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Is there any real reason to be a vegetarian? Watch

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    You are aware that PETA is an American organisation and their information is about America, which has an atrocious standard of animal welfare.

    In the UK we use farrowing crates for the first week or two of birth to protect the piglets from their mother who will accidentally stand or role on them.

    There is no difference in my feeling before or after looking at your links because I actually know about UK agriculture. I eat meat because I am sufficiently informed. What the US do is up to them. But what we do here in the UK is some of the best in the world and we are constantly improving our animal welfare standards. Working closely with animal welfare organisations such as the RSPCA we are improving the standards and giving consumers the ability to choose what sort of meat production systems they want to buy from. This is done through the use of accredited schemes such as "Freedom Food" and "Red Tractor Assurance".
    The use of farrowing cages is a terrible experience for the animals; whether it's for a couple of weeks, or a thousand years.
    Going off of the point slightly, but would you become a vegetarian if your only source of meat was from America?
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    (Original post by RocketCiaranJ)
    The use of farrowing cages is a terrible experience for the animals; whether it's for a couple of weeks, or a thousand years.
    Going off of the point slightly, but would you become a vegetarian if your only source of meat was from America?
    On the use of farrowing cages we shall agree to disagree. There is no way I can sway your opinion and you aren't going to sway mine.

    No. I would source my meat from elsewhere, such as the wild. In the UK we have an abundance of edible creatures such as rabbits and pigeons. Both of which make excellent pies. Rabbits are already overpopulated in some areas and for the benefit of their species culling is necessary to ensure a sustainable population.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    On the use of farrowing cages we shall agree to disagree. There is no way I can sway your opinion and you aren't going to sway mine.

    No. I would source my meat from elsewhere, such as the wild. In the UK we have an abundance of edible creatures such as rabbits and pigeons. Both of which make excellent pies. Rabbits are already overpopulated in some areas and for the benefit of their species culling is necessary to ensure a sustainable population.
    You misunderstand. I'm talking about a remotely abstract world, where the only source of meat on the entire planet is from America. Considering the brutal way in which they are farmed, would you eat the meat?
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    (Original post by RocketCiaranJ)
    You misunderstand. I'm talking about a remotely abstract world, where the only source of meat on the entire planet is from America. Considering the brutal way in which they are farmed, would you eat the meat?
    No I would not eat meat in that case.
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    I don't eat meat because I dont want to


    Dont need a reason
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    ...because it isn't sustainable to eat meat every day of the week. It will only do your body good to eat vegetarian once or twice a week.
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      But what about the billions of animals that are killed via growing Vegetables?

      Why does no one think of those?
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      (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
      But what about the billions of animals that are killed via growing Vegetables?

      Why does no one think of those?
      That is simple, it doesn't help the vegans/vegetarians point of view that no animal is harmed is the growing of crops to feed them. They would rather just forget about that whole nasty business. Or they are too naive and don't understand of thing about modern agriculture.
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      (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
      But what about the billions of animals that are killed via growing Vegetables?

      Why does no one think of those?
      Unavoidable unless you grow your own vegetables.

      Atleast by being vegetarian you reduce the impact on animals.
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        (Original post by Steezy)
        Unavoidable unless you grow your own vegetables.

        Atleast by being vegetarian you reduce the impact on animals.
        No you don't, the Vegetables you eat caused the death of far more animals than the meat industry does.

        Unless as you said, you grow your own vegetables and even then you probably kill a fair few.
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        (Original post by Kater Murr)
        Meat is murder.
        murder - noun - the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another

        So, the only way meat is murder is in the context of cannabilism.
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        (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
        No you don't, the Vegetables you eat caused the death of far more animals than the meat industry does.

        Unless as you said, you grow your own vegetables and even then you probably kill a fair few.
        Yes but if you were eating meat and veg then you're contributing to both. If you eat just veg you're not actually eating an animal, so you're indirectly contributing to an animal's death but not directly.

        It's unavoidable either way. I'm a veggie but not for moral reasons - just that meat started to make me feel sick. Plus you can eat a much healthier diet by not eating meat.
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          (Original post by Steezy)
          Yes but if you were eating meat and veg then you're contributing to both. If you eat just veg you're not actually eating an animal, so you're indirectly contributing to an animal's death but not directly.
          But surely to compensate for the meat you are not eating , you then have to eat more vegetables which means there is no difference at all in real terms?
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          (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
          But surely to compensate for the meat you are not eating , you then have to eat more vegetables which means there is no difference at all in real terms?
          I see your point but that's probably not the case. If you look at the diet of the average obese person, I would be willing to bet that it's high in meat. Then look at the weight of the average veggie and I would be willing to bet it's quite low. Therefore by being veggie you're probably on average eating less than your meat counterpart (obviously not all meat eaters are obese, but talking averages here).

          That coupled with my unwillingness to believe that the vegetable industry kills as much animals as the meat industry, leads me to believe you definitely are contributing less to the death of animals by being a vegetarian.

