Giggs or Suarez? Watch

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Giggs (22)
24.44%
Suarez (68)
75.56%
Ggmu!
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#121
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#121
(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Enjoying the leg room at Villa Park.

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It's been a long time, welcome back.

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White Dress
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#122
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#122
(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Read the last page or two. I've no need to substantiate, I've made my point several times already and he won't answer a simple question, instead he diverts into irrelevant sad nonsense that nobody cares about.

As Jam says, he can't take it.
I've already read them, there's several points where I could quote either of you and correct your mistakes. By and large I agree with you, not massively because your arguments are particularly compelling (although they defeat River's pretty well), but because only a moron would say Giggs > Suarez in this discussion.

River said Suarez is a scrote for handballing (presumably in the WC vs Ghana) ffs. I would do that 100 times out of 100 for my country and never feel a tinge of regret. That doesn't make you a scrote, it makes you a hero and a winner.

But regardless of what you think about it, to suggest that a footballing act is indicative of a bad personality shows the desperation in his argument.

Similar to him playing the 'I'm a more knowledgable human being than you' card in his last post. Desperation, stinky desperation.

There is no discussion to be had here. I can't believe he's carried it on this long.
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username917703
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#123
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#123
(Original post by White Dress)
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Fair enough & repped.
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White Dress
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#124
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#124
(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Fair enough & repped.
And you mate. And lol I just read my post again, I didn't mean to sound like a **** when I said 'correct your mistakes', i meant something like offer my opinion etc. You get the gist anyway
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username917703
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#125
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#125
(Original post by Ggmu!)
It's been a long time, welcome back.
Thanks brother. Repped.
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StretfordEnd
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#126
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#126
They're both scummy people if we're totally honest but I've had to associate with serial cheats in the past, and I've had to associate with racists in the past.

I know which I least prefer personally.
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White Dress
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#127
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#127
Didn't realise Giggs was a racist, because everyone knows Suarez isn't one
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A Perfect Circle
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#128
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#128
Some serious cognitive dissonance in this thread. It's pretty obvious that, from what we know, Suarez is a far better person.

I'd rather have someone call me a paki **** and bite my arm once a week for 80 years than have my brother **** my wife once a week for 8 years.

**** I think I'd even take daily racial abuse/bites over the affair...
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River85
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#129
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#129
(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Keep dodging the question lad.

Would you rather be racially abused or have your brother knock your wife up.
With Suarez we aren't just talking about the racism incident. We're talking his other behaviour on the pitch. The lack of respect he shows to opponents and, more widely, the game. The bad example he shows to others in the game. Not that racism itself is bad enough. This can be explained by his tough upbringing, temperament, win at all costs attitude. But it happens.

As for your question I would prefer the former. But that's irrelevant. It doesn't make the fomer any more justified, and the act is committed against me. Because I prefer one or the other doesn't mean to say that one is "less bad", depending on circumstances. For example, what if I was physically or emotionally abusive to my wife? What if my brother has bipolar disorder and had an affair while in a Manic episode? How has my brother treat me over the years?

How can you judge on what a person is like, if you don't know them?

I'm fully willing to admit that Giggs might well be a complete and utter ****. But he's a model professional. That's all I care about. I've never looked to footballers as moral leaders off the pitch.

(Original post by A Perfect Circle)
Some serious cognitive dissonance in this thread. It's pretty obvious that, from what we know, Suarez is a far better person
I think I'm the only one who hasn't said Giggs is the worse person. Even if others condemn Suarez more they are in a small minority. I don't see how my views are some "serious cognitive dissonance". Neither have I said Suarez is the worst person.

I prefer Giggs as a footballer, and his behaviour on the pitch, which is ultimately all I can judge them on. As people I can't judge either as I don't know them.

I can be more critical and condemning of "my own" players, than players of other clubs. Even Liverpool players. But only for footballing reasons.

(Original post by White Dress)
River said Suarez is a scrote for handballing (presumably in the WC vs Ghana) ffs. I would do that 100 times out of 100 for my country and never feel a tinge of regret. That doesn't make you a scrote, it makes you a hero and a winner.
Firstly, let me say that I defended Suarez at the time. I said that I can't say I wouldn't have acted the same if I was in the same position. You act according to instinct, your desire to win is so strong.

In fact, and apologies for bringing personal experience into this, when captaining my team in a school inter-house final (MANY years ago) I distinctly remember instructing a player to commit a professional foul should he need to.

So, no, I'm not referring solely to that handball.

