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Are there any Muslim converts on here preferably from a judea-christian background? watch

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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    This is so interesting? I didn't think of it that way. I thought it was just one version of Islam and that was it. But now I know what you're talking about. So like salafis and sufis etc?
    there are many versions of Islam - not just the main Sunni/Shia split or the Salafi/Sufi differences

    You have those who are not recognised as Muslims by the "mainstream" (such as Ahmadiyya, Submitters, Nation of Islam etc) and then you have even more marginal offshoots of Islam (such as Druzes or even Bahai's)

    But the most bewildering fact is that Muslims disagree on an extremely wide array of subjects - ranging from whether it's permissible to listen to music to whether ex-Muslims should be executed (and at which conditions)

    Then you have political Islam (Islamism) which is a huge field in itself ...

    If you want to have a taste of political Islam a well as of Islamic lifestyle and theoretical issues, just have a look at a forum such as www.ummah.com/forum
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    This is why I think it's a bad idea to post anything that has to do with religion independently on this site. Even if you're just asking for advice it gets degenerated into a battle about who's 'right' and who's 'wrong' and people insulting your beliefs.
    Honestly sometimes I think this site is filled with people at the edge of their seats just waiting for someone to post something they don't agree with so they can pounce on that person.

    @hirlho I doubt you'll get anything more useful from this thread.
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    (Original post by bekinwari)
    This is why I think it's a bad idea to post anything that has to do with religion independently on this site. Even if you're just asking for advice it gets degenerated into a battle about who's 'right' and who's 'wrong' and people insulting your beliefs.
    Honestly sometimes I think this site is filled with people at the edge of their seats just waiting for someone to post something they don't agree with so they can pounce on that person.
    Sadly this is true,
    I could not have said it better my self.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    there are many versions of Islam - not just the main Sunni/Shia split or the Salafi/Sufi differences

    You have those who are not recognised as Muslims by the "mainstream" (such as Ahmadiyya, Submitters, Nation of Islam etc) and then you have even more marginal offshoots of Islam (such as Druzes or even Bahai's)

    But the most bewildering fact is that Muslims disagree on an extremely wide array of subjects - ranging from whether it's permissible to listen to music to whether ex-Muslims should be executed (and at which conditions)

    Then you have political Islam (Islamism) which is a huge field in itself ...

    If you want to have a taste of political Islam a well as of Islamic lifestyle and theoretical issues, just have a look at a forum such as www.ummah.com/forum
    Thanks for the insight
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    If I post a thread about Mathematics wanting to speak to people who also like Mathematics, and you come in and start talking negatively about Maths, you are out of place are you not, you will offend people will you not ? It isn't about what is fine under the TSR guidelines, I'm talking to you in terms of basic respect for others. The reason why I am speaking on behalf of OP is because she has several exams this month and has been through a lot recently. She created this thread to speak with people like her, to take her mind of her current stressful situation to help cope with exams. Her being bombarded with some of these posts is just not fair. Though I do appreciate that you may not have known this
    That's a completely false analogy which completely ignores the post you're replying to. 'starting talking negatively about maths' -- You may consider it negative to point out obvious things like the penalty for apostasy in Islam to somebody considering converting to the faith, but I don't. I think it is important for people to make informed decisions about things that have the potential to be a threat to their personal safety should they change their mind.

    I don't see how I haven't afforded the OP 'basic respect.' Not doing so would be if I launched into an anti-Muslim tirade using expletives and common abuse. But, you're right, pointing out important things is clearly equivalent to that. (sarcasm)

    Again, let the OP speak for herself. I don't need you to be a mouthpiece for her. Nobody has bombarded her with anything -- what on Earth are you talking about? In any case, I can only be held accountable for my posts, not the other apparently unfair posts you seem to detect. She may have exams, but that's no reason for you to turn into her official representative. If she wants to tell me to f*ck off, as she has others, then let her do that herself instead of wasting my time making accusations against me and then ignoring entirely my response to those accusations because you've run out of arguments.

