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should university be free but harder to get into? Watch

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think we have the nub of it. Provided they don't call them universities, so far as you are concerned "out of sight, out of mind".

    Well of course, governments which have to fund these things can't operate like that.
    Not really, no reason why the 100% Gov. funding model should remain a scared cow.

    Why not a public / private partnership ?

    Oh..... that might impinge on the UCU's power and actually give students value for money.

    Oh what a concept - the liberal left must be screaming with howls of derision
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    (Original post by carnationlilyrose)
    Well, that's slightly better than I thought, but worse than you did. I assume the Co-Op have the same terms?


    Ten, you have wounded me.
    I am more than happy to pay for both - I believe in learning for its own sake

    It is the idea that people feel they can dictate that another's choice isa joke or pointless - when they do this they generally choose something made up or something that I can see has a use

    I love English Lit

    xx
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    I am more than happy to pay for both - I believe in learning for its own sake

    It is the idea that people feel they can dictate that another's choice isa joke or pointless - when they do this they generally choose something made up or something that I can see has a use

    I love English Lit

    xx
    I know. I'd hate to live in a civilisation made up only of the useful, if indeed it could be called a civilisation.
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    (Original post by student261)
    I hate that going to university has become the norm. It takes away the value for those who have actually worked hard to get there


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    I don't really understand why you hate it though, many jobs nowadays requires a degree.
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    Because it devalues the term university.

    It used to mean a place of HE which was very selective based purely in grades.
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    I don't really understand why you hate it though, many jobs nowadays requires a degree.
    Not correct. 17.5% of UK Jobs "Require" a degree. 55% of school leavers are going to uni.

    I don't hate but do you honestly kkboyk think the above statement is a good thing?!
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    Half the problem is that successive governments responded to legitimate and very well founded concerns about youth employment and training opportunities or the lack thereof by simply expanding university places. Uni is now really a glorified parking lot for many people. With a gap year they are out of the unemployed figures for 4/5/6 years. The second element in the same agenda is a very widespread belief among voters that for a huge number of schools their academic performance is truly shocking and failing the pupils concerned. Instead of addressing the issue at it's core they chose instead to encourage grade inflation and increase uni access. Ergo in the government's mind education is "improving". It also keeps the social mobility / ethnic minority voters happy. The final part of the equation is that the entire operation is funded by some very obscure off the books financing and accounting.
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    I know someone who was give an offer for Politics for EE.
    Also Unconditionals should be for only those who already have their results.#
    Idt they shoulf be 9k, but I was happy at keeping it at 3k
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    You can still have bad universities to take the bottom end of the intellectual ladder... If they want to go to uni then let them
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    (Original post by Pro Crastination)
    Higher education isn't an automatic ticket to an escape from these types of careers. People need to recognise that. If you aren't going to put the effort in - and let's be honest, people on CCC and below aren't putting enough in - you might just end up stacking shelves regardless of whether you have gone to a 'university' or not. This costs the tax payer money, as those earning under £21k don't have to pay a thing back - the odds are they won't pay much of their loan (including interest) back at all - all to the cost of the taxpayer.

    The reasons why one doesn't put the effort in can be wide and varying, for some people, education is dull and boring, they want real life working experience. That's why I'll return to my earlier point. Entry requirements to university education cannot increase until we have suitable, quality apprenticeship programmes for those that don't enjoy studying full time.
    That's rubbish, I put lots of time and effort into all my A Levels and will most likely come out with CCC, I would also argue that I put in more effort than some people getting BBB+. I'm just not as naturally clever, for my maths I went from being targeted and E to getting a C and that was through hard work and putting in hours of extra work a week.
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    The bottom half will no resemblance to the top just like a donkey has little resemblance to a Race horse.

    They are never grouped together, so how can donkey universities and race horse universities be one and the same ?
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    What do you consider a 'joke' degree as?
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    If I ever do get into Uni I will have the best of both worlds I mean I will get crappiest of jobs I wouldn't care what I am doing so long as I don't have to give a crap about it a just turn up experience, money and then go to Uni and manage the two that's how I am gonna get by. I am not gonna use the opportunity to lay in bed, piss about do nothing and drink to get drunk and I am gonna make my body and mind work hard even if I am totally knackered and just wanna sleep over Xmas, Easter and summer. But then I may find that I wanna do extra work over the holidays.

    To me a job as a teaching assistant, support worker, admin, bar, cafe work or CSA will mean I have money in purse, contribute to society, I am not a student and I pay my way.

    Nightworld1066
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    I think, at the very least, every candidate should be required to attend an interview.

    I wasn't interviewed to get into my University. In fact, I don't know anybody who was. It's ridiculous.
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    In my home country they do this:

    You are put in chance categories of being put into your first university. Say if you get AAB to AAA then you will be put in category 1, meaning you're in. Every time someone gets lower than that their chance goes down e.g. ABB = 80% chance of getting in BBB = 70% etc I'm not completely sure of the figures.

    A lot of people get in through this lottery system and there are also other places if you don't get the required grades. The places with lower grades are I suppose similar to old English polytechnics but with a bit of a better reputation :P

    The price of the institutions here is around 1500 Euro a year which is about 1200 pounds a year. The downside is a lot of people do drop out, but there are many apprenticeships out there for those who don't want further education.


