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Why are smokers in this country treated worse than dogs? Watch

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    (Original post by Rarrgh)
    I find many things people around me do unpleasant and selfish, yet I don't discriminate them for it.
    Good for you, but I doubt the child inhaling their parent's cigarette smoke would be quite so able to stick up for themself.
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    (Original post by Brister)
    I stepped on a dog turd once. I cleaned my shoe and got on with my life.

    My aunt and uncle both died from lung cancer - no doubt caused at least in part by their excessive smoking - leaving my cousin with no parents at a young age. They are not coming back.

    I do not consider myself morally superior. I can understand that it has a calming effect and is addictive. Nevertheless, I value the health of smokers and non-smokers alike.

    It is especially disturbing to see parents who smoke around their own children.
    I don't have children. I actually consider it very selfish to smoke when you have children, essentially, you love cigarettes more than your child. So I don't have much to comment on that one. If your a smoker you are totally aware of the possible consequences of your actions, there is no need for some strangers to pretend they care about your health just so they can patronise you. I'll take criticism from my family and friends but random people on the street telling me how bad smoking is for me makes me laugh.

    Nobody cares about everyones health. If that were the case we would be stopping fat people in the street and lecturing them on diabetes, although I'm sure that wouldn't be as well received.
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    I hate smokers that spin the "IT'S MY RIGHT TO SMOKE" line.

    Yeah, well, It's my right not to breathe in carcinogenic crap and stink like an ashtray as well as breathing clean air, so piss off and smoke somewhere else, Mr "I smoke in bus shelters when it's raining".

    (Original post by llessur123)
    I don't have children. I actually consider it very selfish to smoke when you have children, essentially, you love cigarettes more than your child. So I don't have much to comment on that one. If your a smoker you are totally aware of the possible consequences of your actions, there is no need for some strangers to pretend they care about your health just so they can patronise you. I'll take criticism from my family and friends but random people on the street telling me how bad smoking is for me makes me laugh.

    Nobody cares about everyones health. If that were the case we would be stopping fat people in the street and lecturing them on diabetes, although I'm sure that wouldn't be as well received.
    Diabetes is not always due to being obese. It can be simply down to it being genetic.
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    (Original post by LoopyLinguist)
    Good for you, but I doubt the child inhaling their parent's cigarette smoke would be quite so able to stick up for themself.
    If a parent openly smokes inside with their child then they are just horrible parent's. If I smoke it's outside.
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    (Original post by sabian92)
    I hate smokers that spin the "IT'S MY RIGHT TO SMOKE" line.

    Yeah, well, It's my right not to breathe in carcinogenic crap and stink like an ashtray as well as breathing clean air, so piss off and smoke somewhere else, Mr "I smoke in bus shelters when it's raining".



    Diabetes is not always due to being obese. It can be simply down to it being genetic.

    A lot smokers are considerate to others and don't blow smoke in other peoples face. That is down to manners, not smoking. If you like clean air, move to somewhere where there are no cars, factories or any pollution. Cigarette smoke is a small, small percentage of the pollutants in the air.

    I wasn't talking about diabetes, I was talking about overweight people who will also deal with a plethora of health problems which can be prevented, just like smokers. To tell an overweight person that they are disgusting and should stop eating immediately would be seen as a massive insult, although it's perfectly acceptable to say these sort things to a smoker. Both are lifestyle choices that are damaging. Most smokers do not blow smoke in other peoples face, litter or smoke around children, although it is assumed they all do. I can understand why these sort of behaviours are not acceptable, but to apply it to all smokers is incredibly patronising. Overweight people are a majority, so their bad habits are deemed acceptable, smokers are a minority and so their bad habit is deemed as disgusting. Or they spin the NHS ****, most smokers pay more in tax into the NHS than they will ever take out of it so that argument is pretty much void.

    It is my right to smoke if I want to. If I smoke alone or only with other smokers and dispose of it correctly, who am I harming? Why should I have to deal with people constantly criticising my bad habit of choice if I'm not harming anyone else? I've quit smoking, but this fact still irritates me.

    This isn't necessarily directed at you, it's quite lengthy. I just thought I'd get all of my thoughts out about this.
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    (Original post by sabian92)
    I hate smokers that spin the "IT'S MY RIGHT TO SMOKE" line.

    Yeah, well, It's my right not to breathe in carcinogenic crap and stink like an ashtray as well as breathing clean air, so piss off and smoke somewhere else, Mr "I smoke in bus shelters when it's raining".
    Yet you take a fossil burning bus?
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    Wow people calm down!