    All in all, you're making little to no sense to me so I think it best that we terminate the conversation at this point.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    That's a completely false analogy which completely ignores the post you're replying to. 'starting talking negatively about maths' -- You may consider it negative to point out obvious things like the penalty for apostasy in Islam to somebody considering converting to the faith, but I don't. I think it is important for people to make informed decisions about things that have the potential to be a threat to their personal safety should they change their mind.

    I don't see how I haven't afforded the OP 'basic respect.' Not doing so would be if I launched into an anti-Muslim tirade using expletives and common abuse. But, you're right, pointing out important things is clearly equivalent to that. (sarcasm)

    Again, let the OP speak for herself. I don't need you to be a mouthpiece for her. Nobody has bombarded her with anything -- what on Earth are you talking about? In any case, I can only be held accountable for my posts, not the other apparently unfair posts you seem to detect. She may have exams, but that's no reason for you to turn into her official representative. If she wants to tell me to f*ck off, as she has others, then let her do that herself instead of wasting my time making accusations against me and then ignoring entirely my response to those accusations because you've run out of arguments.

    All in all, you're making little to no sense to me so I think it best that we terminate the conversation at this point.
    Create another thread, tag me in it, I'd be happy to debate with you there.
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    Create another thread, tag me in it, I'd be happy to debate with you there.
    No thanks. You make no sense here and I have no reason to think you'll make any on another thread.

    Good day.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    No thanks. You make no sense here and I have no reason to think you'll make any on another thread.

    Good day.
    Peace.
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    She has been studying Islam by herself for many years. She knows more about Islam than many Muslims alive. She done her independent reading on Islam, it is ridiculous to say that she is being taken in by 'proselytising' Muslims on this forum, did you even read the thread title ? She's a very educated person who has been raised free of religion and has done her own studying on religion. That's why she is frustrated that people like you are trying to create a debate out of this thread, or tell her to "watch out" about Islam or say things like "one way ticket". She simply wants to talk to people who are like her, she doesn't want people to debate about Islam or religion in general.

    If you want to 'warn' her, if that is even what you want to call it, then PM her, and leave this thread for its intended purposes.

    It's like walking in to a room full of people who just want to talk about Darwinism, and you say "Are you sure you want to believe in Darwinism?" and then you start giving reasons why you think Darwinism is wrong. That is not the right place to do it and you will almost certainly offend some people.
    THANK YOU! :hugs: Can't rep but you've said everything I was thinking, couldn't have said it better myself. I just wanted 'friends' and look what this thread turned into. If I hadn't made it clear I just wanted to speak to those on my footsteps I would've been accused of being a Muslim trying to get people to convert (which I have been accused of BEFORE) and now that I did I'm some radicalised teen and I need saving? Jesus christ


    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Don't feel you have to read them all. It is just a random selection of books covering different topics that may be of interest, or may not

    Oriental studies sounds interesting :yep:

    Well, I was brought up Christian, but am now irreligious. But prior to my becoming irreligious, I started looking into other faiths and learning about them and became intrigued by the diversity of different religious beliefs and customs.
    Well I'll have a look through them when I'm done with exams as I do like reading.
    Spoiler:
    Show

    I'm a total nerd
    So do you believe in a higher power? What do you find interesting when studying all religion as a whole? What do you find interesting in Islam?

    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Inshallah you'll know when the time is right for you to convert and if you genuinely want to convert to islam then I'm happy for you.

    I know what you mean,I could never imagine myself not believing in God, Christ makes my life worth living! No regrets

    Thanks for being so open-minded and understanding B (Hope you don't mind me calling you that!)

    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Thank you for the rather dry monologue on what is pretty obvious. I have not doubted her education or research into Islam. This is a thread on a public forum; I'm allowed to say what I like within the TSR guidelines. Why you keep trying to shut people up on the basis that the OP doesn't want this or that on her thread is beyond me.

