Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Is anyone else utterly disguscted by the people who run the UK? Watch

    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    I had a massive rant about politicians , written in a speech , hoping teacher isn't going to give papers in as coursework as it was (Exaggerated , full of negativity and criticizing foul terms)= very offensive , I'm quite an opinionated in this subject as I believe wrong decisions are being made for us , Would feel so much better without politics and obviously politicians.

    ->
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Berlin was easy and west. The compliantsadenin the UK now are echoed in Germany. East has developed but care to show ME anywhere in the UK that's poorer now than it was in the 80s.
    Federalism works in different countries for different reasons. The U.S. and germany have a competlly different historical reason for following a federal model. Germany for example didn't exist until the last part of the 19th century. So that's one reason they have a federal model.

    I don't mind different parts of the UK competing against each other. It'll allow us to really get to grips with those in society expecting a free ride
    Yeah but the result will be different to what you imagine. Ie it won;t be that everyone is lazy away from the south-east, and it generates all the wealth, I think federalism would disprove that in a generation or two.
    What's different, we are an island? Why can't it work here. Only reason is conservatism and sentimalizing monarchy and all.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Yeah but the result will be different to what you imagine. Ie it won;t be that everyone is lazy away from the south-east, and it generates all the wealth, I think federalism would disprove that in a generation or two.
    What's different, we are an island? Why can't it work here. Only reason is conservatism and sentimalizing monarchy and all.
    I don't want to spend huge amounts of money implementing a new form of governance. Look at the start up costs for Holyrood. Look at what that's achieved other than a culture of finger pointing, blaming others and wanting to borrow money for other people to pay off.

    I tend to find that people are unhappy with their lot on life and try to blame it on other things.

    How do you feel a federal state would've made you're life any better.

    Why can't the NE, wales etc compete now?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)

    Why can't the NE, wales etc compete now?
    Because there's no incentive, they don't have enough self determination.
    California can witness the East Coast being successful, but has enough sovereignty to go sod them lets be ambitious anyway and do our own thing, that doesn't apply in the UK.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Because there's no incentive, they don't have enough self determination.
    California can witness the East Coast being successful, but has enough sovereignty to go sod them lets be ambitious anyway and do our own thing, that doesn't apply in the UK.
    The welfare state seems to have destroyed the incentive to work.

    Remove the safety net and people would have to work and be productive.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The welfare state seems to have destroyed the incentive to work.

    Remove the safety net and people would have to work and be productive.
    They can't when there isn't any jobs, and also when you can't even rent a bedsit room and eat on the wage, without falling behind on bills, unscrupulous landlords etc, never mind get to buy a roof over their heads. The country is bursting at the seams to and going to be overpopulated.

    But, that wasn't really want I wanted to talk about, we were talking about the changing of the make up of the UK. It is ripe fro federalism, just like the US. It's not like trying to unify a disparate EU, British regions have enough common history and interests to do it.

    Also neglected in this debate, aside from the objective arguments for federalism and/or a republic, is just that stagnancy in of itself, and lack of change, regardless of other considerations, can be a negative thing. I am suspicious of a people who never see the virtue of meaningful change, and by that I don't just mean swathes of cheap migrant labour who business gets rich from whilst we all pat ourselves on the back(mainly rich priviliged liberals who haven't suffered too much from immigration) for how much we love evolution, diversity and change. No real fundamental political change, people can argue about republics like the US and France being mired more than Britain, but I don't buy that, because it was radical ideas and wanting something different that founded the US, and the French did rid themselves of monarchy and change their constitution. Yes Britain is a unique place, but when people just reflexively reject notins of change, I can't help feeling they live on our past and want an easy life rather than questioning things more deeply and how too much of 'stability' (read stangancy) and a cabal's stranglehold on this country is unhealthy.
    It's inherently undemocratic, the lack of mobility amongst the truly powerful, as slightly distinct from wealthy, which is so pronounced here, not to mention people being conditioned to play the same roles, defer in the same way, accept the same notions. Look the the ride a Tory etonian gets over a Labour Scotsman or state educated person, from the media.
    Look at how even with Major being a Tory and Blair being Labour, the latter was able to trounce the former because of class, a working class labour guy never could have. It's indicative of how things work on a grand scale. There are no 'winners' in politics from Clinton or Obama's social background in England.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    They can't when there isn't any jobs, and also when you can't even rent a bedsit room and eat on the wage, without falling behind on bills, unscrupulous landlords etc, never mind get to buy a roof over their heads. The country is bursting at the seams to and going to be overpopulated.

