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laylarose
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#121
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#121
(Original post by don100)
That's not rape.

The idea that a girl can wake up the morning after a night of enthusiastic sex and claim that she was too drunk to consent, is absolutely ridiculous.
OP did not mention there was enthusiastic sex... they were raped.
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LutherVan
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#122
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#122
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
Did you know the guy prior to that night?

If you did, how? What was your relationship with him?
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theadvisor
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#123
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#123
(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
I consider that to be rape. However, my understanding of the current laws is that drunken consent is still consent, and since you don't remember anything, it would be difficult to prove anything at all.
Drunken consent is not consent. If you are drunk you cannot be assumed to be consenting. But seriously trying to prove it in court would probably be a worse ordeal. Relatively few rape cases get to court and even then they are often, but not always, cleared. Hope you feel better soon!

There is loads of counselling/advice available, if you look around.
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greeneyedgirl
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#124
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#124
(Original post by LutherVan)
Did you know the guy prior to that night?

If you did, how? What was your relationship with him?
Doesn't matter whether they had had sex in the past or not...consent once does not mean consent forever.
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Tukan98
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#125
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#125
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
Hey, I hope you're alright, if you really want to talk to someone you don't know, feel free to pm me.
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geokinkladze
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#126
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#126
From what you say the law may decide you were too drunk to consent. If you wished to pursue this through legal channels you need to contact the police ASAP.
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Twinpeaks
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#127
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#127
What kind of a sick man would see a woman be sick in a taxi, sick over herself, so incapacitated she needed to be showered by someone else. And then have sex with her. Those men are predators I see them in clubs waiting for drunk women to prey on.



Sounds like rape to me, I'm so sorry you had to go through this. My only advice for this is, don't keep this to yourself and hold it all in, seek support from a close friend at least.
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Asolare
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#128
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#128
Drunken consent still counts as consenting to sex, no one can use that as an excuse. However it moreso seems to be a question of whether you actually said yes or not.

If you can't recall any of it, there's no real way to tell if it was rape or not. I do feel sorry that he took advantage of you, but in a court it would be very hard to prove it was rape considering you don't recall anything.
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laylarose
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#129
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#129
(Original post by jaw1990)
Wrong. Drunken consent is still consent.

What constitutes not having the "freedom and capacity" to consent is more than being drunk. The threshold for this has not been established.

DO NOT GIVE INCORRECT ADVISE.
Uh. Drunken consent is not consent. Severe intoxication (whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever) limits your rationality, therefore limits your ability to give consent. "DO NOT GIVE INCORRECT ADVISE", mate.
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Josb
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#130
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(Original post by laylarose)
Uh. Drunken consent is not consent. Severe intoxication (whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever) limits your rationality, therefore limits your ability to give consent. "DO NOT GIVE INCORRECT ADVISE", mate.
It depends on the level of drunkenness. You can still consent after a few drinks, but not if you're dead drunk.
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Wade-
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#131
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#131
(Original post by Inexorably)
Drunken consent still counts as consenting to sex, no one can use that as an excuse. However it moreso seems to be a question of whether you actually said yes or not.

If you can't recall any of it, there's no real way to tell if it was rape or not. I do feel sorry that he took advantage of you, but in a court it would be very hard to prove it was rape considering you don't recall anything.
You're only half right. Drunken consent can be valid but alcohol can also remove the capacity to consent


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don100
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#132
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(Original post by laylarose)
OP did not mention there was enthusiastic sex... they were raped.
She was not raped.

I have a go-to question that I immediately throw back at women whenever they start talking about being raped:

“The guy that did it is rotting away in prison, right?”

Not a single woman has ever answered “yes” to that question. Out of a very healthy sample size of women not one “yes.”

None of these women even pressed charges against their so-called attackers, either. After a little more interrogating, it was usually revealed that a previous boyfriend pressured them for sex, or they got drunk off their asses and didn’t remember what happened.

