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    (Original post by King of the Ring)
    They are in the top 5 for being the richest of the UK universities based on annual income, far ahead of Warwick.
    My question was how rich is Manchester?

    I know it's in the top 5 in the UK, but there's a huge gap between Oxbridge and the rest of the unis in this country. You speak like Manchester is in the league of Oxbridge. No, it isn't.
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    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    So, who the he!! are you that you think you're superior to everyone posting on this site?!!
    Come on tell us who you are and what you have accomplished so far.

    You made so many blunders on forum, wrote a lot of horrible lies and twisted a lot of facts. What made you think there's someone on this site who trusted you???
    When I want your opinions and stories, I will ask for them. Stick to the facts.
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    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    My question was how rich is Manchester?

    I know it's in the top 5 in the UK, but there's a huge gap between Oxbridge and the rest of the unis in this country. You speak like Manchester is in the league of Oxbridge. No, it isn't.
    Look it up. And there isn't a huge gap between Manchester and Oxford in terms of annual income, although there is a further gap against Cambridge.
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    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    If we would conduct a worldwide poll today asking the people which one is the better uni between Warwick and Manchester, I would wager half my wealth that Warwick would win in the poll, hands-down.
    I can't speak for the rest of the world obviously, but as a (former) international student and an education professional, I would recommend that you don't wager half your wealth on that.

    I don't know how the poll would go, but where I'm from Warwick is seen as a school people who don't make the grades go to.
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    (Original post by King of the Ring)
    They may not produce the same volume of research as the very top US colleges, but in terms of the quality of research they actually do, and the standard of teaching they deliver, and on offering top class facilities, why cannot they be seen as top 10 universities?
    Not even according to QS themselves. UCL is No 15 and Imp is No 17 in academic reputation. Citation per faculty is worse - No 67 for UCL and No 108 for Imp.
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    I think people are forgetting that the world rankings will almost never be the same as the UK rankings for many different reasons (international reputation, comparison to other institutions worldwide etc) plus the UK uni's that come out on top of these rankings are usually more internationally recognised than other unis people think 'deserve' to be higher.

    There are many other factors to this
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    (Original post by Magnus Taylor)
    I could tell. Evidently he is deluded.
    Are you ok?
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    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    From where you come from people prefer to attend university in Manchester than Warwick, is that what you're trying to tell me? Really??
    What I said was I wouldn't be too sure. I said I don't know. Before going to the UK I understand Warwick as an institution people go to because they cannot go to good or local universities. And most Warwick students and graduates I knew at that point were academic underperformers. Even the Headmaster of my sixth form who did undergrad at Warwick felt the need to explain that he only went to Warw because it's close to his home or something.

    On the other hand, Manchester isn't talked about. But with it being from a city a lot more well-known, people wouldn't think that they don't know of its existence. So one with a negative reputation, one with a neutral reputation.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    May I know where you come from?
    Hong Kong.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    If indeed there are more smart students preferring to attend Manchester over Warwick, why then that Manchester has lower grade requirements than Warwick, in almost ALL major subject areas?
    1. Doesn't mean international students prefer one or the other.
    2. Doesn't mean international students with better grades go to one or the other.
    3. It's been dealt with time and time again - Manchester has lower entry tariffs because it offers a lot more places. Same issue with Edinburgh.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    What I said was I wouldn't be too sure. I said I don't know. Before going to the UK I understand Warwick as an institution people go to because they cannot go to good or local universities. And most Warwick students and graduates I knew at that point were academic underperformers. Even the Headmaster of my sixth form who did undergrad at Warwick felt the need to explain that he only went to Warw because it's close to his home or something.

    On the other hand, Manchester isn't talked about. But with it being from a city a lot more well-known, people wouldn't think that they don't know of its existence. So one with a negative reputation, one with a neutral reputation.



    Hong Kong.



    1. Doesn't mean international students prefer one or the other.
    2. Doesn't mean international students with better grades go to one or the other.
    3. It's been dealt with time and time again - Manchester has lower entry tariffs because it offers a lot more places. Same issue with Edinburgh.
    I have many friends in my Warwick freshers group that are from elite Hong Kong schools and have all achieved fantastic grades. Warwick is rising both internationally and nationally and will continue to do so
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    is this like, a sad tsr version of the premier league
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    (Original post by Magnus Taylor)
    I have many friends in my Warwick freshers group that are from elite Hong Kong schools and have all achieved fantastic grades. Warwick is rising both internationally and nationally and will continue to do so
    And who's to say it's not the same at Manchester?

    Sorry, but anecdotal evidence just doesn't cut it. This is why based on mine I didn't say Manchester would win, I just said I wouldn't be so sure about Warwick winning.
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    (Original post by Magnus Taylor)
    I have many friends in my Warwick freshers group that are from elite Hong Kong schools and have all achieved fantastic grades. Warwick is rising both internationally and nationally and will continue to do so
    There is a difference between getting into Warwick and getting into HKU. HKU is on another level.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    And who's to say it's not the same at Manchester?

