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Feminism = Female Supremacism: Men are the weaker sex. Watch

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    One 'feminist' who completely misunderstands feminism does not define all of us.

    Feminism, by definition, is the pursuit of EQUALITY between the sexes.

    Why would we want to be equal to men if we thought they were weaker than us?!
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    Girls – how we worry away at them. Too fat, too thin, insufficiently sexually empowered, too hyperbolically sexually active. And, yet, from birth, boys are eminently and demonstrably more vulnerable. In an article in the British Medical Journal published in 2000, consultant child and adolescent psychiatrist, Sebastian Kraemer, posited the notion of "the fragile male". Here he showed that, contra to patriarchal propaganda, it is the male not the female of the species that is the weaker sex.

    In his precis, he argued: "The human male is, on most measures, more vulnerable than the female. Part of the explanation is the biological fragility of the male fetus … A typical attitude to boys is that they are, or must be made, more resilient than girls. This adds social insult to biological injury."

    He goes on to elaborate that male babies are more likely to be born prematurely or at risk of developmental disorders such as autism. They boast poor motor and cognitive regulation, leading to misjudgment of risk, encouraging accidents, crime, drug-taking and violence. They kill themselves and die in greater numbers – patterns that continue into adult life. Even merely at an environmental level, boys appear to suffer more from asthma, exposure to lead, insecticides and plasticisers.

    Kraemer's thesis was supported in 2013 by a report published in Pediatrics, which came to strikingly similar conclusions, based on new statistics. Dr Chris Feudtner, a paediatrician at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, who led the study, remarked: "This could be a story of resilience and ability to overcome. Maybe there's some robustness factor that males are missing?"

    This what the journalist wrote. Isn't she saying that we worry too much about girls and should be worrying more about boys?

    Why are people objecting to that? We do need to concern ourselves more about boys' problems don't we? They do have a higher suicide risk for example. I think she is trying to draw our attention to the problems boys have and which are largely ignored because we think of them as physically stronger than girls, though the stats don't bear it out (except for muscle strength.)
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    I get it perfectly. Feminism is an ideology that is fundamentally just wrong.

    YouTube "Brainwash: The Gender Equality Paradox". It's a superb documentary that absolutely rips to pieces the feminist regime in Norway and uses plenty of credible evidence in the process. It was so influential that the Norwegian government defunded gender equality programs as a result.

    I'll post a thread all about it next week when I have access to my laptop and aren't bashing out my posts on Tapatalk.

    You still missed the point of my original post
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    You still missed the point of my original post
    What original post? We're on page 13 now and Tapatalk is a nightmare at the moment.

    If you can condense your OP into a few sentences that'd be grand.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    What original post? We're on page 13 now and Tapatalk is a nightmare at the moment.

    If you can condense your OP into a few sentences that'd be grand.
    ermahgerd, you're using one case to judge the group.

    there you go.
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    (Original post by justanotherposter)
    Haven't really looked at TSR for a while, good to see that it's exactly the same.

    Quote one feminist, claim that somehow represents all feminist views, feminists get angry, non-feminists get angry, arguments happen, thread ends after a while and then another one starts the next day and so the cycle repeats.
    Brilliant isn't it!

    People freely debating sociological theories in an open and frank manner.

    One reason I have stuck around and been active on the forum since joining.


    All change in history, all advance, comes from nonconformity. If there had been no troublemakers, no dissenters, we should still be living in caves.”
    ~ Historian A. J. P. Taylor

    These discussions provide a vehicle for views to be openly challenged!

    Thank [insert deity or science here] we do not live in a society with widespread censorship where opinion is suppressed.
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    (Original post by Olie)
    Yep, this. Just like you shouldn't label all Muslims as terrorists, you shouldn't label all feminists as man-haters, yet its typical of the guys on here to make that ignorant mistake
    Nice sweeping statement slating and stereotyping a whole gender! Are assumptions solely based on gender not one issue feminism is supposed to be addressing.