    I personally have never smoked in my life. My dad used to smoke and gave it up 12 years ago without the aid of all those nicotine replacement thingamajigs.

    I agree smoking is bad for health, second hand smoke is bad as well and it's essential that we do as much as we can to prevent inhaling second hand smoke. However, a huge proportion of the British public smoke and surprisingly many of these are young- below 30 who have been brought up with the awareness of the dangers of smoking yet still smoke. A blanket ban on smoking would only push people to import cigarettes illegally and we'd lose essential taxes and push money into the hands of criminals.

    Smokers do not intentionally go to make you inhale their smoke. Most go to the shelters and smoking areas willingly even in the harshest of weather (and even at home many go outside to smoke because of second-hand smoke). I rarely ever have to inhale second-hand smoke unless I choose to by going to the smoking area with a friend etc.

    The OP was right that dog faeces all over the footpaths is annoying but by the same token that's only a minority of dog owners (or a majority where I live ew). I don't think it's the right comparison though.

    Drinking is bad for health, and impairs a lot of senses. So treating it the same- lets have a blanket ban on alcohol since many people who drink endanger everyone else with their actions while drunk. They also cost the NHS a lot of time and money with the bad effects drink has on their health- not to mention the binge drinkers who need their stomach pumped every week. They cost a lot in police time too! Who cares about the majority who enjoy a sensible drink with a few friends occasionally?! Lets ban it all because a few do stupid things like drink drive, anti-social behaviour and of course the costs on the police and NHS.

    That is my fair comparison.

    My point in short is: don't be hypocritical and hate on people for smoking a few in shelters but if someone mentioned banning drink there'd be so many arguments saying about all the responsible drinkers! There are responsible smokers and they shouldn't be punished.
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    My little brother is deathly allergic to dogs - to the point of going into Anaphylaxis when he comes into contact with a 'long haired' dog. He has to carry an epi around with him where ever he goes and stab himself with it to stop him from choking to death. If he forgets his epi pen, he has to run home to get another because literary every where is filled with mangy dogs. He can't go to his friend's houses as some of them have dogs, which obviously slows down friendships and stuff.

    He's 10.

    Just thought I'd put that out there for those replies to this thread saying dogs are harmless to everyone :rolleyes:

    Plus, there has never been a study that proves - or even successfully links - a 5 second inhale of second hand smoke whilst walking through an entrance to any sort of health issue, save from the person *****ing about it is double the chance to have a personallity which annoys me because they want attention. And make no mistake, about half of the people I've met that do complain about a tiny bit of smoke not doing anything to them are just doing it to gain attention from everyone else - most them of them don't even try and do it subetly. That's just in my experience though
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    (Original post by dragonkeeper999)
    1. No, it encourages them to smoke. It promotes smoking by giving smokers their own social spaces, rather than forcing them away from everyone else. It gives them permission to smoke, when smoking should clearly be banned outright in any public place.
    2. You are not considering the fact that the tax from the sale of cigarettes does not go to the NHS directly, but mainly to other government projects. Money and time is therefore being taken away from patients with more important health issues which they did not cause themselves. Also, no current statistics on this really consider the effects of smoke on other people, they only look at the smokers themselves. If the cost and time of treating or monitoring people with health problems caused by secondary inhalation of smoke then I doubt this would be the case. Also, the effect of smokers health problems on their work life, income, and sick leave is not considered. There are also links between smoking and taking other recreational drugs, which may have more harmful affects on the body - these health problems would not have been filed under 'smoking' but under 'illegal drugs', and so not appear in the statistics.
    3. I have noticed an interesting trend between smoking and living in council houses, and living in council houses and having loads of kids. If people didn't smoke, they would be in better health and so more able to work (and so earn some money themselves and live in their own house). They would also have more control over their body and are less likely to take other 'drugs' such as alcohol (which IS a drug as it has an affect on the body) or illegal drugs, which could lead to a few more kids than they originally planned.
    4. You're considering the individual needs of the smoker, clearly showing a selfish and thoughtless meaning to their smoking. Think about the effects of their early death on their family, particularly if they die at a reasonably young age and so are no longer able to earn money to support their family. Also, think about the effects of smoking on other people's lives. Their kids will be much more likely to suffer from problems such as asthma, and their neighbors will have to put up with smoke and chatter coming over the fence in the evenings when they are trying to enjoy their meal. Their friends will be more likely to develop cancers or breathing difficulties. Smokers can find another hobby, for example a sport. This is also a sociable activity, and has proven health benefits.
    5. As much as you love marijuana, clear links have been made between it and health problems, other drug misuse, and crime. I would have thought that we are far better off with it banned rather than having the tax revenue from its sale. Yes, now some criminals are profiting from selling marijuana, but would this really change much if it was legalised?
    Your arguments all make little to no sense.

