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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Why not?

    Is not mental and spiritual sustenance as important as physical?

    And besides, I eat the meat(all of it) I use the pelts, I personally find battery farming and the way meat is prepared in our soceity to be offensive, very few commerical meat suppliers meet the standards of care to an animal that I demand, so I don't eat meat that often, but a kill made by myself, to feed myself is a good kill, the Animal is respected and thanked, offered to the Gods, the meat goes to feed myself and others, and it's body is used in other things.

    The "Circle of Life"(And it's a beautiful cleche, don't be ashamed) is continued perfectly.
    Mental and spiritual sustenance can be gained by other ways and not at the expence of innocent (due to their lack of understanding) animals.

    I also find battery farming abhorrent. This is why I only eat meat from free range farms. I then know that the animal has has the best possible life and has been slaughtered in the humanest way. At least, this is what my butcher assures me, (though in the light of the horsemeat fiasco...:rolleyes:). (I had an argument on another thread about halal meat in which I put most of my points across there)
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    It does, and there is nothing wrong with this.


    The ingrained desire for propagation and defense, a sense of loyalty and more importantly honour.

    I have often pondered over why I feel this way, I even on many levels agree with the rational arguments presented by Vegetarians/Vegans and those who are against hunting, to the extent that I went Vegetarian for close to two years(I think I may actually still be a member of the TSR Vegi soc >.>) however ultimately however rational or seemingly moral such arguments and views were, it was contrary to what I genuinely felt and desired.

    And why do something which goes against my heart?

    Besides all of this, what else im I going to offer to the Aesir, battery farmed chickens? A vegtable stew?
    I wouldn't insult them that way.
    We appear to have fundamentally irreconcilable views regarding the following of rational arguments. I think your point regarding the Æsir is irrelevant here. In my opinion, as an intelligent species which is able to survive without killing other living creatures, hunting is a barbaric, unnecessary and baffling pursuit.
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    (Original post by Guru Jason)
    Mental and spiritual sustenance can be gained by other ways and not at the expence of innocent (due to their lack of understanding) animals.

    I also find battery farming abhorrent. This is why I only eat meat from free range farms. I then know that the animal has has the best possible life and has been slaughtered in the humanest way. At least, this is what my butcher assures me, (though in the light of the horsemeat fiasco...:rolleyes:). (I had an argument on another thread about halal meat in which I put most of my points across there)
    I find it hard to believe you think, an animal even in a free-range farm, has a better quality of life than one born and raised in the wild?
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    (Original post by la95)
    We appear to have fundamentally irreconcilable views regarding the following of rational arguments.
    Ah well, such things happen.
    What'cha gonna do?
    I think your point regarding the Æsir is irrelevant here.
    Would you mind saying why?
    (Also you used the crazy ae, I can never remember they Keypad shortcuts for all of these , the best I can do is get the á)

    In my opinion, as an intelligent species which is able to survive without killing other living creatures, hunting is a barbaric, unnecessary and baffling pursuit.
    Fair enough my friend, I understand where your coming from.
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    (Original post by Arnob204)
    Saying you'd physically assault someone who hunted foxes is bravado. No one is impressed.
    Hunting foxes with guns and hounds is one of the cruelest forms of hunting. I do not care what others think. I feel insulted that anyone could partake in such a 'sport' in the same way as if I saw someone beating a pet. The person who'd do such a thing done such as thing deserves punishment.
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    (Original post by Guru Jason)
    Hunting foxes with guns and hounds is one of the cruelest forms of hunting. I do not care what others think. I feel insulted that anyone could partake in such a 'sport' in the same way as if I saw someone beating a pet. The person who'd do such a thing done such as thing deserves punishment.
    Even I agree with this, for some reason Hound-Fox hunting doesn't sit well with me.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I find it hard to believe you think, an animal even in a free-range farm, has a better quality of life than one born and raised in the wild?
    I don't find it hard to imagine that animals on free range farms have less fear than thouse in the wild. Not quite domestication obviously but still. They know they will be fed, have shelter, free from preditors (till the end lol).
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Would you mind saying why?
    Because I believe that religion establishes its own circular, self-justifying moral framework which cannot be used as justification in a rational argument regarding moral behaviour.
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    (Original post by miser)
    I really don't understand this attitude. As if it is a consolation to the deer that you're going to make it into a nice warm fur coat.
    I don't believe it's about consoling the deer because as you say it won't help it. If you disagree with eating meat or fur clothing in general then obviously you will not think it makes a difference. However a lot of people think that eating meat is acceptable (myself included) and fewer but still many think fur is acceptable clothing (imo only acceptable if the animal is being slaughtered for meat anyway) in which case there is an important distinction between what is essentially mindless killing and one with a purpose (I do not see how a swift hunting kill is much worse than a captive life and kill).

