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A ban on female members at Muirfield Golf Club in 2013? Why!?! watch

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    (Original post by Drewski)
    And I expect the men would get in the way of the women who play at the following women-only clubs (of which there are an equal amount to men-only clubs):
    http://www.lundinladiesgolfclub.co.uk/
    http://www.sunningdaleladies.co.uk/
    http://www.formbyladiesgolfclub.co.uk/
    You should probably look at your links before you post. The second one has a picture of a man on the front page. It clearly says men and women are allowed to be members there.

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    They are different things - Muirfield is one of the major national courses. The ones you mention have different contexts. Sunningdale for example has multiple clubs for different categories, so women and men are not disbarred from membership. Lundin Ladies does not exclude men from club membership and is only a small course - it isn't unreasonable to have specialist courses. Formby is in a similar category.

    You are not comparing like with like.
    Why are they different things? I don't know why it matters how big the golf course is.

    Lundin states that, "Membership is available to lady golfers and junior girls. Gentlemen and boys may become season ticket holders." Men cannot be members there. They can be season ticket holders. I guess that means that they're allowed to play as some kind of guest. If it's reasonable to have speciliast courses that are small, it should also be reasonable to have specialist courses that are large.

    The Formby club doesn't actually say whether men can sign up, but I'm pretty sure that they can't. It says that they can play there and take part in some of the compeitions, but I can't find anywhere that says they can be members. The most it says about men is that they are, "warmly welcome them as visitors."

    Women are allowed to play at Muirfield. They just cannot be members.

    I really don't see why people make a big deal out of these kind of things. There are hundreds of golf clubs that you can be a member of. If your gender cannot become a member of an individual course golf, choose another one. People just complain for the sake of it.
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    (Original post by pane123)
    You have stepped into the realm of the ridiculous with your comment on gay bars.

    If you cannot separate sex and race then I feel this debate has run its course.
    Got two gay bars in my town. It is full of men, perfect place as a male only environment, but they do not ban straight people or women.

    Please explain to me, how discrimination between race and gender is different? Also, would you be up in arms if a private golf club refused black members? If you would be, but have no issue if they don't allow female members, then that is hypocrisy of the highest order.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Got two gay bars in my town. It is full of men, perfect place as a male only environment, but they do not ban straight people of women.

    Please explain to me, how discrimination between race and gender is different? Also, would you be up in arms if a private golf club refused black members? If you would be, but have no issue if they don't allow female members, then that is hypocrisy of the highest order.
    Surely a gay bar could be prosecuted for barring hetero women? It sounds implausible to me that they have such a ban. Are you listening to gossip rather than checking your facts?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Surely a gay bar could be prosecuted for barring hetero women? It sounds implausible to me that they have such a ban. Are you listening to gossip rather than checking your facts?
    The gay bars in my town do not have any bans on women entering. Most lassies simply give it a wide berth.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Got two gay bars in my town. It is full of men, perfect place as a male only environment, but they do not ban straight people of women.

    Please explain to me, how discrimination between race and gender is different? Also, would you be up in arms if a private golf club refused black members? If you would be, but have no issue if they don't allow female members, then that is hypocrisy of the highest order.
    Yes, I would be up in arms if a golf club refused black members. But I am not a hypocrite.

    You are throwing a blanket of equality over everything. I am sure most people can relate to wanting a boys' or girls' night out, where friends of the opposite sex would not be welcome. Is this sexist? No.

    The above example is very, very different from a group of friends having a whites' night out, where friends from ethnic minorities are not welcome.

    Sometimes men just want to hang about with other men and sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.
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    (Original post by pane123)
    Yes, I would be up in arms if a golf club refused black members. But I am not a hypocrite.

    You are throwing a blanket of equality over everything. I am sure most people can relate to wanting a boys' or girls' night out, where friends of the opposite sex would not be welcome. Is this sexist? No.

    The above example is very, very different from a group of friends having a whites' night out, where friends from ethnic minorities are not welcome.

    Sometimes men just want to hang about with other men and sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.
    With all due respect, that is hypocrisy, pure and simple. You would be up in arms about a ban on black members, but have no issue with a ban on female members? What else can I say?

    I have no problem with a club having a ladies day, or a OAP day and the like. The problem here is a ban on membership, and I can't see how a golf club can justify it.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    With all due respect, that is hypocrisy, pure and simple. You would be up in arms about a ban on black members, but have no issue with a ban on female members? What else can I say?
    Please don't say anything else.

    You have an idea in your head and you are sticking with it, regardless of what is said to you. You seem boil everything down down to its simplest form and cannot understand nuances in any issues with which you disagree. Maybe you are able to understand them, but simply choose to ignore them - it must be one of the two.

    Do you have similar issues with the Boys' Brigade or the Girl Guides?

    Banning a black man from Muirfield would suggest he's inferior to the white male members. Banning women from membership does not infer that they are inferior to men, regardless of what you say.

    It is perfectly acceptable for men to enjoy the company of males more than the company of women, but there would be no reason for them to enjoy the company of one person more than the company of another person based only on the colour of their skin.

    Your continued failure to distinguish between race and sex issues is quite astounding.
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    (Original post by pane123)
    Please don't say anything else.

    You have an idea in your head and you are sticking with it, regardless of what is said to you. You seem boil everything down down to its simplest form and cannot understand nuances in any issues with which you disagree. Maybe you are able to understand them, but simply choose to ignore them - it must be one of the two.

    Do you have similar issues with the Boys' Brigade or the Girl Guides?

    Banning a black man from Muirfield would suggest he's inferior to the white male members. Banning women from membership does not infer that they are inferior to men, regardless of what you say.

    It is perfectly acceptable for men to enjoy the company of males more than the company of women, but there would be no reason for them to enjoy the company of one person more than the company of another person based only on the colour of their skin.

