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What percentage of blame, if at all any, rests with the victim during rape? Watch

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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    Any evidence to support that claim though?



    Whilst I think that is particularly true for some cases of sexual harassment-i,e grabbing, verbal assault etc, I'm not so sure about rape. Rape is not often a case of the man not being physically able to help himself, it's far more complex than that. Rape is very often about power and control, that's why the majority of male rapists (as in males who rape other males) aren't even gay (http://www.secasa.com.au/pages/myths-about-male-rape/). They rape another man because it's seen as the most extreme exertion of power over another man, kind of like 'taking away his manhood'.

    I think saying that showing a lot of flesh increases the chance of rape, is a bit dodgy, too reductionist and suggests men are somehow less developed than they actually are, human beings aren't animals, we have a very good sense of control over ourselves. Rapists rape because they want to, not because they just couldn't control themselves. The rapist would have raped the victim whether her top was low cut, or not. That's what I think anyway.
    I would agree that how you dress is probably not a risk factor, but it is a bit ridiculous to say that women can do nothing to avoid being raped, at least in a certain proportion of cases. Rapists are normally opportunists, and it is pretty obvious that a woman who is stumbling home drunk alone up a dark alley is an easier target than a more sober woman in a group or a cab.

    Of course this doesn't actually apply in most cases of rape which are not by random strangers in an alley, but to be honest people should already be taking similar precautions to avoid getting mugged.
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    It makes me sick that in today's society we still make excuses for rapists. The victim isn't to blame. The only person to blame for rape is the perpetrator. End of.
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    (Original post by lucaf)
    I would agree that how you dress is probably not a risk factor, but it is a bit ridiculous to say that women can do nothing to avoid being raped, at least in a certain proportion of cases. Rapists are normally opportunists, and it is pretty obvious that a woman who is stumbling home drunk alone up a dark alley is an easier target than a more sober woman in a group or a cab.

    Of course this doesn't actually apply in most cases of rape which are not by random strangers in an alley, but to be honest people should already be taking similar precautions to avoid getting mugged.

    Did I say that?


    I agree being drunk makes you more vulnerable, as it does with being mugged, violently attacked, etc. I just don't think showing more flesh really makes you more vulnerable. And what do you mean most rapists are opportunist, where did you get that from?
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Pro-tip: best way of avoiding being murdered is pre-emptive suicide.

    Another solution to rape would be to castrate every man alive. its true.
    Choosing a different street to go down because you fear you might be harmed otherwise isn't really comparable to burning all of your possessions to prevent theft, or either of the examples you've posted. It's actually a pretty logical thing to do. Does it impinge on my freedoms? Yeah, I suppose it does, but shouting "BUT I SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO WALK DOWN THIS ALLEY!" at the bloke mugging me isn't going to stop him.

    Obviously, saying "Pshh, she was wearing some slutty dress, she was begging for it." or "Stupid broad, she shouldn't have walked down that back-alley, she deserved it." is abhorrent; I haven't seen anyone in the thread doing that (haven't read the whole thread, though).

    All I'm saying (and I can only speak for myself here), is that I would have avoided any dodgy-looking streets if I was walking home alone in the middle of the night. Other people can do whatever the @#!*% they want.

    P.S. This is only with regards to the choosing-a-safer-looking-street concept. As for what people wear, I'm pretty sure there have been numerous studies showing that wearing revealing clothing doesn't increase the chance of rape (or something to that effect), so it's irrelevant.
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    Any evidence to support that claim though?

    Whilst I think that is particularly true for some cases of sexual harassment-i,e grabbing, verbal assault etc, I'm not so sure about rape. Rape is not often a case of the man not being physically able to help himself, it's far more complex than that. Rape is very often about power and control, that's why the majority of male rapists (as in males who rape other males) aren't even gay (http://www.secasa.com.au/pages/myths-about-male-rape/). They rape another man because it's seen as the most extreme exertion of power over another man, kind of like 'taking away his manhood'.
    I wasn't referring to dress. Behaviour that could reduce a chance of rape could be things like sticking with a group of friends when walking around late at night, when walking around at night staying in week lit areas with other people around, taking a taxi if possible, etc... You know, he usual measures you would take to try and limit the chance of being mugged or attacked.
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    Did I say that?


    I agree being drunk makes you more vulnerable, as it does with being mugged, violently attacked, etc. I just don't think showing more flesh really makes you more vulnerable. And what do you mean most rapists are opportunist, where did you get that from?
    I didn't say you did say that, but you responded to a post saying that women can do things to avoid being raped by saying clothing has no effect, I was simply saying how there are things women can do to stay safe that have nothing to do with clothing. Which is something you clearly agree with, so I am not sure why you seemed against that initial post

    as for rapists being opportunists, I would think that most rapes occur because the rapist found somebody vulnerable and then pounced on the opportunity. If they are not then I would have to change my opinion that clothing has no effect, because then I imagine rapists would be more selective with their victims rather than just going for whoever is unlucky enough to find themselves alone with them.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    x
    (had deleted my comment as I was in the process of making another reply to another comment that made original one moot)

    Fair play, I concede I was wrong. I actually thought most of the non-domestic rape incidents would have been from a stranger (which is surprising considering the rape-prevention PHSE sessions seemed to be carry a whistle, avoid dark alleys, etc)
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Really, would they???

