Any guys identify as feminists on here? Watch

kiki37
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#121
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Nah it's that current henna tattoo craze among young white girls.
Henna looks pretty and I like it. Indians don't care if we use henna so why the hell do you care?
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QuantumOverlord
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No, I am most definitely not a feminist. In-fact I am very much anti.

"But you don't believe in Equality?" Actually I do, but that is not feminism. Consider that a reasonable person believes in liberty but may not wish to identify as 'libertarian', or how a person may support animal rights, but does not want to be called an 'animal right's activist'. The same is true here. Feminism is an ideology, as are most 'isms' and often entail far more than a simple disagreement/agreement of a statement, although obviously there are exceptions. In the case of feminism there is a pattern of behaviour that seems almost universal, and I think the times are gone when it can simply be described as radical. If you disagree with this, then please remember you are a hypocrite in the likely event you call 'men's right activism' a hate movement e.c.t. Anyway the political tennants of feminism tend to go something like this:

-Very left wing views, often anti-capitalist or at least socialist viewpoint.

-Encourages Hyper-sensitivity to the point that most simple jokes are some form of 'ist'

-Anti-Science paradigm, i.e that men and women are identical apart from their genitalia, and that any differences are as a result of social conditioning.

-Often vague about the distinction between equal opportunity and outcome. Sometimes touting the later to the detriment of the former

-Casual sexism/racism (ironic isn't it) , sometimes to the point where there is outright denial it is possible to be sexist against a man, racist against a white person e.c.t.

-Slactivist, Social justice type, anti-freedom type politics. Blowing all issues out of proportion, for example a women that chooses to be a model HATES herself, and anyone that buys it HATES all women. The word 'misogynist' used to mean HATE but has now been trivialised to a ridiculous degree. Sometimes this comes at the expense of actual real problems (for example the feminist T-shirts bought from a third world sweat shop).

-Bigotry against anyone that is not a feminist! Sometimes to the point that anyone with a slightly different political opinion will be shunned.


Anyway, not wanting to be associated with this sort of ideology which seems to be the norm now rather than the radical fringe, it makes sense to not want to call yourself one.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by kiki37)
Henna looks pretty and I like it. Indians don't care if we use henna so why the hell do you care?
Ever heard of Cultural appropriation? It's akin to people getting tattoos of Polynesian tribal iconography, Chinese characters, or Celtic art worn by people who have no interest in, or understanding of, their original cultural significance. Basically just because they look cool.

Basically I particularity dislike fashion fads that use cultural appropriation.
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viddy9
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I support equality between men and women.

Feminism is still needed desperately in many countries around the world and, to some extent, even here, although I think we've reached the point in Britain when we can have general movements against things like domestic abuse and unequal salaries, instead of movements based on women's rights with these things.

There still does seem to be a slight gender pay gap (not as large as many feminists claim, though) and while I accept that women are more likely to be abused than men, I think there's a lot of overlap between men and women when it comes to these issues that it makes no sense to have movements concerning these issues purely from a women's rights perspective.

I'm amazed at how much vitriol there is towards feminism on the internet and elsewhere, though. People appear to be judging the idea based on some of its more radical adherents, which is just silly. There's an awful lot of hatred towards feminists in general and I often encounter people being casually sexist in order to annoy feminists, which, again, is just infantile.
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barnetlad
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#125
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I believe in equality, whether that makes me a feminist would be open to debate. Where I disagree with some feminists is that I am wanting the position of women to be equal, as better for all, not hating men.
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kiki37
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Ever heard of Cultural appropriation? It's akin to people getting tattoos of Polynesian tribal iconography, Chinese characters, or Celtic art worn by people who have no interest in, or understanding of, their original cultural significance. Basically just because they look cool.

Basically I particularity dislike fashion fads that use cultural appropriation.
Henna is literally just used in India to look pretty. Seriously, Indians don't care. My teacher did it for me and she is Indian. My boyfriend is from India and he thinks henna looks so nice on me and he likes when I have it. So if they don't care, you really shouldn't.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by kiki37)
Henna is literally just used in India to look pretty. Seriously, Indians don't care. My teacher did it for me and she is Indian. My boyfriend is from India and he thinks henna looks so nice on me and he likes when I have it. So if they don't care, you really shouldn't.
Did you seriously just use the whole "I'm friends with x group so it's fine".... And there are most defiantly some people in the indian, asian, arabian, north african communities who do have problems with Europeans appropriating parts of their culture, especially henna, something that is traditionally used specifically for wedding decoration. Your statement that it's purely decoration highlights why it's bad that your using such things without understanding or having an interest in the culture you're appropriating.

Traditional culture really should not become a "fashion" accessory, it's about as bad as the whole christian cross fad back when I was in college and the tribal & celtic tattoo fad in the early 00's. Thank god henna's not permanent.
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kiki37
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#128
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Did you seriously just use the whole "I'm friends with x group so it's fine".... And there are most defiantly some people in the indian, asian, arabian, north african communities who do have problems with Europeans appropriating parts of their culture, especially henna, something that is traditionally used specifically for wedding decoration. Your statement that it's purely decoration highlights why it's bad that your using such things without understanding or having an interest in the culture you're appropriating.