    Sorry, but anecdotal evidence just doesn't cut it. This is why based on mine I didn't say Manchester would win, I just said I wouldn't be so sure about Warwick winning.
    I will give you some figures. On the UCAS League tables for History, Warwick is 5th, Manchester is 24th. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...ings?s=History
    For Economics, Warwick is 2nd, Manchester is 32nd. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...gs?s=Economics.
    For Maths Warwick is 5th, Manchester is 28th. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...?s=Mathematics

    Internationally, Warwick is 15th for History, Manchester is 38th. http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...=false+search=.


    You get the picture...
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    (Original post by Magnus Taylor)
    I will give you some figures. On the UCAS League tables for History, Warwick is 5th, Manchester is 24th. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...ings?s=History
    For Economics, Warwick is 2nd, Manchester is 32nd. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...gs?s=Economics.
    For Maths Warwick is 5th, Manchester is 28th. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...?s=Mathematics

    Internationally, Warwick is 15th for History, Manchester is 38th. http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...=false+search=.


    You get the picture...
    I can also give you some figures:

    Ariana Grande's 'Problem' sold 438,000 copies in its first week in the US, whilst Miley Cyrus's 'Wrecking Ball' peaked at 477,000 copies in a week.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proble...a_Grande_song)

    Madonna's '4 Minutes' moved 217,000 copies in its first week and 'Hung Up' opened with much fewer copies, débuting only at No 5.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_Minutes

    These figures are so relevant as your figures are to our discussion at hand.

    Not only are your figures discipline-specific, they're just irrelevant to what international students prefer or which one of them attracts international students with higher grades.

    Entry tariffs data are for mostly home students and doesn't say anything about international admission scores.

    Overall ranking is about numerous items and not whether international students with higher grades go to particular institution.
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    (Original post by King of the Ring)
    Warwick isn't seen as a Durham or a St Andrews in the UK, it doesn't have quite the same prestige, even if it is possibly a UK top 10 university otherwise. I imagine it is something to do with not having much tradition.
    Go to Durham.
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    Get a ****ing job.
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    (Original post by Magnus Taylor)
    No they aren't, you have quoted music figures lol. I was using three academic degrees as an example of how highly ranked Warwick was in comparison to Manchester. Stay away from this argument, I only seek to undermine Kingofthering
    But you quoted me and that discussion was on whether international students prefer Warwick or Manchester.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    But you quoted me and that discussion was on whether international students prefer Warwick or Manchester.
    The entry standards are often the true indicators of university prestige. The higher the entry level they require, the more prestigious they become.
    Applicants from abroad would also have to use those indicators in order to gauge themselves up, and in order for them to be able to establish his or her chances of acceptance into the university.
    Since Warwick asks for higher entry requirements, that simply means, Warwick attracts the better, smarter, more accomplished students than Manchester does. It would be unnatural for a university to ask for higher entry requirements when it isn't considered prestigious. In other words, London Met couldn't ask entry requirements similar to, say, Durham. It doesn't have the wow factor that Durham has, to the view and sight of the smart students.
    And this is precisely the reason why I do not trust that ranking (QS) at all. It simply doesn't picture the reality.
    People who have heard of Brown University, for instance, would know that it is more prestigious than the University of Texas at Austin despite that UT-Austin is ranked way higher than Brown does. Brown may not be popular to the masses and general public. But who cares! Those aren't the people that Brown tries to attract. Brown attracts those students who are bright and have very high academic achievements, not those ordinary guys in the street.
    The same can be said of our unis here in the UK. Some of them are more well-known than the others. Warwick, Durham and St Andrews, for instance, aren't particularly popular to the ordinary guys in the street abroad. They're not household names either. They -- most likely - aren't as well known as, say, Manchester or King's London or Nottingham. But for the those who care, those who research UK unis, those who are applying for top UK unis, they will then know that Warwick, Durham and StA are the more respected unis compared to Man, King's and Notts. And, that is what is meant by prestige in the application to education. Though I have to admit that the difference amongst these given unis is not substantial. Though it can be felt when you're actually applying to unis and seeking for entry into the top dogs.
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    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    The entry standards are often the true indicators of university prestige.
    Occasionally HKU has higher entry tariffs than Oxbridge. HKU is not more or as prestigious as Oxbridge are anywhere.

    You're talking about international admission here, which renders entry tariffs for home students not useful here.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    Applicants from abroad would also have to use those indicators in order to gauge themselves up, and in order for them to be able to establish his or her chances of acceptance into the university.
    Very simplistic way to thinking about university application. So applicants don't think about, for example, further study options? Or career opportunities in their home countries and beyond?