    I have read two comments today calling people 'anti-women' for disagreeing with feminism. This wrongly assumes/insinuates #1: All women are feminists, #2: All people who disagree with feminism are against woman (I disagree with feminism on so many levels but would take great offence to the notion that I do not respect women) #3: Lastly this statement assumes that only through feminism can equality be promoted in society.

    The statements I read were written by women, so in the same way I fully realise the statements I read do not represent 'all women'. It is wrong for you to say a statement by one male is 'typical of males'.
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    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    There is a lot that is left to deal with they may not seem as important as the issues that need tackling in other countries such as malala yousafzai being shot in the head because her culture doesn't think women have the same rights to education as boys but there are still a lot of sexist constructs and attitudes in society. I'm not going to tell you to read the everyday sexism project because for some of the cases yeah I do agree that it's less sexism more over sensitivity/ that guy was a douche but there is a lack of respect for women still in society.

    When I was growing up all I was bombarded with was messages that the only thing I was good for was to look good, get married and have a man look after me, that my role was a caring role and I should be focusing on domestic things, intelligence isn't attractive yeah don't be a stupid bimbo but don't be more intelligent/stronger/better at anything than a man because he'll be put off and you'll die a lonely old spinster. Dress a certain way, act a certain way the pressure for women is absolutely enormous women can't win and it needs to stop. Men are not put under as much scrutiny you only have to read articles on fairly incredible women and the main things that are mentioned is how they look and it needs to stop don't get me wrong I think it's becoming more common for men to be objectified and be reduced down to how good their abs are but I don't agree with that either.

    There are certain things women are still not able to do like fighting on the front line, if women can pass the physical tests they should be allowed.
    I don't agree with the whole gender-pay gap thing because women are less likely go into higher paid careers but I think the REASONING behind why needs to be addressed some don't because they're simply not interested in those sorts of careers but for others I know it was through fear of social rejection and I think women are as much to blame as men. However why are men being paid more for the same role and same job requirements as a woman and it does happen a lot. Women make other women feel bad and it's because every woman is seen as competition, how can you have women supporting each other when we're being pitted against each other? That's wear feminism is needed not just to "fight the patriarchy" but to help other women support women.


    Basically freeing people from gender roles, gender stereotypes being that I'm not good at something because I'm female and doubting something I've told someone because "women don't know about that sort of stuff" or that I'll be good at cooking or cleaning because it's "women's work" and it helps men wouldn't it be nice if it was widely accepted that men were just as good at women at looking after their children? That the child shouldn't automatically live with it's mother?

    I think it's really misrepresented as women kicking up a fuss over nothing or crazy man-hating women but fighting every day against sexism, sexist jokes that aren't funny, sexual assault i.e people thinking it's ok to slap you on the bottom ( I know this happens to men too), people assuming you'll be staying at home looking after the children - you're lazy and have no ambition if you do and if you don't you're a monster who shouldn't have had children btw there are just so many reasons and they might be minor but added together it becomes a problem.

    Again I'm not comparing it to places where a major change of attitudes towards women is needed but just because we have a decent amount of equality it doesn't mean we should just stop and put up and shut up.
    You seem to have good intentions and I agree with certain aspects of your post but there are some inaccurate assumptions too.


    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    There is a lot that is left to deal with they may not seem as important as the issues that need tackling in other countries such as malala yousafzai being shot in the head because her culture doesn't think women have the same rights to education as boys but there are still a lot of sexist constructs and attitudes in society
    The vast majority of statements I hear from feminists, do not focus on these atrocities.

    If you look at this link where thousands of women say why they are feminists, the very important and horrific stuff you mentioned is not the focus or even close to being the focus. I read through the first 50 or so and there was no mention of the noble concerns you point out. I as a non-feminists am utterly outraged at the treatment of 'Malala Yousafzai' and the girls abducted by 'Boko Haram'. I definitely do not need feminism to feel this way.

    As i said in the first 50 or so I read none of the issues you mention are raised, these ones however are....

