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DiddyDec
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#121
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#121
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Men should fight for women's rights don't you think?
(Original post by kudzi.c)
Do you think feminists can achieve any of their goals without including men?
(Original post by zippity.doodah)
men can't be advocates for women's rights (assuming they need more of them)? would that also imply that white people can't advocate racial equality?

Feminism is a flawed ideology. It has created a mentality that women are the victims of the patriarchy (not a real thing). (In the West) Women have the same rights as men, they can do everything that men can do. And yet we still see feminists complaining about how badly society is treating them. Most of their policies are non-issues.

I fully support equality of the sexes, however equality cannot be gained if you only focus on one gender.
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kudzi.c
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#122
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#122
(Original post by DiddyDec)
Feminism is a flawed ideology. It has created a mentality that women are the victims of the patriarchy (not a real thing). (In the West) Women have the same rights as men, they can do everything that men can do. And yet we still see feminists complaining about how badly society is treating them. Most of their policies are non-issues.

I fully support equality of the sexes, however equality cannot be gained if you only focus on one gender.
Fair enough, thanks for your opinion. May not agree but that's life.
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Jemner01
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#123
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#123
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
I'm not at all. But something has to be done to at least try to prevent this happening. And I feel the only way we will achieve a society where this is reduced is by women and men uniting and altering society so treating women badly is deemed unacceptable by ALL and thus any rape that is committed is punished with far harsher sentences eg actual life.

No more "lad" culture. Eg that dapper laughs w****r


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You can't prevent any action from being deemed unacceptable by all. Murder is deemed unacceptable by most- yet there are still murderers. Theft is deemed unnaceptable by most- yet there are still thieves.
Rape is deemed unnaceptable by most- yet there are still rapists.

You cannot enforce your viewpoint- that society is sexist towards women- on every person. You cannot enforce every person to deem an action unacceptable. You can make an action illegal, and that's why murder, theft and rape are illegal.
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Olderandwiser23
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#124
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#124
(Original post by DiddyDec)
Feminism is a flawed ideology. It has created a mentality that women are the victims of the patriarchy (not a real thing). (In the West) Women have the same rights as men, they can do everything that men can do. And yet we still see feminists complaining about how badly society is treating them. Most of their policies are non-issues.

I fully support equality of the sexes, however equality cannot be gained if you only focus on one gender.
Taking aside pay differences etc as there's plenty of debate about that.

Here's an inequality that I experience pretty much everyday.


My bf walks down the street no issues at all.

I walk down the street and get cat called, stopped and followed.

I walk down the street with my bf and the above doesn't happen. Men respect men more than they respect women.

I just wanna walk down the street but can't because of men.


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zippity.doodah
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#125
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#125
(Original post by DiddyDec)
Feminism is a flawed ideology. It has created a mentality that women are the victims of the patriarchy (not a real thing). (In the West) Women have the same rights as men, they can do everything that men can do. And yet we still see feminists complaining about how badly society is treating them. Most of their policies are non-issues.

I fully support equality of the sexes, however equality cannot be gained if you only focus on one gender.
I completely agree with you - feminism is outdated - but what if we are talking about a world where women *are* legally discriminated against like in the days of their disenfranchisement? you said that men can't get involved in the advocacy of their equality (which doesn't exist in this situation) so that's why I asked why not
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Olderandwiser23
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#126
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#126
Not alll men I may add. It is (I hope) a minority. No idea though as I don't think men admit to cat calling/following and harassment in general lol

But it would be great if this behaviour was deemed unacceptable by all so women could just go by their day.

And we will get there. Just as cyber bullying laws have been introduce so will (better) harassment/cat calling towards women laws will be. Times be changing.


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gmahapatra
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#127
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#127
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
I really wish you could be a woman in a first world country just for a day. I really do.


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I mean no offence, and apologise for any. And in all fairness. I believe there's bigger problems which need addressing in first world countries, such as modern slavery, poverty, and criminality, and our resources would be better spent their. I do accept maybe not everything is equal between men and women in first world societies, but that will change with time, just as racism will decrease over time.


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Jemner01
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#128
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#128
(Original post by kudzi.c)
I understand this is your opinion but this can be highly offensive to some people so could you just avoid saying more comments along these lines.
Offensive? Freedom of speech shouldn't be marred because of what you may or may not like me saying. It's the equivalent of shouting "that's racist" or "that's sexist" whenever a viewpoint that doesn't comply with yours is exposed to you.

(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Just realised you're American.


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I am an American citizen, but I was born and live in the UK. Regardless, dismissing my view because I'm a US Citizen is not the equivalent of an actual counterargument.

(Original post by citydeer)
Personally I don't think the way to win a debate is claim a problem doesn't exist and then prove that it actually does but please keep going.

Mocking people for their weight, who are happy in their own body is just mean and rude. Mocking people for their identity is more than rude, its offensive and horrible. Don't be rude. Listen to the voices of minorities, rather than ridiculing them.
Personally I don't think forcing acceptance of group people who can help themselves is a way to better society. Does being a minority warrant rudeness of abuse? No. Does it warrant pandering or special protection against criticism via "offensive language" or "political correctness"? No.
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Olderandwiser23
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#129
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#129
(Original post by gmahapatra)
I mean no offence, and apologise for any. And in all fairness. I believe there's bigger problems which need addressing in first world countries, such as modern slavery, poverty, and criminality, and our resources would be better spent their. I do accept maybe not everything is equal between men and women in first world societies, but that will change with time, just as racism will decrease over time.