    Sadly the UK seems to put a lot of pressure onto their young people seemingly forcing people to go to Uni - I do not know the state of the job market in the UK but it seems like a shame. There are thousands of good professions that do not require a degree and are very fulfilling. I regret going to university personally.
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    (Original post by RSmith1007)
    That's rubbish, I put lots of time and effort into all my A Levels and will most likely come out with CCC, I would also argue that I put in more effort than some people getting BBB+. I'm just not as naturally clever, for my maths I went from being targeted and E to getting a C and that was through hard work and putting in hours of extra work a week.
    For the vast majority of people who are not facing extenuating circumstances, let's be honest, most of them could get at least BBB. I've had this debate before and faced a good deal of opposition on TSR, I don't wish to start it up again - so I understand that most here would disagree with me. I'll summarise my arguments, you are welcome to respond, and we can leave it at that.

    What I mean by hard work is:
    - Taking notes in every lecture, reviewing lecture notes and running through practice questions for an hour or two every evening throughout the entire year.
    - Working on notes/questions in free periods for an average of two hours a day - free periods at college are study periods, not sit around and do nothing periods.
    - Produce the best homework you can throughout the year, and if you do badly, ask for feedback and have another go.
    - Every weekend, spend a good number of hours (say at least five - so three on Saturday and two on Sunday, for instance) going through course content, reviewing notes for the week - this doesn't include time spent doing homework.
    - As exams approach stepping revision up to at least three hours every weekday evening (save one for relaxation) and assign yourself entire study days on the weekend - for instance, all day Saturday and then rest on Sunday.
    - Do all of the above efficiently: this means, not just sitting there and writing flash cards or colouring in your lesson notes. Actually answering previous exam questions, forcing yourself into regularly writing essays if you have an essay subject (I think I was guilty of not doing this enough ) and regularly completing past papers for subjects such as maths.

    If your definition of "hard work" is similar to the above, then you are absolutely right to call me out. However, there appears to be a sizable contingent on this website that consider hard work to be doing the odd bit of homework throughout the year and then cramming in the month or two leading up to the exams.

    Also, if you have a part-time job, consider how much you are dependent upon it. If your parents require your support to put meals on the table, then this is an extenuating circumstance, if you work all the time to pay for shopping sprees, clubbing, festival tickets and holidays, then you are able to, but choose not to, make a sacrifice in order to truly work hard for your grades.

    Finally, though it is hard, try not to be jealous of people who excel without any apparent effort. Lots of people pretend they have done "no revision" so as to not show up others' efforts, others claim that with the opposite intention - to belittle others that work hard. Yes, there are a lucky few that can achieve a lot in school without much input, but that skill isn't guaranteed to translate into success in later life. Lots of people I know who graced their GCSEs were decimated at A level because they never constructed a solid work ethic, as they didn't have to before. I for one do not believe we have a predefined limit to our ability, if that was the case, why would those who go to better schools tend to have a higher added-value at the end of their education? Surely it would just be distributed randomly? Consider what makes these schools "good", a lot of the time, it's pushing fairly average students to work their absolute hardest by instilling a strong work ethic in them. If you can adopt such an ethic, there's no reason why you can't score BBB or above, it then becomes just a question of self belief.
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    (Original post by Mieka)
    In my home country they do this:

    You are put in chance categories of being put into your first university. Say if you get AAB to AAA then you will be put in category 1, meaning you're in. Every time someone gets lower than that their chance goes down e.g. ABB = 80% chance of getting in BBB = 70% etc I'm not completely sure of the figures.

    A lot of people get in through this lottery system and there are also other places if you don't get the required grades. The places with lower grades are I suppose similar to old English polytechnics but with a bit of a better reputation :P

    The price of the institutions here is around 1500 Euro a year which is about 1200 pounds a year. The downside is a lot of people do drop out, but there are many apprenticeships out there for those who don't want further education.


    Sadly the UK seems to put a lot of pressure onto their young people seemingly forcing people to go to Uni - I do not know the state of the job market in the UK but it seems like a shame. There are thousands of good professions that do not require a degree and are very fulfilling. I regret going to university personally.
    Which country is that? I think they do something similar in Holland
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    Comedy studies, media studies, and pop music studies need axing.
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    (Original post by lucyx)
    Which country is that? I think they do something similar in Holland

    You are correct It is the Netherlands. I believe Germany works off of a similar principle.
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    (Original post by russellsteapot)
    I think, although it's true that many people go to university just because "that's what you do these days", it'd always be a struggle to get any tightening of entry requirements past the social mobility folks, given the huge impact of socioeconomic factors upon A level grades.

    It's difficult to draw a line which couldn't be interpreted as a limit on poor people going into further education.

    And even these 'joke courses' you refer to, what makes them joke courses? Lack of historic academic reputation? Most of the 'joke' courses I hear about are far more real world useful than anyone gives them credit for, and far more useful than some of the archaic 'academic' courses.

    University should be paid for, I think, and remain easily-accessible.
    What I would see as being a 'joke' course is 3 years studying coastal management which you can get into with a D at A-level. Things like that should be taught as an apprenticeship, what is your £9000/yr being spent on?

    And I don't agree that university should be paid for. Yes, you are going to be in debt, but it's deducted like tax and doesn't affect your ability to borrow money or take out a mortgage. How is the government, which is already stretched as it is, going to be able to afford to put that many young people through uni?
 
 
 
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