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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Firstly, there are toilets available to both, so it's incomparable. That would be comparable to one of the solutions offered by the guy - to have a male only hour too. Second, men and women need different facilities (urinals for men) and the obvious nudity factor.
    Men don't need urinals. And what nudity, you have a cubicle. In fact there is a lot more nudity in the gym as people hardly wear anything.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Anyone can be immature. Men can be immature. Women can be immature.

    I agree that men could potentially be disrespectful to women in such an environment. But I also think men could be disrespectful to other men. And even if a small number of men are behaving badly, I don't think that justifies a financial policy that disadvantages men. As the guy that wrote the article said, if they want women's only hours, then charge men less overall - that would be much fairer.

    Lol.
    Let's say that I accept your point for a moment (which I don't). There are hundreds of institutions in this country such as gentlemen's clubs, hotels, pubs and golf courses that only accept men, some accept women on the condition that they're coming with a man. I think that is much more sexist than a gym banning men for a couple of hours. Why aren't you getting wound up about this inequality?

    And if "Lol" is the best reaction you can come up with to the argument I spent time writing, I'm not going to bother responding anymore.

    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    You're doing that idiotic thing that loads of feminists do. When women are "ahead" at something, you claim it's due to valid reasons, but when men are "ahead" you claim it's due to institutional discrimination.
    There's something called "Biology". It's a science. I don't expect you to know much about this mythical science but as someone who does know a thing or two about biology, let me tell you that there are very valid biological and psychological reasons why women live longer than men. I know that you are desperate to demonise everything I say but at least make an effort rather than making claims a slightly educated 12 year old could refute.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    You're telling me that women are absolutely fine with the wealth inequality, the fact that they're being paid 70% of their male equivalents, the fact that they have virtually no role in the running of this country or her institutions? Sorry, but that's drivel and I think you know it. If the wage statistic has been debunked, please link me to a credible source that has debunked this. I have reviewed the World Economic Forum's sources and they look extremely valid to me. You're speaking out of your backside.

    If you genuinely think women are just as likely to get into parliament as men, I really think you need a lesson on how politics work. If I were you, I'd stop replying now. You've shown that you're incapable of coherent argument and you're embarrassing yourself now. We've got a queen. That's totally relevant, isn't it? Because the queen wields so much power and influence over British society and is totally representative of the people, isn't she? And yes, we have had a female prime minister. One female prime minister out of 52. Precisely 1.9% of our prime ministers were female. That's equality, isn't it? Something is stopping women getting votes, and that thing is the British institution and British society, attitudes propagated by people like you. My suspicion is that men have been very comfortable with their total domination over western society for the previous centuries and now that equality is starting to creep back into the picture, they're getting nervous.

    There is absolutely no argument you can make that would possibly indicate that women have achieved equality with men, certainly not that they've exceeded men. If you care about equality like you claim, you would fight the real battles rather than crying about a bloody gym.
    This gym is a separate issue. you're trying to lump separate things together.

    You wouldn't turn a blind eye to someone getting raped just because 'there are bigger more important issues' to worry about lmao.

    Also you're carrying on with the 70% wage statistic when this has been debunked many times already. It's due to lifestyle choices. Women are more likely to want to stay home and look after children. This could actually be reduced by making paternity leave equal to maternity leave so that men have equal choice to stay home and look after the family imo.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Even if it was done for reasons we need to know the thinking behind those reasons i.e did a tiny minority of men make it hard for a tiny minority of women therefore they complained and got the women only classes.

    If it was the other way round and men complained would they get anywhere else but being told to be a man? there is a lot of discrimination towards men in todays world being unable to show their feelings or being seen as weak, how do we know the women who complained were not just insecure or had a chip on their shoulder?