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Oh yeah there are PLENTY of issues unfortunately. Hopefully we will get there with all of them


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username1331498
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#130
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#130
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Taking aside pay differences etc as there's plenty of debate about that.

Here's an inequality that I experience pretty much everyday.


My bf walks down the street no issues at all.

I walk down the street and get cat called, stopped and followed.

I walk down the street with my bf and the above doesn't happen. Men respect men more than they respect women.

I just wanna walk down the street but can't because of men.


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A woman working for the same company, in the same job as a man, earns the same as the man. This is due to the Equal Pay Act. There is not a difference in pay, women chose different jobs as to what men chose.

This is not an inequality.
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username1331498
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#131
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#131
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Not alll men I may add. It is (I hope) a minority. No idea though as I don't think men admit to cat calling/following and harassment in general lol

But it would be great if this behaviour was deemed unacceptable by all so women could just go by their day.

And we will get there. Just as cyber bullying laws have been introduce so will (better) harassment/cat calling towards women laws will be. Times be changing.


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So you want to persecute any man who talks to a woman on the street?
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Olderandwiser23
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#132
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#132
(Original post by Jemner01)
Offensive? Freedom of speech shouldn't be marred because of what you may or may not like me saying. It's the equivalent of shouting "that's racist" or "that's sexist" whenever a viewpoint that doesn't comply with yours is exposed to you.



I am an American citizen, but I was born and live in the UK. Regardless, dismissing my view because I'm a US Citizen is not the equivalent of an actual counterargument.



Personally I don't think forcing acceptance of group people who can help themselves is a way to better society. Does being a minority warrant rudeness of abuse? No. Does it warrant pandering or special protection against criticism via "offensive language" or "political correctness"? No.
People who are born the wrong gender CANNOT cure it or "help themselves" as you put it. Just like you can't pray the gay outta someone. You can try, but it won't work.


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Olderandwiser23
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#133
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#133
(Original post by EatAndRevise)
A woman working for the same company, in the same job as a man, earns the same as the man. This is due to the Equal Pay Act. There is not a difference in pay, women chose different jobs as to what men chose.

This is not an inequality.
Lol I said putting that debate aside. The inequality I was demonstrating was my inability to walk down the street with out unwanted male sexual advances.

That's an example of inequality.


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Olderandwiser23
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#134
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#134
(Original post by EatAndRevise)
So you want to persecute any man who talks to a woman on the street?
Talking is very different from following, harassing, shouting derogatory terms.


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James Milibanter
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#135
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#135
(Original post by DiddyDec)
Feminism is a flawed ideology. It has created a mentality that women are the victims of the patriarchy (not a real thing). (In the West) Women have the same rights as men, they can do everything that men can do. And yet we still see feminists complaining about how badly society is treating them. Most of their policies are non-issues.

I fully support equality of the sexes, however equality cannot be gained if you only focus on one gender.
as a man, i am fully affected by the patriarchy, it is socially unacceptable for me to cry, show emotions and god forbid i was gay.
Women on average in the UK earn 85% of what a man does based on the same work, ability and quality of resume, this figure drops to 82% in the USA, to say that the patriarchy is not a thing is like saying that Rape culture is not a thing, you are just an ignorant fascist.
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Jemner01
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#136
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#136
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
People who are born the wrong gender CANNOT cure it or "help themselves" as you put it. Just like you can't pray the gay outta someone. You can try, but it won't work.


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Believing there are voices/different people in your head is called multiple personality disorder (or can be diagnosed as schizophrenia). It's a mental illness and dealt by medical processionals.

Beleiving you are a woman trapped in a man's body (a voice of a woman in a man's physical body) is supposed to be accepted as normal behaviour and a healthy mental state, and anyone who disagrees with this position is shunned.

I don't see the difference between the two. I'm not religious and I don't believe being gay is a mental illness, although it's not the behaviour of the majority of human beings.
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Olderandwiser23
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#137
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#137
(Original post by James Milibanter)
as a man, i am fully affected by the patriarchy, it is socially unacceptable for me to cry, show emotions and god forbid i was gay.
Women on average in the UK earn 85% of what a man does based on the same work, ability and quality of resume, this figure drops to 82% in the USA, to say that the patriarchy is not a thing is like saying that Rape culture is not a thing, you are just an ignorant fascist.
I think I love you.


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Jemner01
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#138
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#138
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Talking is very different from following, harassing, shouting derogatory terms.


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And yet verbal assault is still a crime. You want laws that hinder men, you want laws specific to males. You are sexist.
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DK_Tipp
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#139
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#139
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
I'm not at all. But something has to be done to at least try to prevent this happening. And I feel the only way we will achieve a society where this is reduced is by women and men uniting and altering society so treating women badly is deemed unacceptable by ALL and thus any rape that is committed is punished with far harsher sentences eg actual life.

No more "lad" culture. Eg that dapper laughs w****r


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Ban lad culture. Wonderful! Censorship has always worked so well in the past. Prohibition, banning Elvis' gyratin', the War on Drugs, pornography, hiphop, Russel Brand...
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username1331498
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#140
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#140
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Lol I said putting that debate aside. The inequality I was demonstrating was my inability to walk down the street with out unwanted male sexual advances.

That's an example of inequality.


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There is not a debate to be put aside. Twisting facts into an argument does not quantify a debate.

I am guessing you are referring to catcalling, just ignore them or put headphones/earphones in. How do you plan on stopping rowdy builders from catcalling?

So your inequality is that you don't like getting catcalled when walking the streets?
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