    Bold bit: am I wrong? I consider it important to point out the penalty for apostasy in Islam to anybody considering joining the faith. If you consider that religious bullying, so be it. She may already know it but I'm going to point it out anyway because it's not a certainty that she does. As fro 'watch out' -- I think that's more or less justified in this current age of people radicalising themselves over the Internet. I find it highly amusing when the same people are up in arms asking for sympathy when somebody who's radicalised themselves over the Internet goes to Syria without their parents' consent and then, when somebody tries to make sure, despite how ridiculous it may seem, that people don't get radicalised, that's apparently an insult to their intelligence. What is it that you want, then? Seriously, stop trying to regulate what's said on this website; it's not your private property. And although I suspect that the OP wholeheartedly agrees with you, I suggest you let her speak for herself.



    Enough of your lecturing about what I can and can't do on a website that you don't own. I am perfectly within the TSR guidelines in what I say -- that is the only rule that applies here.

    Oh, and let the OP speak for herself for once. If she's as educated as you say she is, she can probably handle that herself.
    Lol Hydeman I'm sure you mean well 😂But I'm no radicalised teen - I don't have the time to talk to people online, the only online platform I use is TSR, I don't even use Facebook (don't have the time)! I'm like a full time nerd with just one goal: getting into Oxbridge so I can study what I'm passionate about I have close friends that I interact with but they don't share the same views as me and for once instead of disagreeing, I just want to speak to someone who agrees with me I agree with them and you know, all skittles and rainbows and shizzz. So don't worry I'm no teen trying to get to syria haha. And I'm not calling for a debate either - it was literally to see if there is anybody out there who are in the same position as me and shares my views.

    I am also a prospective model so I wouldn't want to be associated with terrorism, not that anyone would though since I'm anonymous on here other than my name Hilary :

    Also there is no apostasy in Islam :rofl: I know why you're saying what you're saying but there isn't. People were never executed for leaving Islam. In fact if there was apostasy in Islam then like every non-muslims would be considered apostates staying within the islamic theological frame because in Islam every baby is born in the state of fitrah but the society around them changes them into whatever they believe in or their lack of believe - so going by this every person thats not a muslim is an apostate and therefore punishable by death if there is apostasy in islam. Thats simply not true

    To reply to your previous posts though, I believe we have also spoken previously on my other thread haven't we? Because someone had suggested Deism to me. You're correct to think I like Islam because it does fall into place with my views but I also like the logic behind it and how ever verse in the Quran is interconnected with every other verse and it's just a spectacular theology to me. Look I don't know if I believe in Islam but I certainly know I really really like it - it's soo interesting!

    What I find to be most interesting is and also further enhancement of my belief on how most muslims (im sorry I don't mean to offend anyone) don't follow the Quran - because Allah asked everyone to question everything, including allah. In fact allah asked you to criticise his book - and in order to be a critic of something you have to be a expert in it and I think this is where I find it really interesting and actually 'fun' because if someone actually tried to be an expert in Quran with no prejudice form when they first stat studying the Quran, 10 years may past and they'd still consider them a student because they would very well be blown away by the beauty of it and therefore its actually his way of inviting you to His religion. It's one thing to study something with no previous prejudice while studying it and another thing to incorporate that into it. And at the same time the prophet was insulted so many times and not just insulted but had rocks and stones thrown his way - he didn't slaughter them so I find the whole Charlie Hebdo incident and then the one in America to be completely absurd. Just as there is freedom of expression there is the freedom to feel however you want to - and it's understandable for muslims to be upset by it, I'm sure the prophet was hurt when people threw stones at him or that old lady left bones on his path. But doesn't mean he went to her house and murdered her - he actually was alarmed when one night he got up to pray and she didn't put bones in his path so he asked her neighbour and learnt she was sick and nursed her back to health - didn't even speak to her about islam! It's quite evident contemporary Islam is so far off from its classical (and hence I'd argue true) teachings.