    At a gym I used to go to there was a lot of classes ran upstairs but a huge amount of them were meant to be for men and women but only women meant as men didnt want to be seen as weird being the only man, they also had female only classes which did annoy me but at same time I let it go because it was just a class it was something that interested women more rather than just being sexist and at the same time as the classes men could use the normal gym downstairs and when there was no classes the upstairs was closed, I did get a bit annoyed at paying same as women though(I am sure they actually charged women lower fees too anyway)
    Although i maintain my answer is correct with regards to the question i was answering, you do have some good points. The chioce to give women a time period during which the gym is segregated is given by the institution. I'd like to think that when making the decision to provide 'women only hours' at their institution, they made this decision with full understanding of the reasons behind the change, and ascertained that these reasons were not simply due to 'insecurity' nor were they held by a minority. Furthermore i doubt any gym would change their schedule at the risk of complaints from other gym users, if they didn't have anything to gain from the change. (And they'd only gain if a majority wanted the change so they didnt lose money)
    The best way to find out tho is to ASK the gym staff themselves to find out why the change occured.
    As for what u said about how men wouldn't be treated the same; they should be. If men want to have men only hours etc or dont want women to hve womens only hours, all they have to do is ask. The gym is likely to go with the majority so they hve the most to gain ie they dont want to lose customers. Sadly tht comes before the satisfaction of an individual customer.
    Amd seriously sometimes im the only person aged under 40 in class, its not wierd. So what if your the only guy?
    But yhh agree that men are marginalised more often than not when it comes to issues of insecurity. Sadly thats one kind of discrimination that has yet to be abolished.
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    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    This gym is a separate issue. you're trying to lump separate things together.

    You wouldn't turn a blind eye to someone getting raped just because 'there are bigger more important issues' to worry about lmao.

    Also you're carrying on with the 70% wage statistic when this has been debunked many times already. It's due to lifestyle choices. Women are more likely to want to stay home and look after children. This could actually be reduced by making paternity leave equal to maternity leave so that men have equal choice to stay home and look after the family imo.
    You can't tell me "It's been debunked" and expect me to take your word for it. I've given you an extremely reputable source that states, very clearly, that it is true. If you're so certain that it's been debunked, give me a source. It shouldn't be hard.

    For your information, the Daily Mail doesn't count as a reputable source.
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    Women only sessions, if once or twice a week, seem reasonable. As do men only, if they are used. Seem to be good business to me, and given the health of the nation, could help overcome obesity.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    You can't tell me "It's been debunked" and expect me to take your word for it. I've given you an extremely reputable source that states, very clearly, that it is true. If you're so certain that it's been debunked, give me a source. It shouldn't be hard.

    For your information, the Daily Mail doesn't count as a reputable source.
    Well you didn't actually provide any links. But here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

    There are 48 sources at the bottom of the page. Eat your heart out.


    Whether the pay gap is due to discrimination is a matter of debate. Since there are many other factors that contribute towards it.

    I'm all for equal pay but I have mixed feelings about taking away the right to negotiate salaries though, which would negate any differences in wages between different people.
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    (Original post by SarcasticMel)
    Men don't need urinals. And what nudity, you have a cubicle. In fact there is a lot more nudity in the gym as people hardly wear anything.
    Men prefer them, I guess. More convenient, less hassle etc. Also can fit more into a space so more efficient and waste water.
    Nudity as in penises - I don't think you'd be allowed to get those out in the gym.
    Some places do have unisex toilets though and that's fine.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan95)
    I guess it protects a woman's modesty but not letting men see them in tight gym gear. I have no problem with that.
    If they don't want to be seem in right clothes don't wear right clothes. Gym clothes don't have to be skin tight - most men don't wear tight clothes so it's clearly not an inability to exercise without tight clothes thing.
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    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    Well you didn't actually provide any links. But here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

    There are 48 sources at the bottom of the page. Eat your heart out.


    Whether the pay gap is due to discrimination is a matter of debate. Since there are many other factors that contribute towards it.