    "I need feminism because my women's studies degree is just as valid as any other degree"

    "I need feminism because having STD's should be a badge of honour not a stigma"

    "I need feminism because if you honk I might fall off my bike"

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    there are still a lot of sexist constructs and attitudes in society
    This happens both ways and a movement advocating the reversal of issues afflicting one of the genders and causing division is not the best method to bring about equality for both of the sexes.

    The same reason feminism never gets bent out of shape over; domestic violence against men, male genital mutilation, longer prison sentences against men for comparable crimes, men being treated unfairly in family courts etc etc etc Is the same reason I will never support feminism. It is not about gender equality, it is about equality for women. If feminism truly strove for equality for both sexes I would be firmly behind it!

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    but there is a lack of respect for women still in society
    There is no more a 'lack of respect for women' than a 'lack of respect for men'. (If you are talking about western society, if not refer to my first response in this post). This video shows that there is not a 'widespread societal attitude of disrespect toward women'. There are issues were women are **** on and issues were men are **** on and both need to be addressed under a banner of equal of opportunity and treatment for both genders. I truly believe in equality and I do not was a 'men's rights' movement to achieved this and I do not was a 'women's rights' movement to achieve this. This should be done using a non gender dividing approach that demands equality and fair treatment for both sexes.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    When I was growing up all I was bombarded with was messages that the only thing I was good for was to look good, get married and have a man look after me, that my role was a caring role and I should be focusing on domestic things
    General attitudes certainly were discriminatory in the past and there was a valid place for feminism in western society, do you not feel these attitudes have 'by and large' been addressed?

    My partner wanted to stay at home and look after the kids for a couple of years, she done this and experienced some very discriminatory treatment from feminist attitudes for freely making the 'wrong choice'. Is feminism not about the freedom of women to choose which roles they wish to undertake? She wanted to spend time and instil the values she cherished in our children and had no problem successfully completing a physics degree when she decided to.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    Dress a certain way, act a certain way the pressure for women is absolutely enormous women can't win and it needs to stop.
    I have seen plenty feminists only add to this problem by deeming women who dress provacitely as conforming to stereotypes and promoting objectification.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    Men are not put under as much scrutiny you only have to read articles on fairly incredible women and the main things that are mentioned is how they look and it needs to stop
    There is an element of truth in this but there are plenty women in Scottish politics (such as Johan Lamont, Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson) 2 of which are leaders of their parties and one is the deputy leader. I am sure it happens because an odd man will hold out of date views and I am sure the odd female does the same. The tiny amount of people who will objectify these people are not representative of 'male views' which need to be challenged. Coincidently I have never personally heard anyone slate these women for their looks, just their politics.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    I think it's becoming more common for men to be objectified and be reduced down to how good their abs are but I don't agree with that either.
    This just shows it cuts both ways and does not need to be tackled from one side. For this to be eradicated a non gender specific approach that encourages people not to 'judge a book by it's cover' is needed. Personally I couldn't care if someone complimented me on a physical attribute, I would take it as a compliment and realise people do judge each other to an extent on our looks. It is a factor in chosing mates and is inherent. This will only ever totally change if evolution undoes countless years of evolution.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    There are certain things women are still not able to do like fighting on the front line, if women can pass the physical tests they should be allowed.
    I totally agree, this is not something I hear many feminists go on about though as mentioned in my link as to why women class themselves as feminists. You sound like someone who truly advocates equality in many senses and are going by the rosy version of feminism that absurdly claims it is about gender equality for both sexes. In practicality this just isn't the case.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    I don't agree with the whole gender-pay gap thing because women are less likely go into higher paid careers but I think the REASONING behind why needs to be addressed some don't because they're simply not interested in those sorts of careers but for others I know it was through fear of social rejection and I think women are as much to blame as men.
    There is legislation in place to tackle this. The 'equality act 2010' covers a lot of this. It is illegal to pay someone a different rate of pay according to gender. For example to minimum wage (wrongly in my opinion) discriminates on the grounds of age. The minimum wage is the same for each gender though. In regular 'lower skilled' wage set ups (not considering the higher echelons of business) there is not much of a pay gap, in fact there are several states in the USA where women earn more that men in these roles.