Nevertheless, IF I had done this, I certainly wouldn't have viewed it as some noble, heroic act. It wasn't.

But regardless of what you think about it, to suggest that a footballing act is indicative of a bad personality shows the desperation in his argument.
You clearly haven't been reading or understanding my point, and it's not a difficult one. I've said I don't know Giggs so can't comment on his personality or character. Similarly Suarez. How does this mean I'm suggesting that football acts are indicative of a bad personality?

(Original post by White Dress)
Fwiw I don't exactly agree with everything Wilf has said, just that River has come across fairly pretentious and unrealistic here. Pretend that you have more life experience/are mature than all of us (judge us all in the process, exactly what you believe in not doing) but appreciate that your view is idealised and that you are actually just dodging the question.
Isn't personal experience important here? After all, I'm being directly asked what I do or don't want? Surely in order to answer that fairly I would need personal experience of both? The point about Samaritans wasn't meant in any pretentious way, it was to explain and emphasise the point that I try and remain non-judgemental in such matters. I think it's important when you don't know the people involved or situation.

Not dodging the question the question at all. I've answered them quite clearly. It's just not every question can be answered with a simple yes or no,

But yes, let's pretend the world is black and white. Let's pretend we know everyone and everything and can comment on the matters.

Anyway, I'm leaving this here as it's become circular and I know at least one of you is trying to wum. Just thought I'd introduce some interest discussion in the thread.
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A Perfect Circle
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#130
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#130
(Original post by River85)
I think I'm the only one who hasn't said Giggs is the worse person. Even if others condemn Suarez more they are in a small minority. I don't see how my views are some "serious cognitive dissonance". Neither have I said Suarez is the worst person.

I prefer Giggs as a footballer, and his behaviour on the pitch, which is ultimately all I can judge them on. As people I can't judge either as I don't know them.

I can be more critical and condemning of "my own" players, than players of other clubs. Even Liverpool players. But only for footballing reasons.


Anyway, I'm leaving this here as it's become circular and I know at least one of you is trying to wum. Just thought I'd introduce some interest discussion in the thread.
Oh no you don't. You're not getting the moral high ground with that post.

Because what you've essentially been saying throughout this thread is that you think how a person acts on a football pitch is not only more indicative of their actual character but also more important than how they act in real life.

You're trying to sneak your way out of this by saying we don't know what mischief goes on in Suarez's personal life and that is true. But to then follow up by saying we can't judge either one on their "extra-curricular" activities is patent nonsense.

The fact is we do know what Giggs has done for 8 years. And you trying to tell us to forget what he's done and just focus on how they act on the pitch is downright ludicrous.

Now that I've got that out of the way - you have some tasty musical taste. Robert Fripp is a god.
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Malevolent
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#131
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#131
Oh boy
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Autistic Merit
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#132
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#132
I would trust Giggs more than Suarez so he gets my vote.
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A Perfect Circle
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#133
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#133
(Original post by Autistic Merit)
I would trust Giggs more than Suarez so he gets my vote.
I'm sorry but yet again, this is absurd.

Suarez has done some terrible things absolutely, but on every occasion that comes to my mind, he's done them in an ill-guided attempt to benefit his team.

When he bites, he bites his opponents, generally out of frustration with his own inability to help his team in that particular game. Again, not defending his actions, just explaining them.

The alleged racism was again to an opponent. I can't be sure whether Suarez has racially abused his black teammates but I don't believe he has and even then it's irrelevant - innocent till proven guilty.

Now Giggs' turn. Oh boy.

Well I'll just focus on the main one. An 8 year long betrayal of his own flesh and blood done purely for his own pleasure.

You're meant to trust your friends, not your enemies. If either Suarez or Giggs was an enemy, you'd be right not to trust them. If Suarez or Giggs was a friend, based on what we know, you'd be a damned fool to trust Giggs more than Suarez.
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Malevolent
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#134
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#134
(Original post by Autistic Merit)
I would trust Giggs more than Suarez so he gets my vote.
Aye and your girls probably being done with that kind of judgement :lol:
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Autistic Merit
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#135
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#135
(Original post by A Perfect Circle)

Well I'll just focus on the main one. An 8 year long betrayal of his own flesh and blood done purely for his own pleasure.
Have you got a source that confirms this affair went on for that long? If it was a persistent betrayal then, fair enough, Giggs is worse but if it was just a one-off thing then it's just a lack of judgement. In comparison, Suarez has had a lack of judgement several times a year.
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A Perfect Circle
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#136
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#136
(Original post by Autistic Merit)
Have you got a source that confirms this affair went on for that long? If it was a persistent betrayal then, fair enough, Giggs is worse but if it was just a one-off thing then it's just a lack of judgement. In comparison, Suarez has had a lack of judgement several times a year.