    That girl with one arm received a loooot of sympathy despite losing it on a beach where shark attacks are known to occurr.

    No one called her an idiot for getting back to surfing again either.
    I did
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    None what so ever. Men should be taught not to rape, rather than women being taught not to get raped - only those who commit rape can completely prevent it from happening, no matter what the victim wears, where they walk, or what time they travel at.
    That's patronising and insulting. I do not need to be taught not to rape. The men who do rape are not going to respond to nicey-nice education campaigns, particularly not those organised by feminists. They will respond only to prison.
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    This seems outrageous. Is there any justification for putting some blame on rape victim or indeed any circumstances where a rape victim is partly to blame?
    Instinctively you think not, but there does appear to be a bit of a double standard when it comes to alcohol. There have been rape convictions where sex occurred between 2 drunk people. The woman was considered too drunk to make informed consent although she has no real recollection of what happened or whether she made any attempt to refuse sex. The man's drunkenness does not seem to be any defence for him - the logic seem to be if he was still capable of performing he should be sober enough to get some form of active proof of consent before proceeding.

    Clearly having sex with an unconscious body is rape, but I think there's a fairly grey area in between which women have to have some responsibility for.
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    (Original post by Compost)
    Instinctively you think not, but there does appear to be a bit of a double standard when it comes to alcohol. There have been rape convictions where sex occurred between 2 drunk people. The woman was considered too drunk to make informed consent although she has no real recollection of what happened or whether she made any attempt to refuse sex. The man's drunkenness does not seem to be any defence for him - the logic seem to be if he was still capable of performing he should be sober enough to get some form of active proof of consent before proceeding.

    Clearly having sex with an unconscious body is rape, but I think there's a fairly grey area in between which women have to have some responsibility for.
    Excellent point, if she says yes, it's unreasonable to expect the man to carry out a psychological test to see if she has made an informed decision or not. She could say yes giving the wrong impression but have no recollection in the morning causing her to cry 'rape'. It doesn't help as there's no ruling on what exactly needs to be obtained before deciding it's a definite, informed yes or not.
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    Surely the victim is not to blame at all...
    People say a lot of stuff, like the person who said the best solution would be to castrate all men/teach men not to rape. Hah. What a joke. It's not as though men have it wired in them to rape women, clearly anybody who is a rapist is a mentally ****** up person who deserves to be locked up for life...but that has no representation of the entire male population.
    And I don't really get the idea that women should cover up in order to avoid rape, as though that makes it somewhat their fault. Of course, it is down to everybody how they dress, be that conservatively or more revealing. And yes, somebody who is wearing more revealing clothing would receive more attention. But it doesn't make them to blame, as though they would foresee that they got raped. It still makes the rapist entirely​ at fault...if somebody says no, it means no, end of, no questions asked.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Really, would they???

    That girl with one arm received a loooot of sympathy despite losing it on a beach where shark attacks are known to occurr.

    No one called her an idiot for getting back to surfing again either.
    Maybe because she is a girl.
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    (Original post by ROONEY-9-MUTD)
    Maybe because she is a girl.
    So are the vast majority of the people who get raped?
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    (Original post by lucaf)
    I would agree that how you dress is probably not a risk factor, but it is a bit ridiculous to say that women can do nothing to avoid being raped, at least in a certain proportion of cases. Rapists are normally opportunists, and it is pretty obvious that a woman who is stumbling home drunk alone up a dark alley is an easier target than a more sober woman in a group or a cab.

    Of course this doesn't actually apply in most cases of rape which are not by random strangers in an alley, but to be honest people should already be taking similar precautions to avoid getting mugged.
    I'd take the walk home any day over a lift home in a cab with a guy I don't know well/someone offering to walk me back.
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    How much blame does the victim get? None as far as I'm aware. I guess it may depend on the situation and there are probably circumstances where the victim could have been more responsible, but I can't think of any examples.

    Anyone say anything about clothing and you're a ****ing tool. Exposed skin and tight clothes do not provoke or justify rape.

    We should learn to defend ourselves in these situations, but people should learn not to rape in the ****ing first place as well.

    Sorry for the language.

    But I don't think it's really the victim's fault. We should be supportive of them.
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    I think that's a terrible analogy.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I'd take the walk home any day over a lift home in a cab with a guy I don't know well/someone offering to walk me back.
    Fair enough, that may well be safer. But the point is you are still making a calculation to minimize risk.
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    Why are there people saying that people should be taught on how to prevent it? Sorry, are you going to go to a 7 year old and give them a prep talk on how to tell if someone is going to rape them? No matter how many precautions you take it can still happen, and why should the victim have any blame? A lot of victims believe that it is their fault but it never is.
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    (Original post by lucaf)
    Fair enough, that may well be safer. But the point is you are still making a calculation to minimize risk.
    True, but maybe some people are just a bit **** at doing that. I certainly know people who are!
 
 
 
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