    With regards to upper business, this is a more complex issue. A US government study found that this was a bit of a myth when the real figures were equated after more females to time off to physcially give birth which a man cannot do. Due to this they were networking with colleagues less and career development suffered, it is hard to tackle this issue short of trying to implant whom's in males.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    Women make other women feel bad and it's because every woman is seen as competition, how can you have women supporting each other when we're being pitted against each other? That's wear feminism is needed not just to "fight the patriarchy" but to help other women support women.
    This is one reason that I would not identify as a feminist, feminism IMO highlights division and can paint women as helpless victims rather than empowered individuals (again I am really talking about western society and western feminism). This IMO is very damaging to women. The treatment my partner suffered from feminist attitudes of what exactly 'she should or should not be doing' were much more severe and harsh than any non feminist attitudes she encountered. Her equlity of choice and opportunity was hampered not aided by feminist attitudes.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    Basically freeing people from gender roles, gender stereotypes being that I'm not good at something because I'm female and doubting something I've told someone because "women don't know about that sort of stuff" or that I'll be good at cooking or cleaning because it's "women's work" and it helps men wouldn't it be nice if it was widely accepted that men were just as good at women at looking after their children? That the child shouldn't automatically live with it's mother?
    It would, but this is not something I hear many feminists get bent out of shape over (again I refer you to this link of feminists saying why they are feminists) . Many males are treated shoddily at best in family courts.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    people assuming you'll be staying at home looking after the children - you're lazy and have no ambition if you do and if you don't you're a monster who shouldn't have had children btw there are just so many reasons and they might be minor but added together it becomes a problem.
    Again the problems and discriminatory stereotyping attitudes my partner encountered when looking after the kids for a couple of years (entirely via her choice) before doing her degree emanated from people with feminist attitudes.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    Again I'm not comparing it to places where a major change of attitudes towards women is needed but just because we have a decent amount of equality it doesn't mean we should just stop and put up and shut up.
    Issues of discrimination on the grounds of gender, race, age, sexuality etc should always be challenged. I do not feel feminism is the vehicle I would champion to do this.
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)

    .
    I agree and disagree with you. First of all, the guardian is probably the major feminist mouthpiece in the UK (at the very least the most public one) and it is full of columnists who despise men and pretty regularly articulate exactly that. The guardian is probably the biggest reason that most people have a very bad impression to that. I also think that you fail to recognize that the vast majority of people in the west have no interest in feminism. They recognize that things are pretty much equal and there are far greater challenges to be overcome in life, and for the most part they laugh at the people who get really worked up about things like page 3 and manufactured wage gap statistics.

    That said, I think most people who are feminists are perfectly reasonable people. They tend to be young and passionate people who really just want equality. Unfortunately most feminists in the public eye are not like that. They are misandrists, just as most MRAs in the public eye are misogynists. And that is because controversy sells.


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    (Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
    That said, I think most people who are feminists are perfectly reasonable people. They tend to be young and passionate people who really just want equality. Unfortunately most feminists in the public eye are not like that. They are misandrists, just as most MRAs in the public eye are misogynists. And that is because controversy sells.
    But if there is already equality, as you said, then are these feminists actually being "perfectly reasonable"? What has made you conclude that they are reasonable immediately after acknowledging that their claims are based on trivial or non-existent issues? You've made quite the leap between those paragraphs.
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    (Original post by pickup)
    This what the journalist wrote. Isn't she saying that we worry too much about girls and should be worrying more about boys?