    But, that wasn't really want I wanted to talk about, we were talking about the changing of the make up of the UK. It is ripe fro federalism, just like the US. It's not like trying to unify a disparate EU, British regions have enough common history and interests to do it.

    Also neglected in this debate, aside from the objective arguments for federalism and/or a republic, is just that stagnancy in of itself, and lack of change, regardless of other considerations, can be a negative thing. I am suspicious of a people who never see the virtue of meaningful change, and by that I don't just mean swathes of cheap migrant labour who business gets rich from whilst we all pat ourselves on the back(mainly rich priviliged liberals who haven't suffered too much from immigration) for how much we love evolution, diversity and change. No real fundamental political change, people can argue about republics like the US and France being mired more than Britain, but I don't buy that, because it was radical ideas and wanting something different that founded the US, and the French did rid themselves of monarchy and change their constitution. Yes Britain is a unique place, but when people just reflexively reject notins of change, I can't help feeling they live on our past and want an easy life rather than questioning things more deeply and how too much of 'stability' (read stangancy) and a cabal's stranglehold on this country is unhealthy.
    It's inherently undemocratic, the lack of mobility amongst the truly powerful, as slightly distinct from wealthy, which is so pronounced here, not to mention people being conditioned to play the same roles, defer in the same way, accept the same notions. Look the the ride a Tory etonian gets over a Labour Scotsman or state educated person, from the media.
    Look at how even with Major being a Tory and Blair being Labour, the latter was able to trounce the former because of class, a working class labour guy never could have. It's indicative of how things work on a grand scale. There are no 'winners' in politics from Clinton or Obama's social background in England.
    The UK isn't bursting at the seams. Far from it. Only diverts in parts of the UK are overpopulated.

    I don't see how you can say that the UK is rope fro federalism? That would indicate a desire to try and undercut each other.

    You've still failed to mention how in a federal UK with only the SE running a surplus, other parts of the UK would fund themselves? Surely the SE would remove its surplus to only fund itself creating a finding shortage elsewhere?

    change for changes sake can be very harmful. Especially when that change has no discernable benefits.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)

    I don't see how you can say that the UK is rope fro federalism? That would indicate a desire to try and undercut each other.

    You've still failed to mention how in a federal UK with only the SE running a surplus, other parts of the UK would fund themselves? Surely the SE would remove its surplus to only fund itself creating a finding shortage elsewhere?

    change for changes sake can be very harmful. Especially when that change has no discernable benefits.
    The last bit is just a typically deeply conservative English sentiment. Yes you can argue it has had great validity but I would argue in a world where your former colony has taken the reigns from you, dictates your foreign policy and controls the destiny of your economy to a large extent, and you are still living off the trappings of an imperial age to bolster your sense of yourself(Monarchy, refusing constitutional change, denying EU and American control over you, hanging off American coattails abroad and at home) and you are using these superficial and historically based symbols of superiority to shelter you from the facts of the modern globalised world, and use it to refute the positives in change all the time, without even giving any anti-conservative argument a chance, then it becomes extremley negative and stifling to any kid of national debate or anyone having a stake in the country-it all goes back to class feudalism and people knowing their place- maybe fine when you're running the globe and your greatness is real, not imagined, you have evidence for some superior way of life, but less valid now to say the least.

    As for federalism, we are not even starting from the same premise. Lies damn lies and statistics is a phrase that springs to mind(Though I'm not even sure there are the statistics, and I think there are counters). Again it's linked to a conservative mentality, but wouldn't you say if you'd been told that one part of the UK is more productive, generation after generation in one region, and all the rest are just idle, implicitly assumed to be morally lower and subsidised, that this might be a bit of a con, that maybe people are being ripped off? It's against all logic that other parts of our great island are inherently lesser and idler and being subsidised.
    They are either a)being ripped off by shrewd practice, wealth in various ways draining to the people who've manipulated the nation this way, and then it's being made out that they produce nothing and are paid for(how can that be when they fueled the entire industrial revolution and the greatest most productive era of any country anywhere, the workshop of the world-you going to say those places are mere subsidy junkies, not to mention the great nation of Scotland? That's just insulting and indicates that these attitudes and so-called truths have been perpetuated by the venal and rabidly self-interested super rich of London-nothing like the philanthropists who set up communities in the industrial revolution for example)
    And/or b)The country has created the conditions for demotivation and lack of productivity, mainly that the wealth was being creamed off and those communities were decimated after manafacturing went.

    I think that your attitude is negative, it's almost to dismiss these places as innateley inferior and basket cases, federalism and healthy competiton could make them thrive, like I say, we have enough in common and it works great on either coast of the US. Why not for Uk regions also.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 9, 2015
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.