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If you are English, do you support Scottish independence? Watch

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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The main people against Separation are the majority of the Scottish Electorate.

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman...king-1-2924728

    You may also want to do a bit of research on North Sea Oil as the SNPs claims have already been discredited as fanciful.
    Did you see how much shale gas they have in the lowlands?
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    The problem with that principle is how to decide what counts as a country.

    For some purposes you might say a country is independent by definition. E.g. UN membership. And in other cases it's fairly arbitrary what counts as a country. Fine, Scotland is a country. But if Scotland is a country, why isn't Catalonia? Or Quebec?

    There isn't really any objective definition of a country. It's really nothing more than whether or not people think of a place as a country or not, and if someone supports independence for whatever region, they're obviously going to think of it as a country. So to say that any country should be independent if they want is basically the same as saying anywhere should be independent if that's what the residents want.
    You're making an issue of something that isn't one. Scotland is already a country, it's simply part of a union. Way to overcomplicate a non-issue LOL

    Also There isn't really any objective definition of a country" has to be the most laughably stupid line I've heard all week. An absolute non-sentence, lacking in any meaning or purpose.
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    (Original post by forfrosne)
    You're making an issue of something that isn't one. Scotland is already a country, it's simply part of a union. Way to overcomplicate a non-issue LOL

    Also There isn't really any objective definition of a country" has to be the most laughably stupid line I've heard all week. An absolute non-sentence, lacking in any meaning or purpose.

    Dont you worry. We'll just ignore the massive obstacles that the SNP have failed to plan for.

    Did you know Mercia is also a country?
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    It's not going to happen. No one here gives a ****.
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    As a Brit and I mean that, as I am from a family that is of all 4 countries we should stand together so families like ours can still be united. You do realise and ooo so many hates for this I can feel it, we have all crossed the borders over the centuries so much and jiggled around so much that are any of us English, Scot or Welsh anyone surly only British is real, a mix of all. Well I can dream.
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    (Original post by wortandbeer)
    I am English, and I want the UK to break up. People will flame me, but we're entitled to our opinions.
    I've been itching for a thread like this.

    I wish I english were allowed to vote in the referendum, as I like SNP + Alex Salmond - he seems more passionate about his political views than many of the main 3 parties ever are.
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    If RoI can be indie why can't the Scots
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Dont you worry. We'll just ignore the massive obstacles that the SNP have failed to plan for.

    Did you know Mercia is also a country?
    I would actually agree that the definition of what is and isn't a country is very open to individual interpretation.

    But try to be honest for a change. Nobody in their right mind sees Mercia as a country (apart for the pupose of making incredibly facetious arguments). I relaise a lot of people will see political independence as being integral to a 'nation' actually being a country but that's pretty much the only aspect of the definition someone can squabble over with Scotland. By many reasonable definitions, Scotland is a country. By no reasonable definition, is Mercia a country.
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    (Original post by WilliamsQI)
    As a Brit and I mean that, as I am from a family that is of all 4 countries we should stand together so families like ours can still be united. You do realise and ooo so many hates for this I can feel it, we have all crossed the borders over the centuries so much and jiggled around so much that are any of us English, Scot or Welsh anyone surly only British is real, a mix of all. Well I can dream.
    This is actually one of the worst arguments against independence I've heard. That somehow family members from different parts of the UK will become "foreigners" and this is a bad thing.

    Will you think any different of your relatives should Scotland become independent. I have English relatives, I certainly wouldn't think or feel any differently about them should the UK split up.

    Are British familiy members somehow 'more family' than non-UK family members just because of what it says on their passport?

    As for us not being Scottish, English or Welsh but only British. By the same token, is anyone even really British? I doubt many people would have to go very far back in the family tree to find ancestors that were not British. British people have also gone all over the world.

    On a personal, human level what country someone comes from shouldn't matter in the slightest.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    This is actually one of the worst arguments against independence I've heard. That somehow family members from different parts of the UK will become "foreigners" and this is a bad thing.

    Will you think any different of your relatives should Scotland become independent. I have English relatives, I certainly wouldn't think or feel any differently about them should the UK split up.

    Are British familiy members somehow 'more family' than non-UK family members just because of what it says on their passport?

    As for us not being Scottish, English or Welsh but only British. By the same token, is anyone even really British? I doubt many people would have to go very far back in the family tree to find ancestors that were not British. British people have also gone all over the world.

    On a personal, human level what country someone comes from shouldn't matter in the slightest.
    It's of the same vein as the CyberNat communities Destiny, we are a nation, and generally other emotionally charged pish.

    In fact, the family argument is actually quite relevant as after 300 years the UK is so intertwied that we have our own unique culture made of of regional differences, that SNP supporters don't seem to be ale to comprehend.
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    (Original post by forfrosne)
    You're making an issue of something that isn't one. Scotland is already a country, it's simply part of a union. Way to overcomplicate a non-issue LOL

    Also There isn't really any objective definition of a country" has to be the most laughably stupid line I've heard all week. An absolute non-sentence, lacking in any meaning or purpose.
    No, I'm afraid you're analysis of this is entirely shallow. Saying "way to overcomplicate things" when someone is talking about a matter of political theory really is so unutterably depressing, particularly on a forum aimed at people in higher education.

    The basis of Scottish nationalism is based on the concept of Scotland being a nation. I, for one, do not believe in nations. They are a very poor way of trying to identify anthropological differences between groups. Their weakness is that they are poor generalisations and largely create a fictionalised homogeneity where none really exists.