    Why are people objecting to that? We do need to concern ourselves more about boys' problems don't we? They do have a higher suicide risk for example. I think she is trying to draw our attention to the problems boys have and which are largely ignored because we think of them as physically stronger than girls, though the stats don't bear it out (except for muscle strength.)
    It's difficult to tell if you are feigning ignorance for its rhetorical effect or whether you genuinely can't see why a male would be concerned about this article. She is not "worrying" about males in the slightest and there is no indication of this in the article - it is dripping in sarcasm and disgust and written by an over-bearing feminist.

    However, the main issue with the article is that she is comparing two entirely different things. She is trying to compare women being physically weaker in terms of their muscular anatomy and their inferiority in sports with men's suicide/crime/violence rates and male infant's illness rates. The two are incomparable. It's a nonsensical article from start to finish with a very clear agenda.
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    It's difficult to tell if you are feigning ignorance for its rhetorical effect or whether you genuinely can't see why a male would be concerned about this article. She is not "worrying" about males in the slightest and there is no indication of this in the article - it is dripping in sarcasm and disgust and written by an over-bearing feminist.

    However, the main issue with the article is that she is comparing two entirely different things. She is trying to compare women being physically weaker in terms of their muscular anatomy and their inferiority in sports with men's suicide/crime/violence rates and male infant's illness rates. The two are incomparable. It's a nonsensical article from start to finish with a very clear agenda.
    I agree that it may seem a difficult thing for men who are used to thinking about themselves as the stronger sex and women as the weaker sex to accept that they need help in some respects.

    I think this is one of the differences between men and women maybe? Women have no problem with accepting that they need help. Maybe for men it seems like a criticism? or showing vulnerability? It may be something to explain why men find it difficult to go to the doctor's?

    She is not trying to demean men by saying men have issues too. She is trying to raise the profile of men's/boys' physical and mental wellbeing so that we treat it as seriously as we should.

    I agree with you that men should have more respect and consideration for their issues and I agree with her that we should therefore consider what to do about it.
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    (Original post by markyb76)
    You seem to have good intentions and I agree with certain aspects of your post but there are some inaccurate assumptions too.




    The vast majority of statements I hear from feminists, do not focus on these atrocities.

    If you look at this link where thousands of women say why they are feminists, the very important and horrific stuff you mentioned is not the focus or even close to being the focus. I read through the first 50 or so and there was no mention of the noble concerns you point out. I as a non-feminists am utterly outraged at the treatment of 'Malala Yousafzai' and the girls abducted by 'Boko Haram'. I definitely do not need feminism to feel this way.

    As i said in the first 50 or so I read none of the issues you mention are raised, these ones however are....

    "I need feminism because my women's studies degree is just as valid as any other degree"

    "I need feminism because having STD's should be a badge of honour not a stigma"

    "I need feminism because if you honk I might fall off my bike"



    This happens both ways and a movement advocating the reversal of issues afflicting one of the genders and causing division is not the best method to bring about equality for both of the sexes.

    The same reason feminism never gets bent out of shape over; domestic violence against men, male genital mutilation, longer prison sentences against men for comparable crimes, men being treated unfairly in family courts etc etc etc Is the same reason I will never support feminism. It is not about gender equality, it is about equality for women. If feminism truly strove for equality for both sexes I would be firmly behind it!



    There is no more a 'lack of respect for women' than a 'lack of respect for men'. (If you are talking about western society, if not refer to my first response in this post). This video shows that there is not a 'widespread societal attitude of disrespect toward women'. There are issues were women are **** on and issues were men are **** on and both need to be addressed under a banner of equal of opportunity and treatment for both genders. I truly believe in equality and I do not was a 'men's rights' movement to achieved this and I do not was a 'women's rights' movement to achieve this. This should be done using a non gender dividing approach that demands equality and fair treatment for both sexes.



    General attitudes certainly were discriminatory in the past and there was a valid place for feminism in western society, do you not feel these attitudes have 'by and large' been addressed?

    My partner wanted to stay at home and look after the kids for a couple of years, she done this and experienced some very discriminatory treatment from feminist attitudes for freely making the 'wrong choice'. Is feminism not about the freedom of women to choose which roles they wish to undertake? She wanted to spend time and instil the values she cherished in our children and had no problem successfully completing a physics degree when she decided to.