Traditional culture really should not become a "fashion" accessory, it's about as bad as the whole christian cross fad back when I was in college and the tribal & celtic tattoo fad in the early 00's. Thank god henna's not permanent.
Seriously I have no clue why you care. My point is just that Indian people actually do not care. Maybe there is cultural significance to henna but these days it is just used for weddings, celebrations etc. And just to look good! If it was such a big deal for white people to use henna, why would my Indian teacher hold a "henna party" in a class that is full of white people? I have never heard of an Indian person be offended by white people using henna.

Okay I have just researched henna and it is, as I thought, just used to decorate and look good. I am interested in Indian/Hindu culture, and I wouldn't do anything to disrespect them. I always ask my boyfriend about India to the point that he's like "just bloody move to India! You care more about India than me!" I think having lived in India for 21 years, he would be able to tell me if it offends anyone.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by kiki37)
Seriously I have no clue why you care. My point is just that Indian people actually do not care. Maybe there is cultural significance to henna but these days it is just used for weddings, celebrations etc. And just to look good! If it was such a big deal for white people to use henna, why would my Indian teacher hold a "henna party" in a class that is full of white people? I have never heard of an Indian person be offended by white people using henna.

Okay I have just researched henna and it is, as I thought, just used to decorate and look good. I am interested in Indian/Hindu culture, and I wouldn't do anything to disrespect them. I always ask my boyfriend about India to the point that he's like "just bloody move to India! You care more about India than me!" I think having lived in India for 21 years, he would be able to tell me if it offends anyone.
Okay basically you don't understand cultural appropriation....
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kiki37
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#130
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Okay basically you don't understand cultural appropriation....
I do, but this is something that is just not a big deal at all. Like I have said so many times Indians do not care if white people use henna. First of all it comes from a plant, how the hell can you appropriate a plant? I get that it's the designs that come from Indian culture but like I said, they don't care. I was asking my boyfriend last night, he said that no one gets offended at all. In Delhi there's mehndi stands where tourists can get it done. It's beautiful and Indians like that we also think it's beautiful. I don't see what's so wrong in enjoying another culture, or enjoying a particular aspect of that culture if they are not offended at all. You're just being overly sensitive about a non-issue. I get that some people make fun of Indian culture then take what they like from it, but that is not me. I very rarely use henna, but I will continue to do so because I like it and I appreciate the culture that it comes from. You can be a social justice warrior elsewhere now.
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poohat
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(Original post by viddy9)
There still does seem to be a slight gender pay gap.
no there isnt

http://www.cityam.com/1416448301/pay...n-out-earn-men
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/busine...cle4272918.ece
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ater-life.html

(Original post by viddy9)
while I accept that women are more likely to be abused than men
no they arent

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...estic-violence


you seem like a sensible person but you need to stop blindly accepting lies and misleading statistics propagated by feminists without checking them first. The truth is that almost all of modern society is set up to benefit women, and there is almost literally no area in which they are disadvantaged
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HigherMinion
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#132
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Okay basically you don't understand cultural appropriation....
Jesus Christ... I didn't realise Cultural Appropriation had reached Blighty... This is absolute nonsense. What you're suggesting is that one culture cannot borrow customs from another, regardless of having members of that culture living within your greater one. What you're saying is you wish for the ultimate stagnation in art, food and entertainment. Under your philosophy, the banjo would never have been invented, nor RocknRoll.

It's hilarious how your hatred of "cultural appropriation" makes you more isolationist than the "extreme" right wing parties you probably so despise.


Gotta love that cognitive dissonance.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by kiki37)
I do, but this is something that is just not a big deal at all. Like I have said so many times Indians do not care if white people use henna. First of all it comes from a plant, how the hell can you appropriate a plant? I get that it's the designs that come from Indian culture but like I said, they don't care. I was asking my boyfriend last night, he said that no one gets offended at all. In Delhi there's mehndi stands where tourists can get it done. It's beautiful and Indians like that we also think it's beautiful. I don't see what's so wrong in enjoying another culture, or enjoying a particular aspect of that culture if they are not offended at all. You're just being overly sensitive about a non-issue. I get that some people make fun of Indian culture then take what they like from it, but that is not me. I very rarely use henna, but I will continue to do so because I like it and I appreciate the culture that it comes from. You can be a social justice warrior elsewhere now.
I don't personally get offended, I just think when white people get it done they look like wannabe cultured jackasses. You might as well go round wearing a sari or get a lip plate while you're at it.

There's also a slight difference in a tourist doing it, and just putting it on day to day because you think it looks cool.... which FYI it doesn't outside of hipster crowds.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by HigherMinion)
Jesus Christ... I didn't realise Cultural Appropriation had reached Blighty... This is absolute nonsense. What you're suggesting is that one culture cannot borrow customs from another, regardless of having members of that culture living within your greater one. What you're saying is you wish for the ultimate stagnation in art, food and entertainment. Under your philosophy, the banjo would never have been invented, nor RocknRoll.