One girl in particular said she was raped by an ex-boyfriend at a party, and that her new boyfriend at the time broke up with her as a result. If

If a woman was truly the victim of a savage attack, she’s not going to just let it roll off her back like nothing happened. When sh*t gets real, women always go for help.
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LutherVan
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#133
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#133
(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
Doesn't matter whether they had had sex in the past or not...consent once does not mean consent forever.
If they had had sex once before, how is he suppose to know she is not consenting now.
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greeneyedgirl
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#134
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#134
(Original post by LutherVan)
If they had had sex once before, how is he suppose to know she is not consenting now.
Because consent must be given not assumed.
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rachrl03
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#135
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#135
As someone who has been in this situation I understand how you're feeling right now and honestly I'm pretty sure that counts as rape. The law states that if someone is too intoxicated (as it sounds like you were) then they are unable to give full consent and it counts as rape. Even if he believed you were consenting, it still counts as rape if you were severely intoxicated. So if he gave that as an excuse in court, it wouldn't count. According to the law, it's his responsibility to ensure that you fully consent and it sounds like he didn't so that.

From the sounds of it, if you weren't able to wash yourself, then theres no way you'd be thinking rationally enough to give consent. If you were to go to the police, people that had seen you that night (i.e friends and the taxi driver) would be interviewed and asked about your state that night (how drunk you were).

I would ignore the people saying that it would be too difficult to prove it and go to the police as soon as possible. Many cases that have involved the same circumstances have been won so it's not impossible to prove it.

I really hope you're feeling ok (I know you won't be feeling fine right now) and that you know that it's not your fault at all. I would advise talking to a close friend or family member about this and they can help you through this
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am1992
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#136
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(Original post by jaw1990)
That is not true. See McDonald's not guilty verdict in the Evan's case.

It is one thing to be unconscious and not moving an inch. It is another thing to have a blackout - which is also a state unconsciousness but with a very important difference. You can have a blackout but still appear to have the capacity to consent. One of the requirements of rape (under s.63) is that the defendant could not have reasonably believed that she was consenting.

Throwing up maybe ought to be enough to get a rape conviction - however, all law students know that that was not the case in Bree.

Like I said I do not hold an opinion. EACH CASE IS DIFFERENT AND ARE DECIDED BASED ON THEIR INDIVIDUAL FACTS.

First of all, to those who suggested that this is not a place for a legal debate, I fully appreciate your position. This is a highly sensitive area and having sat on the Scottish children's panel and seen the result of horrific incidents like this I am very aware of the need to be careful in how the issue is approached. However, I think it only fair to try to give the OP a realistic, objective understanding of the legal position. She will, I hope, get the help and support she needs from approaching the police and will get legal advice from an appointed solicitor.

To the person who responded, first of all, thank you for your impute. I am aware of the issues surrounding unconsciousness and my response was simplistic and thus not entirely accurate. However I took the approach going into too much depth may be difficult to understand and I cannot see, from the facts available, that it will be possible to prove the degree of unconsciousness anyway.

That said, the case law is there to prove it can be done and I accept your point. Hopefully it will contribute to the OPs understanding of her legal position and perhaps I should have addressed the issue in more depth.

I don't know if you plan to practice or are practicing law. I've switched to medicine so the law is of academic interest only. However, I would be very careful on your way of writing. I am only judging from your response to me but it comes across as particularly aggressive when writing in capitals. Yes, this is a chat forum, but the issue discussed is very serious and should be treated professionally.

Best wishes.
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Exon
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#137
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#137
Could've been date rape. Only way to be sure is to get a blood test.
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noey123
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#138
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#138
tbh i think that would be rap.

am so sorry OP, have you contacted the police?
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LutherVan
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#139
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#139
(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
Because consent must be given not assumed.
Of all the sex I know about and I have experienced, consent is assumed. Not given.

The only ones I know that are given are the ones by prostitutes after a payment is agreed or made.

Most sex is a case of where one of two (or more) people start touching the other(s) and they responded sensually to the touch.
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greeneyedgirl
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#140
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#140
(Original post by LutherVan)
Of all the sex I know about and I have experienced, consent is assumed. Not given.

The only ones I know that are given are the ones by prostitutes after a payment is agreed or made.

Most sex is a case of where one of two (or more) people start touching the other(s) and they responded sensually to the touch.
Consent doesn't have to be a "do you want this?" "yes" although plenty of campaigns say that is a good thing to do. You need to be sure that the person is willingly consenting and enthusiastically wanting to have sex, while being in a fit mental state to do so (in terms of alcohol or age or mental disability etc.)
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