    I have seen plenty feminists only add to this problem by deeming women who dress provacitely as conforming to stereotypes and promoting objectification.



    There is an element of truth in this but there are plenty women in Scottish politics (such as Johan Lamont, Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson) 2 of which are leaders of their parties and one is the deputy leader. I am sure it happens because an odd man will hold out of date views and I am sure the odd female does the same. The tiny amount of people who will objectify these people are not representative of 'male views' which need to be challenged. Coincidently I have never personally heard anyone slate these women for their looks, just their politics.



    This just shows it cuts both ways and does not need to be tackled from one side. For this to be eradicated a non gender specific approach that encourages people not to 'judge a book by it's cover' is needed. Personally I couldn't care if someone complimented me on a physical attribute, I would take it as a compliment and realise people do judge each other to an extent on our looks. It is a factor in chosing mates and is inherent. This will only ever totally change if evolution undoes countless years of evolution.



    I totally agree, this is not something I hear many feminists go on about though as mentioned in my link as to why women class themselves as feminists. You sound like someone who truly advocates equality in many senses and are going by the rosy version of feminism that absurdly claims it is about gender equality for both sexes. In practicality this just isn't the case.



    There is legislation in place to tackle this. The 'equality act 2010' covers a lot of this. It is illegal to pay someone a different rate of pay according to gender. For example to minimum wage (wrongly in my opinion) discriminates on the grounds of age. The minimum wage is the same for each gender though. In regular 'lower skilled' wage set ups (not considering the higher echelons of business) there is not much of a pay gap, in fact there are several states in the USA where women earn more that men in these roles.

    With regards to upper business, this is a more complex issue. A US government study found that this was a bit of a myth when the real figures were equated after more females to time off to physcially give birth which a man cannot do. Due to this they were networking with colleagues less and career development suffered, it is hard to tackle this issue short of trying to implant whom's in males.



    This is one reason that I would not identify as a feminist, feminism IMO highlights division and can paint women as helpless victims rather than empowered individuals (again I am really talking about western society and western feminism). This IMO is very damaging to women. The treatment my partner suffered from feminist attitudes of what exactly 'she should or should not be doing' were much more severe and harsh than any non feminist attitudes she encountered. Her equlity of choice and opportunity was hampered not aided by feminist attitudes.



    It would, but this is not something I hear many feminists get bent out of shape over (again I refer you to this link of feminists saying why they are feminists) . Many males are treated shoddily at best in family courts.



    Again the problems and discriminatory stereotyping attitudes my partner encountered when looking after the kids for a couple of years (entirely via her choice) before doing her degree emanated from people with feminist attitudes.



    Issues of discrimination on the grounds of gender, race, age, sexuality etc should always be challenged. I do not feel feminism is the vehicle I would champion to do this.
    I don't even need to click the link to see what I know I will see yes there has been a massive influx of women making out that things are sexist when they are not and it has made modern day feminism look like a joke.
    You say as a non-feminist but you agree that women should have equal treatment in society, politics and economics?
    No you don't need feminism to feel outraged by the treatment of those girls but those countries need feminism to change their attitudes that is what I was trying to get at and western feminists should be helping.

    I get just as angry about the unequal treatment of men in society as I do women actually by allowing those things to happen to men and not women that is giving women some sort of special treatment we don't need that we should all serve the same sentences for the same crime regardless of gender, domestic violence against men isn't something that should be taken lightly such as jokes on cards.

    Feminism doesn't define itself as equality for the sexes it defines itself as equality for women although I do think they should focus on reducing special treatment in society which would then be helping men as well. I completely agree with the statement in bold. However I do disagree that there is widespread lack of respect for women from things like men refusing to accept no for an answer until you tell them you have a boyfriend to people questioning my knowledge because "girls aren't good at science" to guys smacking my backside in a club and are astonished that I am offended lots of little things and the list is endless but they build up into a massive problem and I know that there seems to be a growing culture of lack of respect for men as well I know girls that would do the above for different reasons or like I said will touch guys in a club because "guys like that" and if the guy complains he is "gay" when actually he has every right to be upset since he has just been sexually assaulted.