    I'm all for equal pay but I have mixed feelings about taking away the right to negotiate salaries though, which would negate any differences in wages between different people.
    Quoting directly from the 'source' you've given me:

    "Even when taking the differences in hours worked into account a pay gap still exists in the UK and typically increases with age and earnings percentile." According to Eurostat, the major source of statistics in that article, the gap is 21%. That is marginally lower than the statistic given by the WEF (29%) but this statistic was published in 2008 whereas the WEF's figure was published in 2013. I would also argue that the WEF's methodology is comprehensive. But we're arguing about details: whether the discrepancy is 21% or 29%, it doesn't make a massive difference: it's still a massive gap. The source you've given me addresses the issue of income disparity, not wage disparity for the same work, which is quite possibly an even more important indicator of economic inequality.

    So I'm not entirely sure why you've given me this article because it doesn't really seem to be supporting what you're saying.

    And since you've clearly not bothered to use Google to find my source, here's a helpful link.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    Quoting directly from the 'source' you've given me:

    "Even when taking the differences in hours worked into account a pay gap still exists in the UK and typically increases with age and earnings percentile." According to Eurostat, the major source of statistics in that article, the gap is 21%. That is marginally lower than the statistic given by the WEF (29%) but this statistic was published in 2008 whereas the WEF's figure was published in 2013. I would also argue that the WEF's methodology is comprehensive. But we're arguing about details: whether the discrepancy is 21% or 29%, it doesn't make a massive difference: it's still a massive gap. The source you've given me addresses the issue of income disparity, not wage disparity for the same work, which is quite possibly an even more important indicator of economic inequality.

    So I'm not entirely sure why you've given me this article because it doesn't really seem to be supporting what you're saying.

    And since you've clearly not bothered to use Google to find my source, here's a helpful link.
    Loled at last line. I was thinking about writing an equally silly line about you not using google either


    And ye it's a balanced article. That paragraph you quoted doesn't contradict anything I've been saying either.
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    (Original post by Sabrina3210)
    I know this question isn't for me but jus gunna put in my two cents.
    I understand where your coming from but the REASONS behind why these things happened are different. Introducing womens only hours was probably done at the request of the women for various reasons, however the service the gym provides is still offered to BOTH men and women. Also men are aware of the womens only hours when joining, therefore this isn't discriminatory. On the other hand, not serving people whose beliefs and lifestyle goes against your religion, and ONLY on tht basis is discrimination. Which is against the law
    The service isn't offered to both. Women get access to the gym at more times than men. Men don't get the same access, hence discrimination. Just because they are made aware if the discrimination doesn't mean it's not discrimination.
    Reasons are irrelevant, even if they refused to serve the gay couple because they had a lot if catholic customers who wouldn't like it (ie a business reason rather than personal) it'd still be discrimination.
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    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    Loled at last line. I was thinking about writing an equally silly line about you not using google either

    And ye it's a balanced article. That paragraph you quoted doesn't contradict anything I've been saying either.

    "Even when taking the differences in hours worked into account a pay gap still exists in the UK and typically increases with age and earnings percentile." and quoting a wealth disparity of 21% doesn't contradict what you've been saying?
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    (Original post by SarcasticMel)
    Remove the pissoirs and put in a few more cubicles, no more dinkles to come out.

    Not to mention it's quite funny that you say it would be awkard for the men. Well apparently women find it awkward to have to use the gym together with men.
    That's just women being prissy princesses. If a woman is being harassed at the gym that's obviously wrong, but if it's just a case of being worried someone might see her in her gym gear then that's ridiculous.

    Being a woman myself who uses free weights, I've only maybe had one or two negative or sarcastic comments from guys. Most of the time I'm left alone to do my work out. The occasional comments I do get are usually positive or constructive and welcomed. Guys comment on other guy's routines and performance all the time, but as soon as a guy comments on a girl's he's a pervert and she doesn't want to exercise near men again. (obviously discounting actual cases of harassment which are another matter and need to be dealt with seriously by the gym).
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    No point discussing anything with me? You're the one fabricating facts, blowing things out of proportion and seemingly under the belief that society has a vendetta against your gender.

    If you genuinely believed that men and women should be treated equally and given the same opportunities, you would be spending you time worrying about the fact that men are over-represented in practically every single powerful profession on the planet, the fact men still earn vastly more than women and the fact that in a recent review on the global position of women, even in the UK, women are under-represented and prejudiced against in every single aspect of society apart from education.