    1.You say smoking should clearly be banned in public, where do you propose to have it acceptable to smoke?

    2.You say that the tax from tobacco does not go to the NHS which is irrelevant, if tax stopped coming in from tobacco people like you would be the first to moan about rising taxes

    3. The link between smoking and living in council housing is ridiculous the majority of smokers i know including myself are not from this background and it is even more idiotic to suggest a link between birth rates and smoking in these areas. The majority of people who smoke are not in such a poor state of health they have to take time off work. Everyone on this immature forum associates the word 'smoker' with 40 a day coughing their lungs up, again blind stupidity.

    4. You're the one showing a selfish attitude by putting your ideals above someone who smokes saying they should 'start sport' i smoke and i play sport, im not going to stop smoking because someone else thinks i should. Some people enjoy smoking, just because you do not does not mean your opinion is valid.

    5. Just chill the f**k out and smoke a joint y


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    (Original post by sam2592)
    Your arguments all make little to no sense.

    1.You say smoking should clearly be banned in public, where do you propose to have it acceptable to smoke?

    2.You say that the tax from tobacco does not go to the NHS which is irrelevant, if tax stopped coming in from tobacco people like you would be the first to moan about rising taxes

    3. The link between smoking and living in council housing is ridiculous the majority of smokers i know including myself are not from this background and it is even more idiotic to suggest a link between birth rates and smoking in these areas. The majority of people who smoke are not in such a poor state of health they have to take time off work. Everyone on this immature forum associates the word 'smoker' with 40 a day coughing their lungs up, again blind stupidity.

    4. You're the one showing a selfish attitude by putting your ideals above someone who smokes saying they should 'start sport' i smoke and i play sport, im not going to stop smoking because someone else thinks i should. Some people enjoy smoking, just because you do not does not mean your opinion is valid.

    5. Just chill the f**k out and smoke a joint y


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    1. I basically meant that they should be totally banned. Allowing people to only smoke within their own homes would probably not reduce the health affects being seen, and would still affect their immediate family and probably annoy the neighbors still.
    2. The government would save money, not just from reduced NHS costs, but also from no longer spending money on 'quit now' campaigns (although these would initially have to be increased in order to implement the ban, but then they would no longer be needed), as well as the reduction in crime and anti-social behavior (which incurs costs for the police as well as affecting businesses among others). The governmoent would also get increased revenue from taxes from all those smokers hogging council houses who are now in a fit state to work (and so should be). And to be honest, I wouldn't mind the slightly increased taxes if I no longer had to walk past smokers on every street corner, sit next to them for hours on public transport, or live in fear of my friends or future children taking up the habit.
    3. I think you are the one being stupid. Yes, I cannot prove a clear link (as I said in my original post), but it is obvious that smoking affects the health and this DOES lead to people taking sick leave and eventually becoming unfit for work. It is hard to put figures to this as no data fully analyses to correlation between smoking and being out of work, also it is hard to separate smoking from all the other factors affecting this. However, are an idiot if you believe that your smoking will not lead to serious health effects later in life, as well as the social problems and coughing they are causing now.
    4. But will you enjoy spending the last years of your life in hospital unable to breath properly, or suffering from some incurable cancer? Do you understand what you are missing out on - you would do so much better at sport without the breathing difficulties associated with smoking, you would have more friends as non-smokers would actually not move away whenever your stinking body approaches, you would do better in your education as you would be able to focus on the lessons rather than constantly thinking about your next cigarette or skipping lessons to smoke.
    5. errr, no. I strongly advise that you don't either - visit your pharmacist/ GP/ doctor/ whoever for your free 'quit-now' (or whatever they're called) kit now, and get advice on your drug habit while you're there. You can thank me later.
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    Its a choice, a luxury item, no one asked anyone to be a smoker, should feel greatful you have the option to smoke at all lol.

    Besides dogs pooping in places they should'nt is fault of the owner not the dog, and it should be cleaned up anyway, whereas you would choose to smoke near those who dont, or throw your fag butts on the ground, whos really being the bad guy here?