    I think you're right and I'm just identifying myself to the closest thing to what I want to see happen in society that is really terrible that that happened to your wife, in my opinion as long as it's a mutual decision by the couple that is all that should be taken into account for me staying home with kids is about MY choice not because society has pressured me into it and that's what feminism has given women, the choice, and that decision should be respected.

    Yeah I think people should be able to dress however they please as long as it isn't offensive like with racial slurs on the front of a t-shirt or something.

    That would be a perfect approach gender shouldn't be a factor in things except for the obvious like changing rooms and such just the same as race isn't (well shouldn't) be a factor.

    I think there needs to be something new, I really find it difficult to understand why something matters because of gender like how it's not ok for a man to hit a woman. I don't advocate violence but if someone its you regardless of gender you have every right to hit them back. You're right about painting women to be helpless victims I don't know how to explain it really but to say I'm not a feminist would make me feel like I'm saying there isn't a problem in society when I think there is for both men and women.
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    I agree with the vast majority of what you said, a couple of small points I disagree with but I concur with the essence. The thing is I rarely do when debating with 'feminists', you take a logical approach and consider both sides of the coin and both genders.

    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    to say I'm not a feminist would make me feel like I'm saying there isn't a problem in society when I think there is for both men and women.
    It wouldn't, I am outraged and take offence to discrimination in any shape or form and have just completed a course that deals with discrimination. I don't feel I need feminism to take that stance. I read a little on humanists and feel more affiliation in that direction although I am in no hurry to put myself in a 'box' and will research the movement further. From the limited understanding I have of the movement and your opinion, you sound as if you would agree with many of their principles.

    Anyways, whatever box we may or may not belong in, thanks for the debate.

    All the best, Mark
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    (Original post by The_Smurf)
    When I call myself a feminist i'm saying I want equal rights, not that I am a man-hating psychopath, however thanks to the extremists that's what feminism is viewed as currently.
    This is a prime example. This is NOT feminism, nor is it a feminist's view. This is a sexist woman bringing the name into disrepute once again.
    The problem is that "feminism" is now a toxic brand, for the aforementioned reasons.

    If equal rights are what you're after, you might do better under the banner of "humanism".
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    (Original post by markyb76)
    I agree with the vast majority of what you said, a couple of small points I disagree with but I concur with the essence. The thing is I rarely do when debating with 'feminists', you take a logical approach and consider both sides of the coin and both genders.



    It wouldn't, I am outraged and take offence to discrimination in any shape or form and have just completed a course that deals with discrimination. I don't feel I need feminism to take that stance. I read a little on humanists and feel more affiliation in that direction although I am in no hurry to put myself in a 'box' and will research the movement further. From the limited understanding I have of the movement and your opinion, you sound as if you would agree with many of their principles.

    Anyways, whatever box we may or may not belong in, thanks for the debate.

    All the best, Mark
    Well nobody is going to agree 100% but I'll have a read up on humanists see if I identify better with that movement.
    Thanks to you too, was really nice to have a calm discussion on what is a fairly controversial topic on TSR without losing focus of the debate.

    All the best to you too
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    (Original post by pickup)
    She is not trying to demean men by saying men have issues too. She is trying to raise the profile of men's/boys' physical and mental wellbeing so that we treat it as seriously as we should.
    :rofl:

    Not true in the slightest; you've conjured this up from thin air. The only profile she is trying to raise is that of females. The majority of the article is written about girls, first in a naive-mocking of their current stereotype as weak and bad at sports. Then she describes illness (in infants), crime, suicide and drug-use rates of males in a flawed comparison. And then again she dives back into talking about girls, treating it as an immature competition, trying to show how girls are superior with such lines as: "girls tend to knock the socks off boys at school" and "boys, not girls, are the lemmings of the human species", and then finishes with the concluding and very telling line of: "Say 'like a girl' to me and I merely think: 'Doing everything totally effing brilliantly.'" There is not one example of her being worried about men or promoting their health issues - you have made that up with no evidence at all. The agenda of this article is very clear.