    Your continued failure to distinguish between race and sex issues is quite astounding.
    For the majority of people in the 21st century, discrimination of the group of people with regards to race, colour, creed and gender is the same. It is discrimination, pure and simple. What you saying above is utter tosh.

    As far as scouts and girl guides go, if a boy wishes to join the girl guides, maybe he prefers some of there activities for example, then why not? There may be some girl guides who would prefer to join the scouts, due to activities and the like, should she be able to join? Absolutely, why not? What would be the harm?

    "Banning a black man from Muirfield would suggest he's inferior to the white male members. Banning women from membership does not infer that they are inferior to men, regardless of what you say."

    Are you on a wind up? The above quote makes absolutely no sense.
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    (Original post by The Velour Fog)
    I'm against a lot of the techniques feminists use to activate and I care a lot about male rights too.


    It is outdated and sexist, I agree, but like other users have pointed out, there are ladies gyms, etc., which also follow the same procedure. There has to be give and take within society, and women simply can't do all the taking. I doubt men are up in arms about not being able to attend women-only gyms, so women should treat Muirfield Golf Club with the same attitude.

    I for one would love to go to a Silver Screen, and see a movie with a group of 50+ people, because there have been many occasions where the film has been disrupted by a bunch of annoying teenagers, but I shan't cry in outrage, claiming ageism.
    Feminists don't always agree on techniques, and they do care about male rights too - men are also a victim of gender roles. The definition of a feminist is someone who thinks men and women should be equal . . . most people are feminists :P

    True, but I think there is difference in intention. Many women are harassed at gyms and made to feel uncomfortable at men, whereas the club is just elitist . . .
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    "Banning a black man from Muirfield would suggest he's inferior to the white male members. Banning women from membership does not infer that they are inferior to men, regardless of what you say."

    Are you on a wind up? The above quote makes absolutely no sense.
    It makes perfect sense.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    How is this still legal in Great Britain, in 2013?

    It is absolutely embarrassing, and the sooner this stupid rule is banished to the history books, the better. Whether it is done on a voluntary basis, or a law needs to be passed.

    To watch the Open Golf Tournament on TV and know that the course it is being played on, with this bigoted rule, is quite ridiculous.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23355533
    We're banned cos they don't want period blood all over the place
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    I have no problem with a club having a ladies day, or a OAP day and the like. The problem here is a ban on membership, and I can't see how a golf club can justify it.
    Do you have a problem with boy and girl scouts groups?

    Edit: Question has already been asked above. Disregard.
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    (Original post by wtfCharlie)
    True, but I think there is difference in intention. Many women are harassed at gyms and made to feel uncomfortable at men, whereas the club is just elitist . . .
    Are golf clubs that only allow members that are women also elitist?
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    (Original post by NathanW18)
    Do you have a problem with boy and girl scouts groups?

    Edit: Question has already been asked above. Disregard.
    I don't have a problem with them.
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    (Original post by NathanW18)
    Are golf clubs that only allow members that are women also elitist?
    I don't know - was just pointing out there is a difference in intention.

    Typically, white, straight, able-bodied men have been at 'the top', so to speak, so a club that seems to only want those comes off as elitist IMO.
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    (Original post by wtfCharlie)
    I don't know - was just pointing out there is a difference in intention.

    Typically, white, straight, able-bodied men have been at 'the top', so to speak, so a club that seems to only want those comes off as elitist IMO.
    A perfectly acceptable opinion, but the club in question would not ban a black, gay, disabled man. Elitist it may be, but does it really have a negative impact on gender equality?

    I would suggest not.
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    (Original post by northbrad30)
    I'm not against men only clubs, however if that course is being used for a major tournament then women should be allowed to at least practice there even if they cannot join the club itself.
    But i don't see anything wrong with having men or women only clubs, sometimes people just think they can get on with and chat better with their own gender and i see nothing wrong with having groups to help that.
    You can't just go and practice at a golf club like that
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    I don't have a problem with them.
    Yeah, sorry. I noticed that you had been asked the question and had answered it after I posted.

    (Original post by wtfCharlie)
    I don't know - was just pointing out there is a difference in intention.

    Typically, white, straight, able-bodied men have been at 'the top', so to speak, so a club that seems to only want those comes off as elitist IMO.
    If women believe that they're being harassed at the gym and want their own, that's fair enough. There are plenty of gyms that males can join. I see no reason to complain about it. If you allow one gender to have this type of thing, you should also allow the other gender to have the same thing. If males wanted their own gym for the same reasons, I would also see no problem in that.

    Going by the second sentence, I take it that you have no problem with courses that only allow women to be members? You can't allow for one and not the other.
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    (Original post by pane123)
    A perfectly acceptable opinion, but the club in question would not ban a black, gay, disabled man. Elitist it may be, but does it really have a negative impact on gender equality?

    I would suggest not.
    No, but I doubt they'd be welcomed lol! It's just that Old Etonian mindset that bugs me. It's a small impact but it IS one nonetheless.
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    (Original post by NathanW18)
    Yeah, sorry. I noticed that you had been asked the question and had answered it after I posted.


    If women believe that they're being harassed at the gym and want their own, that's fair enough. There are plenty of gyms that males can join. I see no reason to complain about it. If you allow one gender to have this type of thing, you should also allow the other gender to have the same thing. If males wanted their own gym for the same reasons, I would also see no problem in that.

    Going by the second sentence, I take it that you have no problem with courses that only allow women to be members? You can't allow for one and not the other.
    Yes, and I agree that there should be male-only gyms.

    It would depend. Women's bodies are more scrutinized in the media so I can see why women would want, say, swimming to be female-only.
 
 
 
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