    As for you referring me to Deism I would consider myself a semi-Deist :yep: (as I do believe our actions lead us to our Destiny) but I don't see how this would mean I can't appreciate islam either y'know?

    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    Yeah just 2, he's small but growing! He runs around and can already talk so yeah aha. He's slightly chubby, as most 2 year olds are aha. Yeah you should just ignore the off topic comments, don't let it get to you

    Wow I'm really impressed by the amount of knowledge you have on the subject at hand. You speak very convincingly about your views on matters, which I personally agree with. I too do not believe in sects, the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said to not divide yourselves in to sects. You have a very interesting background. Islam is very beautiful when interpreted in the correct manner, I'm delighted that you are interested in it. Glad you tagged me here !
    I love chubby kids haha, they sooo cute! My neighbours little daughter is 2 as well and I sometimes babysit for her - little Tammy is sooo cute and chubby and adorable. She loves me so you know she want's me to pick her up but I can't cause I'm not strong enough but anyways this one time I tried and struggled and went like "Tammy you so heavy I can't baby girl" and she's remembered it since then so every time I get her parents to raise her so I can hold her in my arms she goes like "no no you can't, im heavy tammy heavy" Hahahaha :rofl:

    I don't know why you removed the bit where you said you could listen to me speak all day about my views but I liked that haha ☺️ I do talk a lot when I talk so I wouldn't mind that if you wouldn't
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    (Original post by bekinwari)
    This is why I think it's a bad idea to post anything that has to do with religion independently on this site. Even if you're just asking for advice it gets degenerated into a battle about who's 'right' and who's 'wrong' and people insulting your beliefs.
    Honestly sometimes I think this site is filled with people at the edge of their seats just waiting for someone to post something they don't agree with so they can pounce on that person.

    @hirlho I doubt you'll get anything more useful from this thread.
    I've learnt my lesson - never again honestly! I posted once before but didn't enclose it to just people with similar belief to mine and people started accusing me of being a muslim deceiving everyone to convert them: like do I seriously not have anything better to do?

    So this time when I say its only for people with a particular belief they stop calling me a muslim in disguise but then now I'm a radicalised teen that needs saving. Why can't I be non-muslim and appreciate Islam?
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    I've learnt my lesson - never again honestly! I posted once before but didn't enclose it to just people with similar belief to mine and people started accusing me of being a muslim deceiving everyone to convert them: like do I seriously not have anything better to do?

    So this time when I say its only for people with a particular belief they stop calling me a muslim in disguise but then now I'm a radicalised teen that needs saving. Why can't I be non-muslim and appreciate Islam?
    You've done nothing wrong. Don't let this thread get in the way of you and your priorities
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    You've done nothing wrong. Don't let this thread get in the way of you and your priorities
    I know, I just regret making this thread now although I did find one person who I'm able to talk to so thats one good thing that came out of it. how come I can't post on your VM btw?

    Also I look forward to your reply to my above post
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    THANK YOU! :hugs: Can't rep but you've said everything I was thinking, couldn't have said it better myself. I just wanted 'friends' and look what this thread turned into. If I hadn't made it clear I just wanted to speak to those on my footsteps I would've been accused of being a Muslim trying to get people to convert (which I have been accused of BEFORE) and now that I did I'm some radicalised teen and I need saving? Jesus christ
    Aw no problem! I know how you feel. There are a lot of anti religion people on TSR that I guess you just have to ignore. This is not to say that I do not respect people who do not believe in religion, it is one thing to be anti religion, and another to be non religious. Anti religion involves hate speech. It's kind of strange how people would accuse you of trying to convert people, when you're not even Muslim Oh no Hill, you need saving LOL. Some naive people out there.

    (Original post by hilrho)
    I know, I just regret making this thread now although I did find one person who I'm able to talk to so thats one good thing that came out of it. how come I can't post on your VM btw?

