Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Cheers, of course you have no idea why or how it happened but using it as an ad hominem in your response is of course the best way to go about things

    Anyway, you're clearly just a d-bag, I'm not wasting my time replying to you.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Not an ad hominem at all. Your whole argument pivots on being a top graduate from a top university in CS. Even if we exclude your hiccup, it's still not fair to make the generalisation about CS in general.

    Nonetheless, that's fine. I think I'm done here.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Arsonist)
    They tend to prefer to hire maths and physics graduates who can program above CS graduates.

    Seems you're quick to defend your choices on information from quora and the like that is now outdated.
    Not really sure what people are talking about here. For a start a Computer science degree will get you first pick for these jobs over physics/maths grads, the majority of people I've worked with are comp science degree holders of course having any of those degrees will get you a shot at the job though. Secondly getting hired in a computer science job is easy if you have any projects under your belt and as soon as you have industry experience it's one of the easiest sectors to get a job in in the UK.

    Thirdly if you specialize you find jobs even easier, I usually takes at least 6 months to replace someone for a role and the more specialized the role it can easily take years to find the person and many more for them to get up to scratch. Also by specializing, this is how you earn the six figure salaries, entirely normal in the realm of enterprise business software. LinkedIn is practically full of such offers and they will salivate at the mere mention of a native having these skills as a lot of the people vying for these jobs are not natural English speakers.

    Outsourcing is not as much of a problem as it was 15 years ago and although outsourcing is increasing (slightly), it's still nothing compared to the projected growth of the industry and the number of mid-high level job openings that keep popping up. Everyone I work with gets at least 5 phonecalls (often more) from recruiters on their WORK line each week.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Try laughing when the reason behind it was out of your control; it'd be super hilarious then.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Well I managed 6As at A-level as my parents went through a messy and acrimonious divorce, finished as the top student on the maths course with the second highest entry requirements in the country whilst living with the poverty and emotional/financial fall out of that. So whilst I'm sympathetic, the fact that you got to retake means you had/have more support than I've ever got. Plus you've been more than quick to judge in my case as to why 25k starting salaries just don't cut it.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    Well I managed 6As at A-level as my parents went through a messy and acrimonious divorce, finished as the top student on the maths course with the second highest entry requirements in the country whilst living with the poverty and emotional/financial fall out of that. So whilst I'm sympathetic, the fact that you got to retake means you had/have more support than I've ever got. Plus you've been more than quick to judge in my case as to why 25k starting salaries just don't cut it.
    A divorce is not what caused it.. But cheers for telling me your life story.

    EDIT: Ok that sounded really bad, I'm sorry. Congrats on getting so far in life man, you've deserved every achievement you have gotten. I'm paying for my retake (even though, I shouldn't, I should actually be taking my school to court) by myself and have gone through more breakdowns this year than I can count. It just doesn't seem fair to pick something personal out without any prior knowledge of what caused it and stick it in an argument. You of course wouldn't like anyone to crap on your struggles, so why laugh?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Arsonist)
    I wonder if low intellectual capacity counts as a factor beyond one's control.

    I mean, some would still find it appropriate to laugh.
    Please just bugger off already.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Arsonist)
    I wonder if low intellectual capacity counts as a factor beyond one's control.

    I mean, some would still find it appropriate to laugh.
    That's a bit harsh.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    That's a bit harsh.
    I'm just curious. He's making all this effort to let us know it was beyond his control but don't make any specifics. I wonder what they are.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    A divorce is not what caused it.. But cheers for telling me your life story.

    EDIT: Ok that sounded really bad, I'm sorry. Congrats on getting so far in life man, you've deserved every achievement you have gotten. I'm paying for my retake (even though, I shouldn't, I should actually be taking my school to court) by myself and have gone through more breakdowns this year than I can count. It just doesn't seem fair to pick something personal out without any prior knowledge of what caused it and stick it in an argument. You of course wouldn't like anyone to crap on your struggles, so why laugh?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    My apologies for laughing. No offence but given your posts I assumed I was dealing with someone older who had experience of the employment market. It is dangerous to offer advice when you don't have experience of what you are talking about. I may be wrong in my opinions but at least it comes from my perception of my experiences.

    I wish you all the best with your studies. Instead of wasting your energy trying to take your school to court, why not teach yourself your highers? (I went to an underperforming FE college and taught myself my A-levels). I work as a tutor in maths, physics and I could probably do chemistry and biology as well. So if you are stuck with anything in these subjects feel free to PM me.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    My apologies for laughing. No offence but given your posts I assumed I was dealing with someone older who had experience of the employment market. It is dangerous to offer advice when you don't have experience of what you are talking about. I may be wrong in my opinions but at least it comes from my perception of my experiences.

    I wish you all the best with your studies. Instead of wasting your energy trying to take your school to court, why not teach yourself your highers? (I went to an underperforming FE college and taught myself my A-levels). I work as a tutor in maths, physics and I could probably do chemistry and biology as well. So if you are stuck with anything in these subjects feel free to PM me.
    Yeah, I'm teaching myself A-levels (well, only one, I've covered Maths already) and paying for the extra tuition when I need it. Thanks for the offer.

    I have some pretty close friends that have started jobs at tech companies (think: Google/Facebook) and I regurlarly speak to a senior engineer I've been networking with. My opinions aren't formed from thin air.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Yeah, I'm teaching myself A-levels (well, only one, I've covered Maths already) and paying for the extra tuition when I need it. Thanks for the offer.