    Instead, you complain about your gym giving a few hours for women only. Oh my god, the outrage!
    Just because there are 'worse' issues doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss/consider these. Maybe we should ignore all the facts you listed, because you know, women in Saudi have it worse, they can't drive or go out without a male etc.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)

    "Even when taking the differences in hours worked into account a pay gap still exists in the UK and typically increases with age and earnings percentile." and quoting a wealth disparity of 21% doesn't contradict what you've been saying?
    No... Since I've been saying the wage gap is largely due to women's choices. It says so in the first paragraph of the wikipedia page lol. And that whether it is due to discrimination is still being debated.
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    (Original post by James222)
    Its not sexists, just because you want to go a gym where their are guys doesnt mean all women should have to.

    Some people treat political correctness like a religion.
    That isn't the point. The point is the inequality of service. Sure, have a women only hour, but either have a make equivalent or charge men less.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    Let's say that I accept your point for a moment (which I don't). There are hundreds of institutions in this country such as gentlemen's clubs, hotels, pubs and golf courses that only accept men, some accept women on the condition that they're coming with a man. I think that is much more sexist than a gym banning men for a couple of hours. Why aren't you getting wound up about this inequality?
    Because someone started a thread on it, and I agreed with the linked article. I post in a variety of threads on this forum. There are presumably both "men's only" and "women's only" gyms, but I actually don't have much issue with them, because as only one gender can join, we don't have the issue that we have with this particular gym, where men and women pay the same fees, but women get more potential hours of use.

    And if "Lol" is the best reaction you can come up with to the argument I spent time writing, I'm not going to bother responding anymore.
    Your point was essentially about how women apparently have it significantly more difficult than men, with the typical reference to the wage gap, which doesn't prove anything. There are vastly more men than women in prison - that doesn't mean something is "wrong" or that men are being discriminated against. There are loads of explanations for the gender difference in pay which do not involve discrimination.

    Simply saying "female managers get paid less than male managers", which is the strength of the argument that you were using, proves absolutely nothing.

    There's something called "Biology". It's a science. I don't expect you to know much about this mythical science but as someone who does know a thing or two about biology, let me tell you that there are very valid biological and psychological reasons why women live longer than men. I know that you are desperate to demonise everything I say but at least make an effort rather than making claims a slightly educated 12 year old could refute.
    But there are no valid psychological and biological reasons why women may earn less than men? Of course there are.

    Exactly as I said, you are attempting to claim that any female disadvantage is due to discrimination, but claim that any male disadvantage is due to legitimate biological reasons. That is inconsistent. If men were living longer than women, people like you would be screaming from the rooftops about how it showed that society didn't care about women.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Just because there are 'worse' issues doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss/consider these. Maybe we should ignore all the facts you listed, because you know, women in Saudi have it worse, they can't drive or go out without a male etc.
    I'm not saying that. My problem is that a lot of people here are whining because of their general vendetta against women, not because they particularly care about this individual event. They are excusing what they're saying by claiming they want "Equality". What I'm saying is that if they want equality, they should worry about the real equality issues - which are generally against women - rather than cherry pick the few examples where men might not have complete equality. I completely agree that Saudi women have it worse off than us. Unfortunately, if I had used that as an argument, I would have been taken even less seriously.

    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    No... Since I've been saying the wage gap is largely due to women's choices. It says so in the first paragraph of the wikipedia page lol. And that whether it is due to discrimination is still being debated.
    Then please make a thread asking the many male-only institutions to change their policy, too.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)

    "Even when taking the differences in hours worked into account a pay gap still exists in the UK and typically increases with age and earnings percentile." and quoting a wealth disparity of 21% doesn't contradict what you've been saying?
    Just hours worked isn't the only reason for it. It's also choices of career, men are more likely to pursue STEM subjects which lead to better paying salaries. Women may take years out of work to look after kids, setting them back in their career even if they do go back to full time work, which actually could explain why it increases with age.
 
 
 
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