          I agree that a lot of veggies probably think they're contributing very little or 0% to animal deaths when actually that's far from the truth. But I do think it's a better option than eating meat if you are concerned for animal welfare.

          Not that it would make a difference to me anyway - as I said, my reasons for vegetarianism are mainly preference and health.
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          Fun fact for all of you. Organic vegetable farming causes more animal deaths than conventional methods.

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          (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
          But what about the billions of animals that are killed via growing Vegetables?

          Why does no one think of those?
          Because livestock need eat them aswell... it's much less efficient to use the vegetables to feed them and then eat their carcuses than to simply eat the vegetables directly.
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          My best friend is vegetarian, trying to come fully vegan and her reasons are because its cruel which I think is stupid anyway but my grandads actually a vegetarian because he dislikes the taste of meat
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          (Original post by Zen Baphomet)
          But surely to compensate for the meat you are not eating , you then have to eat more vegetables which means there is no difference at all in real terms?
          Except we feed a lot of vegetables to animals that are then used for meat.
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          (Original post by Steezy)
          I see your point but that's probably not the case. If you look at the diet of the average obese person, I would be willing to bet that it's high in meat. Then look at the weight of the average veggie and I would be willing to bet it's quite low. Therefore by being veggie you're probably on average eating less than your meat counterpart (obviously not all meat eaters are obese, but talking averages here).

          That coupled with my unwillingness to believe that the vegetable industry kills as much animals as the meat industry, leads me to believe you definitely are contributing less to the death of animals by being a vegetarian.

          I agree that a lot of veggies probably think they're contributing very little or 0% to animal deaths when actually that's far from the truth. But I do think it's a better option than eating meat if you are concerned for animal welfare.

          Not that it would make a difference to me anyway - as I said, my reasons for vegetarianism are mainly preference and health.
          Why r u contrasting the obese with the veggies?
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          (Original post by MattyR2895)
          The only real reason I can see to be a vegetarian is if you happen to dislike the taste of meat, and so you don't eat it, which I suppose technically makes you a vegetarian, but it's not on any kind of ethical grounds.
          I'm a meat eater, so obviously I have no ethical problems with killing animals to eat them, but most vegetarians do, and yet they still consume dairy and eggs? Those industries have the same implications for the animals as the meat industry. The cows that produce milk are killed after a couple of years when they are no longer able to produce the milk, usually they are turned in to meat for people to eat. Same in the egg industry, male cocks are of no use and killed.
          I have nothing against people who are ethically against the consumption of animal products, ie vegans. We just share different ethics. I just think it's hypocritical to say killing animals is wrong and then contribute to the dairy and egg industry, as most vegetarians do.
          Also any self proclaimed 'vegetarians' who still eat fish, gtfo.
          someone who is a vegetarian with the exception of fish is a pescatarian.

          also. i'm not a vegetarian by the way.

          but i do think its irresponsible to consume something that you wouldn't feel comfortable doing yourself.

          like i wouldn't mind having chickens who lay eggs. or having a cow that i milk. i wouldnt mind killing a wild animal to eat it and i wouldnt mind growing and harvesting veg.

          can I be bothered to put in the effort? no. hence why i buy it all pre-done

          but if i didnt have it in me to kill an animal and eat it. I don't think i deserve to eat meat.

          so i can understand vegetarians if they realised they didnt have it in them to kill the animal and therefore don't deserve to eat it. but would be able to milk it.

          when you buy the milk your buying something that you could have achieved yourself given the time but that you have no moral problem with.

          but now your talking about an industry that kills the cows after a certain age.

          when a person buys milk yes they are supporting this industry. but they are not actively agreeing to the act.

          just like you might be FOR recycling. but then all you're recycled products go to a land fill in india.

          ethically your behind what it says on the tin. even if other bad stuff goes on behind the scenes.

          for example i'm against the meat industry. i find the idea of raising a cow like a pet and then killing it a bit sick.

          but i still eat beef. why? i know i could kill a wild cow. so i am to some extent reassured.

          that's where my line is.

          other people want to go further. i admire them for it. but it takes too much time. its like another job in its own right.

          theres very little you can do to avoid supporting evil acts and companies.

          whether you're supporting evil oil companies by having a car or catching the bus.

          supporting sweatshops and child labour or slavery by buying certain clothes or products.

          the news paper you buy being owned by company that also owns porn distributors that has had issues with rape and pedophilia.

          banks that made their bread and butter off the backs of african slaves.

          components in your computer or electronics taken from modern day slave mines in africa.

          getting a chinese take away from a restaurant owned by a sex trafficking criminal

          buying anything thats had somethign to do with DOW chemicals.

          supporting murder by buying something connected to BA systems.

          it goes round and round. there's little you can do to fight it. without hermitising your self and living off the land. and even then the land you live off probably has fertiliser connected to something like DOW chemicals on/in it.
         
         
         
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