It says 8 years in the vid description and I don't think she's refuted it.

The thing is it's a massive massive lack of judgement - you can't just compare it tit for tat.

It's as if Suarez is the petty thief who steals 3/4 things a year and Giggs is the nutter who goes on a one-time killing spree at a high school.
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Autistic Merit
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#137
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#137
(Original post by A Perfect Circle)


It says 8 years in the vid description and I don't think she's refuted it.

The thing is it's a massive massive lack of judgement - you can't just compare it tit for tat.

It's as if Suarez is the petty thief who steals 3/4 things a year and Giggs is the nutter who goes on a one-time killing spree at a high school.
Is it just me or does she almost sound as if she is enjoying the public attention?
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River85
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#138
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#138
I'll reply to this as there is at least one interesting point and it's not as circular.

(Original post by A Perfect Circle)
Because what you've essentially been saying throughout this thread is that you think how a person acts on a football pitch is not only more indicative of their actual character but also more important than how they act in real life.
Sorry, but it's certainly not,. It's saying that I have no complaints or criticisms about Giggs the football player. I do about Suarez, even if he may, at times, be misunderstood
. I don't know either of them personally so can't comment on their character or personalty.

Never have I said that how a footballer conducts himself on the football field is indicative of his personality. Though I don't believe one mistake means a man should be totally condemned, whatever that one mistake is. But that's a general point. Again, I don't know what else, if anything, Giggs has done.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

You're trying to sneak your way out of this by saying we don't know what mischief goes on in Suarez's personal life and that is true. But to then follow up by saying we can't judge either one on their "extra-curricular" activities is patent nonsense.
How is it nonsense? No one has explained this? How is it nonsense when we don't know everything about what happened or the people involved:? Why is it anyone's business? Why can't it just be kept between Giggs and his brother/family? These are the people who are directly involved and do know the situation.

Sorry for sounding like a stuck record, but no one is really discussing this. Instead it's just a "let's **** off Giggs and (sometimes) Suarez" thread -which isn't discussion.

The fact is we do know what Giggs has done for 8 years. And you trying to tell us to forget what he's done and just focus on how they act on the pitch is downright ludicrous.
We perhaps don't know the full story (I certainly don't as pay no attention to celebrity gossip bull. I had more important things going on in my life).

We don't know what really happened. The emotions involved. The events. They are called "private lives" for a reason.

Now that I've got that out of the way - you have some tasty musical taste. Robert Fripp is a god.
Yeah, but it's not an exhaustive list of great guitarists. It's a handful I could find half decent videos for at the time. I was going to rotate them and include others (see the it may change comment) but could never be bothered in the end.

That was in relation to my sig. No idea if you've seen it (I couldn't remember if Robert Fripp was in that) or you were just referring to my location.

Back to the thread...

(Original post by A Perfect Circle)
I'm sorry but yet again, this is absurd.

Suarez has done some terrible things absolutely, but on every occasion that comes to my mind, he's done them in an ill-guided attempt to benefit his team.
OK....

Well I'll just focus on the main one. An 8 year long betrayal of his own flesh and blood done purely for his own pleasure.
Right. Now, although affairs can just happen, and reasons aren't always selfish (people do fall in love and you often have no control over who you fall in love with) let's accept that Giggs did the affair just for pure selfishness and pleasure.

How do you actually know Suarez does the (very public) things he does on the .football pitch to "benefit his own team". And not for his own personal glory. Or because of his temperament?

You're meant to trust your friends, not your enemies. If either Suarez or Giggs was an enemy, you'd be right not to trust them. If Suarez or Giggs was a friend, based on what we know, you'd be a damned fool to trust Giggs more than Suarez.
Meh. For Giggs' friends to comment on. I don't know what he's like.

There are far more important things in this world. Things that actually direct affect and damage you and/or people you care about. Personally I'd spend more time worrying about that than getting involved in celebrity gossip and judging people and situations you don't know. Before you know it it may be too late and the damage is permanent...
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barnetlad
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#139
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#139
I chose Suarez, as his misdemeanours have only been on the football field. Even Henry VIII, who was often an unpleasant man, waited until his brother was dead before having sex with his brother's wife.
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jam278
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#140
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#140
Yeah about the handball thing.

I'm Ghanaian and I gained respect for Suarez for that. I love him man.
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