    You are the only person in the thread who cannot understand the article. At least the feminists have acknowledged how pathetic it is and distanced themselves from it. You really only have to look at who the author is to understand; my break-down analysis is superfluous.
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    (Original post by paradoxicalme)
    Feminism, by definition, is the pursuit of EQUALITY between the sexes.
    ... via advocating women's rights.

    That's a pretty essential aspect to miss out.
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    (Original post by Messalina)
    The thread seems to claim that feminism is about female supremacism. So as a feminist, I feel that does encompass a statement about my own beliefs, which I do not think is a fair statement.

    As for the article, what is your beef? Care to submit an extensive criticism rather than writing it off in a couple of sentences? Perhaps, if you are averse to reading articles of a feminist nature, you should turn to a newspaper which is less inclined to print such articles?
    Just like an ostrich should put it's head in the sand?
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    :rofl:

    Not true in the slightest; you've conjured this up from thin air. The only profile she is trying to raise is that of females. The majority of the article is written about girls, first in a naive-mocking of their current stereotype as weak and bad at sports. Then she describes illness (in infants), crime, suicide and drug-use rates of males in a flawed comparison. And then again she dives back into talking about girls, treating it as an immature competition, trying to show how girls are superior with such lines as: "girls tend to knock the socks off boys at school" and "boys, not girls, are the lemmings of the human species", and then finishes with the concluding and very telling line of: "Say 'like a girl' to me and I merely think: 'Doing everything totally effing brilliantly.'" There is not one example of her being worried about men or promoting their health issues - you have made that up with no evidence at all. The agenda of this article is very clear.

    You are the only person in the thread who cannot understand the article. At least the feminists have acknowledged how pathetic it is and distanced themselves from it. You really only have to look at who the author is to understand; my break-down analysis is superfluous.
    This is the research she quotes:

    In his precis, he argued: "The human male is, on most measures, more vulnerable than the female. Part of the explanation is the biological fragility of the male fetus … A typical attitude to boys is that they are, or must be made, more resilient than girls. This adds social insult to biological injury."
    ( This is worrying about boys - biological fragility )

    He goes on to elaborate that male babies are more likely to be born prematurely or at risk of developmental disorders such as autism. They boast poor motor and cognitive regulation, leading to misjudgment of risk, encouraging accidents, crime, drug-taking and violence. They kill themselves and die in greater numbers – patterns that continue into adult life. Even merely at an environmental level, boys appear to suffer more from asthma, exposure to lead, insecticides and plasticisers.
    ( This is worrying about boys/men - susceptibility to some diseases / incidence of suicide etc the 'lemmings 'comment . )

    Kraemer's thesis was supported in 2013 by a report published in Pediatrics, which came to strikingly similar conclusions, based on new statistics. Dr Chris Feudtner, a paediatrician at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, who led the study, remarked: "This could be a story of resilience and ability to overcome. Maybe there's some robustness factor that males are missing?"
    ( This is worrying about men)

    How can we tackle the problems boys/ men have if we won't acknowledge them? She is complaining exactly that, that we worry about girls but ignore boys, by saying they are the strong sex. This does them no favours.

    Shouldn't we be worried about boys' poor performance in exams? high crime rate? high suicide rate? and do something about it? Are these statistics an indication that we have ignored boys'/men's issues for too long to their cost and societies'?

    We need to acknowledge them in order to do something about it. Research like this is very important and more money should be put into projects like these.

    If men refuse to believe that there is a problem and treat any highlighting of the problems as personal criticism, instead of criticism of how society is ignoring them and their physical/ mental issues then nothing will ever be done about it and men will continue to show stress symptoms like high suicide rates.
 
 
 
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