It's hilarious how your hatred of "cultural appropriation" makes you more isolationist than the "extreme" right wing parties you probably so despise.


Gotta love that cognitive dissonance.
Meh I just think, simply appropriating something from another culture because "it looks cool" is pretty much retarded. Cultural appropriation isn't the spreading of practices or culture, it's the practice of taking such things with no real understanding behind it or interest behind it, usually in modern culture simply because it's seen as "pretty" or cool".

I have no issue against the spreading of idea's and culture (which isn't cultural appropriation), native american mascots in america for example is another example of a much more offensive example, while the use of teepee's isn't an example of cultural appropriation.

Remember how ridiculous real chavs are when they try and copy black culture? It's damn right embarrassing to see. Never mind something actually reserved in multiple african and asian cultures for wedding rights outside of tourist money making practices it's stooped too.
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kiki37
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Meh I just think, simply appropriating something from another culture because "it looks cool" is pretty much retarded. Cultural appropriation isn't the spreading of practices or culture, it's the practice of taking such things with no real understanding behind it or interest behind it, usually in modern culture simply because it's seen as "pretty" or cool".

I have no issue against the spreading of idea's and culture (which isn't cultural appropriation), native american mascots in america for example is another example of a much more offensive example, while the use of teepee's isn't an example of cultural appropriation.

Remember how ridiculous real chavs are when they try and copy black culture? It's damn right embarrassing to see. Never mind something actually reserved in multiple african and asian cultures for wedding rights outside of tourist money making practices it's stooped too.
The thing is you know nothing about me or what I know about Indian culture. My first experience with mehndi was in year 9 in art when we learnt about it. A Sri Lankan girl in my class brought some in and did mehndi on a few girls. She was happy for people to learning about her culture. I understand the reasons behind mehndi. Women think if it's darker their marriage will be more successful. But some women aren't this superstitious and it is basically a decoration for the skin. No Indian/South Asian person has ever shown any offense towards me using mehndi. I rarely use it to be honest. It is a bit dumb for white girls to use it when they don't know it's background, but it isn't really that big of a deal to use it because it looks cool, because that's a purpose of it.
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HigherMinion
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(Original post by DanB1991)

Remember how ridiculous real chavs are when they try and copy black culture? It's damn right embarrassing to see. Never mind something actually reserved in multiple african and asian cultures for wedding rights outside of tourist money making practices it's stooped too.
Cultures_aren't_reserved. Behaviour_is_not_reserved.

It's ironic, since feminists are the biggest hipsters out there. You don't seem to understand how and why people operate. You're not asking the right questions such as "why are they replicating these foreign and degenerate cultures?" which I'm sure is how you'd phrase it. Instead you say, "Oh what! They can't do that! Only blacks and Asians do those things!"
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skunkboy
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(Original post by kiki37)
Okay, some people aren't comfortable to call themselves feminists because of the radicals. That's fine. Simply put, do you believe women are equal to you?
Lol. Define the word 'equal ' ,please.

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HigherMinion
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(Original post by kiki37)
Okay, some people aren't comfortable to call themselves feminists because of the radicals. That's fine. Simply put, do you believe women are equal to you?
Allow me to refer you to my thread that asks this very question.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3063687

The conclusion is that men and women are not equal, nor are blacks and whites, nor are Brits and Italians. There is a lot about biology that feminism doesn't understand, not just the "radical" kind. Egalitarianism is just as reality-denying.

The only equality people have is that we all have a soul and are worthy of redemption. Everything physical or mental is subject to discrimination. Remember that discrimination=/=hate.
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kiki37
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(Original post by skunkboy)
Lol. Define the word 'equal ' ,please.

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Worthy of the same respect
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viddy9
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Thank you for your reply.

You need to study the sources you cite more critically:

"However, men still earn more at every other age group. The biggest gap comes for 50- to 59-year olds, where men earn 18 per cent more. Overall the gender gap has fallen to 9.4 per cent, compared with 10 per cent in 2013."

Yes, they are. Your source simply states that 2 in 5 victims of domestic violence are men. That means 3 in 5 are women. Ergo, women are more likely to be abused than men.

Also, in Britain, the rate of murder of men by a female partner is just 21% the rate of the murder of women by a male partner. Furthermore, as the Office for National Statistics in Britain concluded in 2013: “Women aged between 16 and 34 were more likely than any of the other age groups considered, (male or female) to be victims in the previous year of sexual assaults; non sexual partner abuse; stalking; or overall domestic violence”, and that, overall, 2.1 million more women were victims of domestic abuse since the age of 16 in Britain than men.

(Original post by poohat)
you seem like a sensible person but you need to stop blindly accepting lies and misleading statistics propagated by feminists without checking them first. The truth is that almost all of modern society is set up to benefit women, and there is almost literally no area in which they are disadvantaged
I do my own research; I don't rely on feminists nor do I rely on "men's rights" groups either - and it appears as if you need to check the statistics. Do you have any evidence for your last sentence? I presume you mean in Britain, because in other countries, we see honor killings against women and severe restrictions on what women can do. Still, some evidence would be nice.
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