    My approach is that every time you eat meet/use something an animal died for you should be aware of this fact as a lot of people don't seem to realise this. If people are aware of it and still choose to continue then that is fine but most people now just seem to think meat magically appears in supermarkets.
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    (Original post by Guru Jason)
    I don't find it hard to imagine that animals on free range farms have less fear than thouse in the wild. Not quite domestication obviously but still. They know they will be fed, have shelter, free from preditors (till the end lol).
    There is also a natural joy for the animal to be able to explore, roam free, gain territory, have a varied diet, mate the natural way, experience more of what it is to have a "life" yes that includes the natural and healthy fear of predators.

    The concept that Animals live in "constant" fear is a rather silly one and not one backed up by Biology either.
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    (Original post by la95)
    Because I believe that religion establishes its own circular, self-justifying moral framework which cannot be used as justification in a rational argument regarding moral behaviour.
    Ah well, it's pertienent to me as an individual.

    And we were discussing my individual reasons, so no factor should be ignored or discounted, even if you think it's an unfounded factor(for you) it's a factor that plays a genuine and active role in decision making for me.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Ah well, it's pertienent to me as an individual.

    And we were discussing my individual reasons, so no factor should be ignored or discounted, even if you think it's an unfounded factor(for you) it's a factor that plays a genuine and active role in decision making for me.
    That is fair enough; if you believe it to be a rational contribution to the discussion then of course it should be considered. However, as I do not share your beliefs, I cannot comment on it either way.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    There is also a natural joy for the animal to be able to explore, roam free, gain territory, have a varied diet, mate the natural way, experience more of what it is to have a "life" yes that includes the natural and healthy fear of predators.

    The concept that Animals live in "constant" fear is a rather silly one and not one backed up by Biology either.
    Maybe you're right with the wild expeirence. Though I feel that far as food goes, on a practical level, free range farming is kinder than hunting. Obviously in some parts of the world, such practice maybe nesecessary.

    Hunting for a hobby, fun, sport is what really irks me.
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    (Original post by miser)
    I simply don't believe you. I think if you understood the pain, fear and suffering caused to a creature by shooting it to death, you would find the idea of doing so for 'the thrill and enjoyment of the hunt and the kill' to be intolerable. That, or we have fundamentally irreconcilable ways of perceiving the world.

    I wonder how you would feel about someone using your views to support hunting the homeless, for example.
    Difference being a homeless person is a human not a deer

    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Sorry for the late reply my friend!
    I would agree on the improvement of human rights, but I just don't see a good argument for why Animals need them.
    because animals live on this planet as well as we do - and whilst we may be the dominant life form on this planet that does not give the right to abuse it as we see fit.

    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Yea, I don't think I would be comfortable shooting an Elephant or another species in simmiler risk of depopulation.
    i agree with you here.

    (Original post by Syrokal)

    4)Choose your weapon of choice, your probably going to end up Rifle Hunting, as the only other option really is Bow Hunting or Trapping, and to Bow Hunt in any serious manner you usually end having to go abroad(at least I do) join a Rifle Club or somesuch, work on your aim.


    Simplez
    You cant hunt with a bow in the UK, it has to be a rifle or shotgun.

    (Original post by Arnob204)
    Foxes are nasty little parasites that kill livestock for the heck of it. Stop getting so emotionally attached to everything.

    It's funny how you think the most appropriate response would be punching someone you dislike, I very much doubt you would actually do it though, considering the fact that it is the hunter who has the gun.
    I wonder how many people on here so opposed to hunting are "city folk" with no idea about rural life save for the "cute ickle animals getting hurt by the meanie humans" Your right about the damage foxes do - but they are not parasites. Nor are they even classed as vermin.

