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MH17 flight down in Ukraine

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Original post by Jammy Duel
You have to question the validity, especially given the BBC's rather blatantly biased position. When watching it all they really asked about is questions along the line of it being the separatists doing it and wouldn't possibly entertain the notion that possibly it was the "government".


BBC's just reporting news as it develops. not really promoting any side yet, especially no on the live updates part.

I've just seen one report stating that one side has no possible way of conducting air-to-air operations, that the authorities are saying there were no aircraft anywhere nearby...and another one saying the flight was escorted by two fighter aircraft.

So so early to speculate on what's really happened, especially as all sides involved are great at misdirection.
Condolences to all who have lost their life.

(What's going on in Ukraine?)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html?frame=2978621
they also shot the other down by accident
Original post by Drewski
BBC's just reporting news as it develops. not really promoting any side yet, especially no on the live updates part.

I've just seen one report stating that one side has no possible way of conducting air-to-air operations, that the authorities are saying there were no aircraft anywhere nearby...and another one saying the flight was escorted by two fighter aircraft.

So so early to speculate on what's really happened, especially as all sides involved are great at misdirection.

If they weren't taking sides they would, at the very least, entertain the notion that it could have been the Ukrainian "government", rather than only consider the scenario that it was the separatists. To say that they aren't supporting sides because they're reporting news as it happens. It is a branch on the tree that is the conflict in Ukraine, and as such if they take sides in the grand scheme of the crisis they are taking sides here. Again, if they are being truly unbiased, why are they refusing to even consider it could have somebody other than the separatists?
Original post by Jammy Duel
Again, if they are being truly unbiased, why are they refusing to even consider it could have somebody other than the separatists?


But they are reporting those accusations?

Malaysia airliner crash: What we know - BBC

"Ukraine has accused Russia's military of supplying advanced missiles to the rebels.
However, separatist leader Alexander Borodai accused the Ukrainian government of downing the airliner itself.
"Apparently, it's a passenger airliner indeed, truly shot down by the Ukrainian air force," he told Russia"


For the record, I'm only following the BBC live update text, not listening to the rolling coverage.
Original post by Jammy Duel
If they weren't taking sides they would, at the very least, entertain the notion that it could have been the Ukrainian "government", rather than only consider the scenario that it was the separatists. To say that they aren't supporting sides because they're reporting news as it happens. It is a branch on the tree that is the conflict in Ukraine, and as such if they take sides in the grand scheme of the crisis they are taking sides here. Again, if they are being truly unbiased, why are they refusing to even consider it could have somebody other than the separatists?


Because that scenario is incredibly unlikely? They have no motive to shoot down aircraft and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it was them.
Realistically this is a case of Russia shooting down an Aircraft because they believed it was a Ukrainian threat, and over the coming days the Aircraft (Pilot) will more than likely be shouldered with the blame of flying in "uncertain territory". Right?

Why would Ukraine shoot this down?
Original post by TheBallWinner
and over the coming days the Aircraft (Pilot) will more than likely be shouldered with the blame of flying in "uncertain territory". Right?


No, more likely is airlines will be criticised for putting costs over safety and refusing to fly different routes, although it has been common practise for a number of years due to the (previous) very low risk of a problem. No blame will be put on the pilots for this, at least not by sane people.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=20c_1405627273


Just released. It isn't confirmed however.
rip
Original post by Drewski
No, more likely is airlines will be criticised for putting costs over safety and refusing to fly different routes, although it has been common practise for a number of years due to the (previous) very low risk of a problem. No blame will be put on the pilots for this, at least not by sane people.


Ahh yeah true.

I was listening to a journalist earlier who claimed his pilot on a plane made the decision himself to fly over Iraq when many were avoiding it so I instantly thought they'd try and pin this on the pilot but yes of course, the company itself will be the ones behind the decision to go over Ukraine.
This is absolutely awful, I cannot imagine how the relatives must feel now. I've seen some pictures that I wish I hadn't, truly terrible.

It's always the innocent who get hurt
Original post by DaveSmith99
Because that scenario is incredibly unlikely? They have no motive to shoot down aircraft and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it was them.

The separatists have no motive either, and to say that there is no evidence either isn't strictly true, for a start we KNOW that the "government" possess necessary hardware, we don't know conclusively that the separatists do, however it seems likely.


Original post by Drewski
But they are reporting those accusations?

Malaysia airliner crash: What we know - BBC

"Ukraine has accused Russia's military of supplying advanced missiles to the rebels.
However, separatist leader Alexander Borodai accused the Ukrainian government of downing the airliner itself.
"Apparently, it's a passenger airliner indeed, truly shot down by the Ukrainian air force," he told Russia"


For the record, I'm only following the BBC live update text, not listening to the rolling coverage.

The rolling coverage doesn't indicate any belief that the "government" did it and focuses purely on a separatist attack. I shall concede the point on the mentioning, however I shall also comment that saying somebody was accused of something is far from suggesting that they could have done it. It is correct newscasting to say that the separatists have accused the "government" of the attack, however it is also good analysis to seriously consider the notion, even if just for the sake of argument.
Original post by TheBallWinner
Ahh yeah true.

I was listening to a journalist earlier who claimed his pilot on a plane made the decision himself to fly over Iraq when many were avoiding it so I instantly thought they'd try and pin this on the pilot but yes of course, the company itself will be the ones behind the decision to go over Ukraine.


These NOTAMs (Notice to Airmen) are quite old, however the high alt airspace over Ukraine was deemed safe to operate in, and practically all airlines (until today) have been using routes which cross Ukraine. Also, ATC services have been operating normally for the most part.

No one expected this to happen, and all but a couple of airlines, such as Air Canada, have been using alternate routing through that area.

http://www.nbaa.org/ops/intl/mid/FDC-NOTAM.pdf
I guess those passengers were just plane unlucky.

Original post by Jammy Duel
The separatists have no motive either, and to say that there is no evidence either isn't strictly true, for a start we KNOW that the "government" possess necessary hardware, we don't know conclusively that the separatists do, however it seems likely.


The Ukrainian Government has complete air superiority, they have no reason whatsoever to be shooting down aircraft as the separatists don't have any. The separatists on the other hand have been actively shooting down aircraft in Eastern Ukraine, their motive is clear, they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane.
(edited 9 years ago)
The violence and attacks that are going on should have meant the plane took another path. I feel shocked and saddened for the dead and their families.
*R.I.P*
And just to add, live right now, a Russian military aircraft is enroute to Simferopol.

http://www.flightradar24.com/SUM9704/3d6ffa8
Oh gosh. Nothing is going well for Malaysia Airlines the past few months. I'm surprised they're still in business after all that has happened.

Gonna go read up on all this before I make an opinion. By the looks of it, I have a lot of reading ahead of me.
But I do think none of this is going to end well.
Original post by ✈ ✈
And just to add, live right now, a Russian military aircraft is enroute to Simferopol.

http://www.flightradar24.com/SUM9704/3d6ffa8


Seems to belong to the Russian Ministry for Emergency Situations.

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