    Nationalism - and I don't even mean political nationalism here - is an attempt to do what we did with races in the past: to classify, to create groups, to be able to identify subspecies of humans. Racial theory was dismissed as pseudoscience in the modern era. I imagine there will very well be a time when nationalist theory will be equally discredited. Indeed, there has always been a huge body of people opposed to it.

    The point of being on this forum is to think about things and discuss them. You clearly haven't thought about this issue.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    As for us not being Scottish, English or Welsh but only British. By the same token, is anyone even really British? I doubt many people would have to go very far back in the family tree to find ancestors that were not British. British people have also gone all over the world.
    This presupposes you primarily consider your identity in ethnic terms. Which most people don't.
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    (Original post by christanmu)
    A recent study found 9/10 Scots are reliant on the state.
    25% of Scots work in the public sector.

    Nope, I wouldn't have a care in the world if they left. I'd find it quite amusing to watch them crash, burn, and ask to come back. And then I would vote no...

    Also to the person which said we are a sinking ship, they should see what Scotland would be - that Nation which has absolute dependence on EU funding and UK taxes to sustain itself. Salmond talks of a Scottish Norway-esque economy, the only awkward truth is that the Norweigans and indeed Scandanavians as a race are intelligent, whereas us Brits aren't, on the whole (obviously a gross generalisation, but pretty much true). Oh that and obviously the fact that you would need a Visa as they wouldn't automatically be a member of the EU like Salmond thought - that an is literally inept.
    A highly amusing point of view from you! Can you clarify which study stated that 9/10 of Scots are reliant on the State? and please next time could you do a little research before you make any comments like this!
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    (Original post by rotterdamhibs)
    A highly amusing point of view from you! Can you clarify which study stated that 9/10 of Scots are reliant on the State? and please next time could you do a little research before you make any comments like this!
    I think he's talking about this one.

    http://fullfact.org/factchecks/nine_...en_state-28539

    Either way, it's not good, and it appears to be a situation that the SP, and Labour are quite happy to continue with.

    The whole of the UK seems to be spending more than it raises in taxes
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    (Original post by rotterdamhibs)
    A highly amusing point of view from you! Can you clarify which study stated that 9/10 of Scots are reliant on the State? and please next time could you do a little research before you make any comments like this!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-pay-tax.html

    The study is pretty solid, here is an article on it which took me 5s to find, sure it is from the Daily Mail and so not exactly reputable, but if you wish to look into the matter I suggest you have a quick search yourself, as I don't have to do your work.

    And please could you do a little research before you make any comments like this.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I, for one, do not believe in nations. They are a very poor way of trying to identify anthropological differences between groups. Their weakness is that they are poor generalisations and largely create a fictionalised homogeneity where none really exists.
    Hahahaha let's see how far that belief gets you when you turn up in Australia and when they ask to see your passport you tell them "Nations don't really exist."

    Here's a useful fact for you: individual nations do have unique cultures that apply solely to them and which are a direct result of what the people of that nation have done.

    I do not believe that they try to create a 'fictionalised' homogeneity. I believe countries actually do have very obvious and important cultures that are unique to them. China, Britain, France, Germany, wherever; these countries have unique cultures that, largely speaking, do not exist outside of their borders, though they have influenced others. There is a difference between saying "Here are such and such aspects of Britain's culture" and saying "Every British citizen contributes to this culture in these same ways." Nobody makes that claim.

    (Original post by L i b)
    Nationalism - and I don't even mean political nationalism here - is an attempt to do what we did with races in the past: to classify, to create groups, to be able to identify subspecies of humans. Racial theory was dismissed as pseudoscience in the modern era. I imagine there will very well be a time when nationalist theory will be equally discredited. Indeed, there has always been a huge body of people opposed to it.
    The difference is that racial theory had no evidence to back it up.

    'Nationalism' has history to back it up. There are objective cultural differences between countries, objectively different histories and origins that separate them.

    (Original post by L i b)
    The point of being on this forum is to think about things and discuss them. You clearly haven't thought about this issue.
    I've thought about it, I just came to a different conclusion to you.

    You know, that is actually possible.
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    (Original post by christanmu)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-pay-tax.html

    The study is pretty solid, here is an article on it which took me 5s to find, sure it is from the Daily Mail and so not exactly reputable, but if you wish to look into the matter I suggest you have a quick search yourself, as I don't have to do your work.

    And please could you do a little research before you make any comments like this.
    Well done for finding an article from the Daily Mail.I am sure that the Scottish Conservative Leader was not biased at all in her speech at the party conference held in Birmingham!

    Due to the fact I am too lazy to carry out a full national survey, I have used the miracle of Google to give you some light reading,enjoy!

    http://fullfact.org/factchecks/publi...nd_eu_uk-28892
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    (Original post by rotterdamhibs)
    Well done for finding an article from the Daily Mail.I am sure that the Scottish Conservative Leader was not biased at all in her speech at the party conference held in Birmingham!

    Due to the fact I am too lazy to carry out a full national survey, I have used the miracle of Google to give you some light reading,enjoy!

    http://fullfact.org/factchecks/publi...nd_eu_uk-28892
    Well done, there was this one time that I cared...
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    (Original post by christanmu)
    Well done, there was this one time that I cared...
    Why are you commenting on a thread if you dont care?.....
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    (Original post by rotterdamhibs)
    Why are you commenting on a thread if you dont care?.....
    Because I cared when I commented, around a week ago.
 
 
 
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