    I dont mind people smoking as long as its outdoors, because while you choose to smoke and want to smoke indoors, the majority dont, and dont really want to share peoples second hand smoke or stench, its as bad as someone with crazy bad BO imo.
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    (Original post by Gjaykay)
    My little brother is deathly allergic to dogs - to the point of going into Anaphylaxis when he comes into contact with a 'long haired' dog. He has to carry an epi around with him where ever he goes and stab himself with it to stop him from choking to death. If he forgets his epi pen, he has to run home to get another because literary every where is filled with mangy dogs. He can't go to his friend's houses as some of them have dogs, which obviously slows down friendships and stuff.

    He's 10.

    Just thought I'd put that out there for those replies to this thread saying dogs are harmless to everyone :rolleyes:

    Plus, there has never been a study that proves - or even successfully links - a 5 second inhale of second hand smoke whilst walking through an entrance to any sort of health issue, save from the person *****ing about it is double the chance to have a personallity which annoys me because they want attention. And make no mistake, about half of the people I've met that do complain about a tiny bit of smoke not doing anything to them are just doing it to gain attention from everyone else - most them of them don't even try and do it subetly. That's just in my experience though
    Thats terrible about your brother, plus dogs can attack people also, I've experienced this before,

    I dont moan about smokers for a second hand smoke point, my point is I just hate the smell of it, cigars are worse, smells like someone took a roll around a pub toilet lol,
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    Bennies :sogood:
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    (Original post by dragonkeeper999)
    1. I basically meant that they should be totally banned. Allowing people to only smoke within their own homes would probably not reduce the health affects being seen, and would still affect their immediate family and probably annoy the neighbors still.
    2. The government would save money, not just from reduced NHS costs, but also from no longer spending money on 'quit now' campaigns (although these would initially have to be increased in order to implement the ban, but then they would no longer be needed), as well as the reduction in crime and anti-social behavior (which incurs costs for the police as well as affecting businesses among others). The governmoent would also get increased revenue from taxes from all those smokers hogging council houses who are now in a fit state to work (and so should be). And to be honest, I wouldn't mind the slightly increased taxes if I no longer had to walk past smokers on every street corner, sit next to them for hours on public transport, or live in fear of my friends or future children taking up the habit.
    3. I think you are the one being stupid. Yes, I cannot prove a clear link (as I said in my original post), but it is obvious that smoking affects the health and this DOES lead to people taking sick leave and eventually becoming unfit for work. It is hard to put figures to this as no data fully analyses to correlation between smoking and being out of work, also it is hard to separate smoking from all the other factors affecting this. However, are an idiot if you believe that your smoking will not lead to serious health effects later in life, as well as the social problems and coughing they are causing now.
    4. But will you enjoy spending the last years of your life in hospital unable to breath properly, or suffering from some incurable cancer? Do you understand what you are missing out on - you would do so much better at sport without the breathing difficulties associated with smoking, you would have more friends as non-smokers would actually not move away whenever your stinking body approaches, you would do better in your education as you would be able to focus on the lessons rather than constantly thinking about your next cigarette or skipping lessons to smoke.
    5. errr, no. I strongly advise that you don't either - visit your pharmacist/ GP/ doctor/ whoever for your free 'quit-now' (or whatever they're called) kit now, and get advice on your drug habit while you're there. You can thank me later.
    Your entire argument is based on the assumption that all cigarettes would just disappear if it were made illegal. Smokers would just buy them from illegal sellers and thus all the money that was previously going towards taxes would now be going towards illegal activities. Excellent idea.

    Do you really think that if the government didn't massively benefit from smokers it would still be legal?


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    (Original post by llessur123)
    A lot smokers are considerate to others and don't blow smoke in other peoples face. That is down to manners, not smoking. If you like clean air, move to somewhere where there are no cars, factories or any pollution. Cigarette smoke is a small, small percentage of the pollutants in the air.

    I wasn't talking about diabetes, I was talking about overweight people who will also deal with a plethora of health problems which can be prevented, just like smokers. To tell an overweight person that they are disgusting and should stop eating immediately would be seen as a massive insult, although it's perfectly acceptable to say these sort things to a smoker. Both are lifestyle choices that are damaging. Most smokers do not blow smoke in other peoples face, litter or smoke around children, although it is assumed they all do. I can understand why these sort of behaviours are not acceptable, but to apply it to all smokers is incredibly patronising. Overweight people are a majority, so their bad habits are deemed acceptable, smokers are a minority and so their bad habit is deemed as disgusting. Or they spin the NHS ****, most smokers pay more in tax into the NHS than they will ever take out of it so that argument is pretty much void.

    It is my right to smoke if I want to. If I smoke alone or only with other smokers and dispose of it correctly, who am I harming? Why should I have to deal with people constantly criticising my bad habit of choice if I'm not harming anyone else? I've quit smoking, but this fact still irritates me.