    Also I look forward to your reply to my above post
    There is no need to regret anything. Your intentions for creating this thread were clear. It is the incompetence of others that lead this thread to be a debate. I'm glad you found one person who you can talk to.

    I have disabled my VM's on TSR a while ago.

    How was your history exam ?
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    I know, I just regret making this thread now although I did find one person who I'm able to talk to so thats one good thing that came out of it. how come I can't post on your VM btw?

    Also I look forward to your reply to my above post
    Hey didn't you make a thread about this stuff ages ago?
    also this was/is a debate forum and in the context of religion people will have strong views seriously look at any poltical section it doesn't matter.

    you put this out to the public so yeah people will post people will fight.
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    Lol Hydeman I'm sure you mean well 😂But I'm no radicalised teen - I don't have the time to talk to people online, the only online platform I use is TSR, I don't even use Facebook (don't have the time)! I'm like a full time nerd with just one goal: getting into Oxbridge so I can study what I'm passionate about I have close friends that I interact with but they don't share the same views as me and for once instead of disagreeing, I just want to speak to someone who agrees with me I agree with them and you know, all skittles and rainbows and shizzz. So don't worry I'm no teen trying to get to syria haha. And I'm not calling for a debate either - it was literally to see if there is anybody out there who are in the same position as me and shares my views.

    I am also a prospective model so I wouldn't want to be associated with terrorism, not that anyone would though since I'm anonymous on here other than my name Hilary :
    Fair enough.

    Also there is no apostasy in Islam :rofl: I know why you're saying what you're saying but there isn't. People were never executed for leaving Islam. In fact if there was apostasy in Islam then like every non-muslims would be considered apostates staying within the islamic theological frame because in Islam every baby is born in the state of fitrah but the society around them changes them into whatever they believe in or their lack of believe - so going by this every person thats not a muslim is an apostate and therefore punishable by death if there is apostasy in islam. Thats simply not true
    I know you don't want a debate here but this simply isn't true. Fitrah simply means a state of being pure, as considered from an Islamic viewpoint. There is a tradition in Islam of reciting the Adhan (call to prayer) in a newborn baby's right ear, which apparently conveys to the baby that he or she is a Muslim. Without this, no person, even from an Islamic viewpoint, is considered a Muslim in the same way as those who do have it recited in their ear, which is all the more sinister in the sense that it's a fait accompli -- the person is declared a Muslim by their parents and then the penalty for leaving is death, following a short period in which the person is given the opportunity to repent and return to Islam. It's just not true that the concept of apostasy doesn't exist in Islam. Some Hadith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Hadith.

    To reply to your previous posts though, I believe we have also spoken previously on my other thread haven't we? Because someone had suggested Deism to me. You're correct to think I like Islam because it does fall into place with my views but I also like the logic behind it and how ever verse in the Quran is interconnected with every other verse and it's just a spectacular theology to me. Look I don't know if I believe in Islam but I certainly know I really really like it - it's soo interesting!
    I think it was this very thread, actually. I suggested deism because you said that you think that there is a higher power and you're less sure about other aspects of your religious beliefs -- this fits in well with deism because it only follows the argument from design in saying that the universe is too ordered not to require a ordering force of some kind, but stops short of theism in then making statements about what this ordering force's name is, what it would like us to do, what it wouldn't like us to do, and so on. I'm just slightly worried that you're looking at religions that hold views that you'd like to be true, but don't necessarily believe to be true otherwise. :3 As general advice I always say that it's best not to believe anything because you'd like the sound of it or would like it to be true, but because you feel that it is true.

    If you're interested in theology, you can always study the religion without actually joining it. That's an option too.

