roots are in the civil rights movement are going to be proud of this. The fact is - whites can go too. Theres absolutely no discrimination involved. The political situation around race is totally different in America to Britain. It's too totally different standards. So EVEN IF you were right on this point, it WOULD NOT be an example of double standards compared to an Afro-Caribbean society at University.
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Cluedo89
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so are you saying their isnt a white culture then that only black people have somthing to be proud off.
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Phoenix_down
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It's such a shame Lawz that you make our country sound like a place where you have to run and hide if you're white when that's clearly not the case. I have white friends who don't nearly seem to have the same idea of the place as you do.. perhaps you get what you're looking for. If you think that people are out to get you just because you're different from the majority then eventually you'll find what you're so set on proving.

(Original post by Lawz-)
If that was referring to me you honestly have no fecking idea.

I grew up in the West Indies, where being white was a constant source of abuse, where people were attacked, etc etc...

Have I been harassed by police because Im white? Yes.

I dont really see how that makes me some old prvilieged and sheltered white man.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Phoenix_down
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(Original post by Cluedo89)
so are you saying their isnt a white culture then that only black people have somthing to be proud off.
Grrr.. how many times must this be said? I believe these societies are about celebrating different cultures not skin colour.. very important to make the distinction here. I don't know of any universities with a specifically named 'White Society', 'Black Society', or Yellow, Blue , Gray (for those who can't really fall into any category) for that matter. This is just bloody ridiculous. There is no problem with having a society which celebrates Caribbean, African, French, Italian, Welsh, American or whatever different culture - there's more to it than the colour of your skin.
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Atomik
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
Of course it wouldn't be acceptable to have a "black only" univeristy anywhere- unless of course, they were an oppressed group who could not attend university any other way.
Organised oppression against black people no longer happens. Is there still a need for UNCF? No.

Such groups should be designed to help POOR people, not people of a certain ethnicity.

Does UNCF cover upper-middle class blacks? Well-off blacks?

It wouldn't be acceptable for a "blacks only" university. We all accept that. If blacks were banned from unis in Britain all of a sudden- and so a philanthropist set up a uni for black people to attend, then it would be a good thing.
Yes, it would be a good thing. However, blacks are NOT banned from universities in America! Maybe they once were, but these problems have been resolved, meaning there is no need for groups such as the UNCF!
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Laika
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#140
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#140
(Original post by Cluedo89)
so are you saying their isnt a white culture then that only black people have somthing to be proud off.
No. I think using American terminology here is also confusing. 'White' is not a culture. 'Black' is not a culture.

However, in America, black is used interchangeably with African American, it's not exclusively a race term. It also applies to cultural values, which have been formed over the eras of slavery and the civil rights movement. So in a sense, the word 'black' in America applies to both culture and race. This occured because of repression of black being ON THE GROUNDS OF RACE by whites, leading to the formation of a cultural movement. It's like the the terms working class, feminism etc, but the term 'black' is labelled to it because it was race which brought about the cultural movement in the first place.

Since a culture aroud the term 'black' has been formed because of this, combined with the spread of American media, I think this is what causes the terms to become confused when people see 'black' as having a culture and 'white' not having culture. I think America has played a big role in this.
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