    Im opposed to fox hunting with dogs - i.e man on a horse and a single fox being chased by 50 hounds. Thats not a challenge its a prat on a horse riding around whilst his dogs do all the work.

    (Original post by Hopple)
    I don't understand the 'sport' element. You're pitted against an intellectually inferior opponent and have loads of gadgets to easily overcompensate any physical advantage they might have over you, and you are set to lose nothing but some time whilst they are set to lose their life. It's too one sided to count as a sport.

    Hunting to eat (and clothe and whatever else) makes sense though, there's no reason you should have to go to the butcher or supermarket to get meat, and it's better that you know where it came from.
    On the other hand though - a human stands no chance against many kinds of wild animals. So we use our strengths (our brains) against the animals tooth and claw.

    I belong to a nature religion and my patron is Cernunnos who is depicted as a god of the hunt, im also an archer (recurve natural shooter) which Cernunnos is considered to be as well. As a follower of nature the circle of life is part and parcel so hunting to me isnt such a big deal so i sit somewhere in the middle. Humans are predators, all the social structuring can not take away this fact. You can argue it all you like but we are as a species hunters - one of the reasons why our eyes are in the front of our head.

    Hunting with a bow takes far greater skill than with a high powered rifle (except i cant hunt with a bow legally). I also live in rural Ireland and hunting and shooting is part of our culture. But i dont agree with hunting endangered animals
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    (Original post by Guru Jason)
    Hunting for a hobby, fun, sport is what really irks me.
    I understand, for me it's a combination of a passion for the skills involved and a fulfilling of primal and to some extent even religious callings.

    I doub't it will ease your mind, but I don't do it for the thrill of seeing Blood Spilt, and I do pay respect to the animal and utilize absolutely everything I can.
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    (Original post by miser)
    I could never imagine killing animals for fun. To find enjoyment in killing anything strikes me as critically lacking in empathy.
    I have no rep left but I totally agree! It would take me too long to say all of the things I want to about this post...
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    (Original post by silverbolt)
    You cant hunt with a bow in the UK, it has to be a rifle or shotgun.
    I know I was less than clear in that post, I don't know why I put "most likely" you will "have to".

    Though I admit, I may have once or twice hunted small game in England with a bow.




    I belong to a nature religion and my patron is Cernunnos who is depicted as a god of the hunt, im also an archer (recurve natural shooter) which Cernunnos is considered to be as well. As a follower of nature the circle of life is part and parcel so hunting to me isnt such a big deal so i sit somewhere in the middle. Humans are predators, all the social structuring can not take away this fact. You can argue it all you like but we are as a species hunters - one of the reasons why our eyes are in the front of our head.
    Good to see a fellow Pagan, Wiccan I guess?

    Hunting with a bow takes far greater skill than with a high powered rifle (except i cant hunt with a bow legally). I also live in rural Ireland and hunting and shooting is part of our culture. But i dont agree with hunting endangered animals
    I would really advise going State-side to Bow Hunt, it's such an experience.
    I also used to Rifle Hunt, but since I went bow I never went back.

    Even If I do cheat and use a compound.

    Edit: Also do you mind if I ask where abouts in Ierland?
    I'm Irish myself though both my parent's moved to England when I was two, I still try and go back as often as possible and would like to move back sometime soon.
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    (Original post by sophmay)
    I have no rep left but I totally agree! It would take me too long to say all of the things I want to about this post...
    It may be worth it, discussion is always good!
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I know I was less than clear in that post, I don't know why I put "most likely" you will "have to".

    Though I admit, I may have once or twice hunted small game in England with a bow.
    i dont know what you mean


    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Good to see a fellow Pagan, Wiccan I guess?
    Yep

    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I would really advise going State-side to Bow Hunt, it's such an experience.
    I also used to Rifle Hunt, but since I went bow I never went back.

    Even If I do cheat and use a compound.

    Edit: Also do you mind if I ask where abouts in Ierland?
    I'm Irish myself though both my parent's moved to England when I was two, I still try and go back as often as possible and would like to move back sometime soon.
    Im in the west of ireland in the county of Roscommon
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    It may be worth it, discussion is always good!
    This is true but I'm distracting myself from an essay as it is! Maybe when I've finished ;P
 
 
 
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