    What I find to be most interesting is and also further enhancement of my belief on how most muslims (im sorry I don't mean to offend anyone) don't follow the Quran - because Allah asked everyone to question everything, including allah. In fact allah asked you to criticise his book - and in order to be a critic of something you have to be a expert in it and I think this is where I find it really interesting and actually 'fun' because if someone actually tried to be an expert in Quran with no prejudice form when they first stat studying the Quran, 10 years may past and they'd still consider them a student because they would very well be blown away by the beauty of it and therefore its actually his way of inviting you to His religion. It's one thing to study something with no previous prejudice while studying it and another thing to incorporate that into it. And at the same time the prophet was insulted so many times and not just insulted but had rocks and stones thrown his way - he didn't slaughter them so I find the whole Charlie Hebdo incident and then the one in America to be completely absurd. Just as there is freedom of expression there is the freedom to feel however you want to - and it's understandable for muslims to be upset by it, I'm sure the prophet was hurt when people threw stones at him or that old lady left bones on his path. But doesn't mean he went to her house and murdered her - he actually was alarmed when one night he got up to pray and she didn't put bones in his path so he asked her neighbour and learnt she was sick and nursed her back to health - didn't even speak to her about islam! It's quite evident contemporary Islam is so far off from its classical (and hence I'd argue true) teachings.
    Not sure whether you're serious about the parts in bold. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, studied Islamic Studies as a compulsory subject in school, and have read the Koran in both Arabic and English numerous times. I've never come across that but hey-ho.

    While Muhammad's perseverance in the face of persecution is admirable, I always find that it's not exactly that unique in history -- almost anybody who ever proposed an idea not in line with the ideas of the ruling class of their time suffered for it, be it Jesus, Galileo, Socrates or anybody else. Freedom of expression is a relatively new idea, in the grand scheme of things. I don't really see how that's relevant to the Charlie Hebdo tragedy. :dontknow:

    As for you referring me to Deism I would consider myself a semi-Deist :yep: (as I do believe our actions lead us to our Destiny) but I don't see how this would mean I can't appreciate islam either y'know?
    You can appreciate it while still being a deist but they're kind of incompatible in the sense that deism strictly believes that nothing can be known about the creator of the universe and that it's likely that it is a non-intervening creator, which is the polar opposite of what theistic religions such as Islam say.

    In any case, good luck to you in your future endeavours (including getting into Oxbridge!).
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    There is no need to regret anything. Your intentions for creating this thread were clear. It is the incompetence of others that lead this thread to be a debate. I'm glad you found one person who you can talk to.

    I have disabled my VM's on TSR a while ago.

    How was your history exam ?
    I'll tell you all about it in my PM when I get a chance to write it

    How's uni going? I can't remember if you're on your second or third year !

    Also I forgot to tell you, I am a prospective model as well I will be doing some work in the industry after my A2s in May :yep:

    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    @[email protected]
    Are they converts/islamophiles?
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    There are too many big paragraphs here. I refuse to read them
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    I'll tell you all about it in my PM when I get a chance to write it

    How's uni going? I can't remember if you're on your second or third year !

    Also I forgot to tell you, I am a prospective model as well I will be doing some work in the industry after my A2s in May :yep:
    I look forward to your reply

    I'm a year 3 dental student. University is going well, a lot less stressful than last year thankfully. Though, I have my first exam on Monday - Endodontics. :|

    Oh wow that's really cool! I always wanted to be a model, not a runway model but like a catalog model, but never got the chance to look in to it, though my friends always tell me I should be one aha. How'd you get in to it ?
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    I look forward to your reply

    I'm a year 3 dental student. University is going well, a lot less stressful than last year thankfully. Though, I have my first exam on Monday - Endodontics. :|

    Oh wow that's really cool! I always wanted to be a model, not a runway model but like a catalog model, but never got the chance to look in to it, though my friends always tell me I should be one aha. How'd you get in to it ?
    yes I remember from reading your PM - thats why I thought I should tell you I was asked to start like this year but I'm putting it up for after my A2 during my gap year, I've got a thread about it: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3585331
 
 
 
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