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Farage against plain cigarette packaging... watch

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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    1) it's not "pushing". pushing implies force. advertisements are not force. they are language/persuasion.
    2) advertisements do not force anybody to consume anything against their will. if people are persuaded and they exercise freedom to become "damaged", then it's their own fault.
    I'd say is more than just persuasion, it's manipulation and deceit, the brute force of ideas into someone´s head.
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    (Original post by n00)
    I'd say is more than just persuasion, it's manipulation and deceit, the brute force of ideas into someone´s head.
    1) if it is based on actual falsehoods, then they will be sent to court based on contractual misrepresentation.
    2) "brute force of ideas" = nonsense. grow up. honesty. this is so immature. if advertisements, to you, are the equivalent to using violence, then you are rather pathetic/hopeless. I'm trying, deliberately, not to insult you here, but this is like as if a person breaks a bone by hearing something they don't like.
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    1) if it is based on actual falsehoods, then they will be sent to court based on contractual misrepresentation.
    :rofl:

    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    2) "brute force of ideas" = nonsense. grow up. honesty. this is so immature. if advertisements, to you, are the equivalent to using violence, then you are rather pathetic/hopeless. I'm trying, deliberately, not to insult you here, but this is like as if a person breaks a bone by hearing something they don't like.
    Yeah i didn't expect that one would sit comfortably with your libertarian faith, ah well i'm sure you'll grow out of it one day.
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    Plain packaging is stupid. If smokers want to smoke let them smoke. Just make sure they don't do it where others are harmed as much as is possible. Which we do. Educate people, as we do. But stop trying to tell people they're not allowed to smoke.

    Ironically Plain Packaging opens the doors for knock off cigarettes that aren't regulated to flood the market. Hardly a good thing.

    As for Nigel Farage, this is probably one of the only issues I agree with him on. How UKIP is so popular is beyond me, its ideology seems more based on bigotry than free market.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Plain packaging is stupid. If smokers want to smoke let them smoke. Just make sure they don't do it where others are harmed as much as is possible. Which we do. Educate people, as we do. But stop trying to tell people they're not allowed to smoke.
    But plain packaging isn't telling people they're not allowed to smoke.

    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Ironically Plain Packaging opens the doors for knock off cigarettes that aren't regulated to flood the market. Hardly a good thing.
    Hows that? Cigarette packaging isn't exactly difficult to copy.
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    (Original post by n00)
    Yeah Farage says he's against the war on drugs and claims to be all about liberty but he's still the leader of a party with the most authoritarian drug policies in the country.
    Uh, good luck quantifying that.

    (Original post by n00)
    He's here fighting for the right of pushers of one drug to be able to use fancy packaging while supporting policy that would not only imprison others simply for possession of far less harmful drugs, but hugely increase those sentences. He's not a libertarian and this isn't about liberty
    Where are you getting this information, exactly? Besides, even if that is UKIP policy, there's no reason why his personal beliefs can't be at odds with that.

    What do you mean this isn't about liberty? I'm pretty sure this entire thread is based upon a discussion of liberty.

    (Original post by n00)
    Oh come off it, one is far, far, far more of an intrusive restriction of liberties than the other, for some reason Farage cares far more for the relatively petty issue of fag packets.
    Yes, one is more intrusive than the other, but that distinction isn't relevant to any discussion I have been or want to be part of, and I'm not sure why you bring it up.

    (Original post by n00)
    Just trying to get things in perspective. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the tobacco industry making money. I'm a smoker, i've benefited from tobacco sales and would very much like to be able to make money selling other drugs myself, but i'd also be more than happy to rely on the quality of my drugs to do the selling.
    So you don't have a problem with the tobacco industry making money, but you would like it if their practices were restricted by the state? That's a big old paradox, friend.

    Please, don't pretend you support the cause of freedom. People like you support the use of state-backed violence to guarantee them some 'positive liberties', because they generally lack the imagination and industry to figure out other ways of putting pressure on private companies in the context of a market. Forcing companies into uniform packaging would not increase freedom, it would only diminish it.
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    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Uh, good luck quantifying that.
    It's really quite easy, which other party want to get tougher on the enforcement of prohibition?

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Where are you getting this information, exactly?
    Straight from the horse's mouth, Farage and UKIP head office.

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Besides, even if that is UKIP policy, there's no reason why his personal beliefs can't be at odds with that. ]What do you mean this isn't about liberty? I'm pretty sure this entire thread is based upon a discussion of liberty.
    I'm questioning Farage's motives.

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Yes, one is more intrusive than the other, but that distinction isn't relevant to any discussion
    Course it is.

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    I have been or want to be part of,
    Clearly

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    and I'm not sure why you bring it up.
    It shows his inconsistency.

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    So you don't have a problem with the tobacco industry making money, but you would like it if their practices were restricted by the state?
    Yeah, i think you've got it.

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    That's a big old paradox, friend.
    No it isn't.

    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Please, don't pretend you support the cause of freedom. People like you support the use of state-backed violence to guarantee them some 'positive liberties', because they generally lack the imagination and industry to figure out other ways of putting pressure on private companies in the context of a market. Forcing companies into uniform packaging would not increase freedom, it would only diminish it.
    Rubbish, i just don't buy into your faith.
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    (Original post by n00)
    But plain packaging isn't telling people they're not allowed to smoke.



    Hows that? Cigarette packaging isn't exactly difficult to copy.
    It's being pushed more and more that people ought not to smoke. And poor people ought not to drink. And all drugs are bad.

    It's a lot harder to copy than plain packaging.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    It's a lot harder to copy than plain packaging.
    It really isn't.
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    (Original post by n00)
    It really isn't.
    Okay, brb, telling Australia and KPMG:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...packaging.html
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Okay, brb, telling Australia and KPMG:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...packaging.html
    a study funded by Philip Morris
    Tobacco firms argue
    In the year to June 2013, accounting firm KPMG estimates that illicit tobacco, whether smuggled, counterfeit or illegal, jumped from 11.8 percent of the Australian tobacco market to 13.3 percent.
    Which of course could be down to any number of reasons.

    I've unfortunately smoked counterfeit cigarettes, the easiest way to tell you've got counterfeit cigarettes isn't the packaging which is normally extremely convincing, but the cigarettes. They're often loosely packed, use cheap paper, smell odd, the tobacco is full of stalk and odd bits and pieces and burn strangely, if anything the packaging gives a false sense of security.
 
 
 

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