    I have some pretty close friends that have started jobs at tech companies (think: Google/Facebook) and I regurlarly speak to a senior engineer I've been networking with. My opinions aren't formed from thin air.
    Have you physically worked with the senior engineer or did you just find the poor bloke online haha?

    What do you mean, specifically, with the term, 'networking', just saying hello every now and then, or..?

    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrojanH)
    Have you physically worked with the senior engineer or did you just find the poor bloke online haha?

    What do you mean, specifically, with the term, 'networking', just saying hello every now and then, or..?

    Met him when I was MIT for the startup accelerator programme. He was a mentor for my startup, so helped me out through the development stage of our product.

    As in, a proper mentor relationship where we discuss about career advice, looking for opportunities as well as the trivial personal stuff.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Met him when I was MIT for the startup accelerator programme. He was a mentor for my startup, so helped me out through the development stage of our product.

    As in, a proper mentor relationship where we discuss about career advice, looking for opportunities as well as the trivial personal stuff.
    Sounds awesome man. Did you actually get to go MIT, or just an online thing?

    I guess I already do that (networking). Through LinkedIn. Suppose' it doesn't count, because I haven't actually worked with any of them haha.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrojanH)
    Sounds awesome man. Did you actually get to go MIT, or just an online thing?

    I guess I already do that (networking). Through LinkedIn. Suppose' it doesn't count, because I haven't actually worked with any of them haha.
    Yeah, it was very competitive (c.12% acceptance rate) and I spent 7 weeks on campus.

    I'd focus on finding people you know of (either through parents/friends) first before venturing into Linkedin. But, really, you'll need to give these people a reason to speak to you - they're not always going to respond to a randomer.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Yeah, it was very competitive (c.12% acceptance rate) and I spent 7 weeks on campus.

    I'd focus on finding people you know of (either through parents/friends) first before venturing into Linkedin. But, really, you'll need to give these people a reason to speak to you - they're not always going to respond to a randomer.
    Yeah I know what you mean. I don't know why they've chosen to speak with a randomer, but I've talked to these guys a fair bit and they seem decent enough, so why not haha.

    As for actual friends/family in careers I want to be in, no chance. That's why I've gotta look into these cool things, as you have done, with the startup programmes and whatnot.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    As others have said, it's YOU who get the job, not your degree. The correlation between having a CS degree and not getting a job is just *******s.

    As for 25k being a bad starter salary. Well. It's your starting salary. You won't get much more unless you work for a big consulting company or in banking.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Speckle)
    I don't know that much, but to me it sounds like the personal projects are far more important than the degree. Is there a difference between a CS degree with personal projects and say a Maths degree with the same personal projects?
    90% of jobs that ask for compsci will also take apps from maths grads
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    There seems to be a lot of opinions and generalisations here instead of actual factual and/or supported claims.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by High Stakes)
    There seems to be a lot of opinions and generalisations here instead of actual factual and/or supported claims.
    Thought that's what forums were about? If you like facts then according to some studies it is a fact computer science has one the worst employment rates of any degree. Why that is, universities or employers have little interest in finding out.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    Thought that's what forums were about? If you like facts then according to some studies it is a fact computer science has one the worst employment rates of any degree. Why that is, universities or employers have little interest in finding out.
    I think it has to be down to how Comp Sci is taught differently depending on the university. At some universities it's mathematical and theory-oriented whereas at others it's an IT degree focused on programming.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A Dev)
    I think engineering is an example where a very complex subject has seen a great drop in graduates taking those courses. Industry is now paying the price for the complacency of companies expecting a continual flow of talent without enough reward.

    I started as an engineer years ago but soon realised that as part of that role I also needed to write software and yet I was being paid less than those at the same company who ONLY wrote software.

    Word spreads, parents tell their children .. do not go there it is an underpaid discipline and very difficult work. Job satisfaction doesnt pay the bills or for holidays unfortunately.

    So i moved to software and have worked as a permie, contractor and for consultancies so have experience of the different viewpoints of each type of role. Software development and support is now in danger of losing its supply of uk talent, there is plenty of evidence why Computing Science grads have the highest unemployment rate and it isnt due to their lack of enthusiasm it is due to market conditions.
    Also it does not take too long to train a grad in a new tool if the company is willing to pay. UK IT graduates should not be expected to be at a high level of proficiency for an entry level role, training should be provided.
    In my opinion IT is going the way of engineering in the uk soon with respect to uk graduates unless companies start employing them soon instead of recruiting from offshore. Unlike engineering however the IT industry will suffer less due to their alternative supply of profitable labour.
    I have worked with an offshore developer in a small consultancy after his recruitment the directors tried to 'persuade' a uk developer with a family to feed to leave causing him to have a breakdown, needless to say I stook up for him absolutely deplorable behaviour. I have worked in a couple of medium size development houses as permie and contractor with a separate team of offshore developers working in a separate room. I have worked in a large company where the whole of our team of experienced developers were made redundant so the work could be moved to their offshore base.

    There is a lot to be said about the satisfaction you can get from designing and producing software compared to another pen pushing job, however when the pay falls short of such less complex jobs and management have profits through wages in mind now in the uk it industry you can easily see the number of uk IT graduates falling over time.
    Re highest unemployment rate of IT graduates..it is cheaper to hire offshore workers than train up graduates.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources

    Featured recruiter profiles:

    CGI logo

    CGI is open for applications

    "Offering a range of apprentice and sponsored degree positions."

    Quick link:

    Unanswered IT and technology threads

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.