    This isn't necessarily directed at you, it's quite lengthy. I just thought I'd get all of my thoughts out about this.
    I respect the fact you didn't just go OMG WTF UR A MORON SMOKKERS DONT KILL NUTTIN YA PLEB!!!11111oneoneone.

    I consider smoking (regardless of how it's done) quite inconsiderate but then I'm asthmatic. I cannot stand the smell of it, nor do my lungs like it that much. I only really started going into pubs once they banned smoking (and at the time I was only a kid so it was only for food!)

    I know it's not 100% of the crap in the air but it stinks and gives me the most problems with my health. I live in next to a chemical plant producing chlorine which is bad enough!

    Maybe it is but that's just the way society is. Smoking is a filthy habit, whereas just being fat isn't really that bad in comparison (ignoring the health problems if you're horrendously overweight).

    You have all the right in the world to smoke, i'm not taking that away from you. It's when people smoke around non-smokers (like at bus stops, but stand under the shelter when it's raining just so they can have a fag, or my pet hate - next to the door of a pub so you HAVE to walk through it to get in!). Argh, that is inconsiderate to the highest degree.

    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Yet you take a fossil burning bus?
    No, not really. If I absolutely have to, then yeah. Honestly I can't even remember the last time I even used a bus that being said as I usually drive or cycle (majority of the time I cycle though, I rarely drive. Even when I do I have a pretty economical car that's in the lowest VED band so it's not like i'm bombing about in a Range Rover).
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    (Original post by llessur123)
    Your entire argument is based on the assumption that all cigarettes would just disappear if it were made illegal. Smokers would just buy them from illegal sellers and thus all the money that was previously going towards taxes would now be going towards illegal activities. Excellent idea.

    Do you really think that if the government didn't massively benefit from smokers it would still be legal?


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    With enough effort and time, they could. Initially, yes there would be loads of problems. However, the change would have to be gradually implemented, with plenty of campaigns to get smokers to quit. They could, for example, require current smokers to register for some database, which would allow them to buy cigarettes, and thus current non-smokers (without the permit) could not buy cigarettes and start smoking. Then, the amount of cigarettes each smoker was allowed to buy could be gradually reduced until they have been forced to quit. Alternatively, they could move abroad if they really can't cope with the idea of giving up smoking. Yes, there would also be issues with illegal sales, but improved policing and boarder controls could prevent this. Also, more campaigns on the dangers of smoking, with celebrity support and talks in primary schools, would reduce the demand eventually.
    The trouble is with the difficulty obtaining completely reliable statistics on the links between smoking and crime/ other drug misuse/ social issues/ some health problems, which makes it hard for governments to conclude that it is economically a good idea to ban smoking. Also, current governments only want what is best for people at the moment, so everyone is happy and they will be re-elected. They do not seriously consider policies which would only have benefits in the long term and would upset many voters at the moment.
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    Because at least most Dog's can be trained so be safe and friendly towards other humans.

    Smokers can't, if you don't kill yourself with your cancer stick, your killing the poor soul that has to stand near you.
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    I smoke purely to watch people get on their moral high horse and try and impose their beliefs on what is essentially my own life choice.
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    (Original post by sam2592)
    Your arguments all make little to no sense.

    1.You say smoking should clearly be banned in public, where do you propose to have it acceptable to smoke?

    2.You say that the tax from tobacco does not go to the NHS which is irrelevant, if tax stopped coming in from tobacco people like you would be the first to moan about rising taxes

    3. The link between smoking and living in council housing is ridiculous the majority of smokers i know including myself are not from this background and it is even more idiotic to suggest a link between birth rates and smoking in these areas. The majority of people who smoke are not in such a poor state of health they have to take time off work. Everyone on this immature forum associates the word 'smoker' with 40 a day coughing their lungs up, again blind stupidity.

    4. You're the one showing a selfish attitude by putting your ideals above someone who smokes saying they should 'start sport' i smoke and i play sport, im not going to stop smoking because someone else thinks i should. Some people enjoy smoking, just because you do not does not mean your opinion is valid.

    5. Just chill the f**k out and smoke a joint y


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    I'd have +1'd this if I'd not run out of ratings for today.

    Well said
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    (Original post by Swann)
    I smoke purely to watch people get on their moral high horse and try and impose their beliefs on what is essentially my own life choice.

    You're killing yourself just to irritate other people?

    Wow, talking about ****ting on your own doorstep.
 
 
 
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