    In English and creative writing, Durham has a higher entry tariff compares to Cambridge. Based on your logic, this essentially means that international students will prefer Durham over Cambridge, and that they do. Is that the case? Do you think the international applicant would indeed turn Cambridge down because Durham has a higher entry tariff?

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    Since Warwick asks for higher entry requirements,
    Just to be a bit pedantic here and to point out that the grades a university asks for may not necessarily be the grades they actually get.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    that simply means, Warwick attracts the better, smarter, more accomplished students than Manchester does.
    If this is so simple and straight-forward, then why are people still debating whether Oxford or Cambridge is more prestigious, when Cambridge obviously asks for more?

    In this case of Manchester versus Warwick, this is even less true when Manchester accepts a lot more students; and thus ever if the average Warwick student has a higher score (which by the way, doesn't mean this student is 'better, smarter, or more accomplished'), it doesn't mean that Manchester doesn't attract them. It's just that they also offer to people with much lower grades.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    It would be unnatural for a university to ask for higher entry requirements when it isn't considered prestigious.
    It's actually common for British universities to intentionally ask for a higher grade ever if in the end they get everyone below that.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    And this is precisely the reason why I do not trust that ranking (QS) at all. It simply doesn't picture the reality.
    People who have heard of Brown University, for instance, would know that it is more prestigious than the University of Texas at Austin despite that UT-Austin is ranked way higher than Brown does. Brown may not be popular to the masses and general public. But who cares! Those aren't the people that Brown tries to attract. Brown attracts those students who are bright and have very high academic achievements, not those ordinary guys in the street.
    Don't quote me and say something that has nothing to do with my posts.

    (Original post by jameslaparan)
    The same can be said of our unis here in the UK. Some of them are more well-known than the others. Warwick, Durham and St Andrews, for instance, aren't particularly popular to the ordinary guys in the street abroad. They're not household names either. They -- most likely - aren't as well known as, say, Manchester or King's London or Nottingham. But for the those who care, those who research UK unis, those who are applying for top UK unis, they will then know that Warwick, Durham and StA are the more respected unis compared to Man, King's and Notts. And, that is what is meant by prestige in the application to education. Though I have to admit that the difference amongst these given unis is not substantial. Though it can be felt when you're actually applying to unis and seeking for entry into the top dogs.
    OK. So what is this post really about? Initially I quoted to say I wouldn't be so sure that international students would all prefer Warwick over Manchester, and now it seems you're taking the steps to agree with me, without explicitly saying that you are.

    You don't have to say you're wrong or anything, you just have to either transfer your wealth to someone else so if you do lose that half of your wealth you do get to keep them in a dodgy way, or just pretend that nothing has happened and go re-watch the new Doctor Who series premiere.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Occasionally HKU has higher entry tariffs than Oxbridge. HKU is not more or as prestigious as Oxbridge are anywhere.

    You're talking about international admission here, which renders entry tariffs for home students not useful here.
    We're talking about Manchester and Warwick here. We're talking about two universities that are both located in the same country. This way, it is easier for us to pit them against each other because they both are under the same entrance system (UCAS), follow similar grading conversion (A-Levels, IB, etc), attract the same demographic (fresh graduates from high schools, IB, A-Levels, etc) and are playing in the same battle field (UK).

    Do not compare a Hong Kong university to one located in a different country. Each country has its own different and unique admission system, and attracts different demographic -- graduates of their own. HKU was founded to serve the people in HK, not British. Cambridge was founded to serve their own not the Chinese. While they do accept international applicants, the fact is, they largely were established to primarily cater their own.

    But even then, you said, occasionally. So, it's not like, by and large, HKU is more difficult to get into than Cambridge, right? Because, by and large, Cambridge is more different to get into than HKU. Correct?

    Now, let's go back to the point where you're confused.

    I think you confused prestige with popularity.

    I think HKU isn't as popular as Cambridge. But I think HKU is a prestigious university in itself. When I checked out the top schools in HK/China, it appeared right there at the very top of the heap. It is considered the top school in that region of Asia. It may not be as popular as Cambridge worldwide, but it certainly is a prestigious university nonetheless, and it attracts some of the very best students in that part of Asia.
    The same can be said of many prestigious colleges in America that were unranked by QS. Colleges like Williams, Amherst, Swharthmore, Pomona and Harvey Mudd are some of the most prestigious colleges in America. They may not be popular schools, and perhaps they don't ring a bell to you, but that wouldn't make them less prestigious schools. They are some of the most difficult colleges to get into. Again, they're not popular schools. But they certainly are prestigious, somewhat similar to the case of Warwick, Durham and St Andrews. They're not necessarily a worldwide name yet. But they certainly are prestigious universities, nonetheless. They are selective. And, they are exclusive.
 
 
 
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