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    (Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal)
    His opinions make no sense, he cannot just claim that things he like are British and things he dislikes are anti-British.
    I don't think he realises quite how dangerous and toxic nationalism is
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    (Original post by william walker)
    Xenophobia is fear of the unknown. So no, not xenophobic at all. You are Oikophobic because you fear the Britain you know and want to change it. We can do this all day throwing terms at each other however it is pointless to do that.

    My mother is Irish, I am not Irish. I am British. You can forsake your foreign legacy and fully accept British legacy if you wanted to do so. As I have done. You don't have to renounce that your parents are of Azerbaijani ancestry or have an interest in learning more about it. However you can't call yourself Azerbaijani and British at the same time.
    Don't try and give me a Greek lesson, xenos means "foreign" - go get yourself an education.
    And I am not afraid of Britain. It's done me a lot of favours, but not everyone in the country has had as many opportunities as I've had. Is it wrong for me to want that for everyone else?
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    (Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal)
    His opinions make no sense, he cannot just claim that things he like are British and things he dislikes are anti-British.
    I am not claiming what I like as British. I don't like the Media or the House of Commons. However I accept they are British and institutions of the British nation state which must be maintained. Unlike others who aren't British who seek to get rid of the Monarchy, Aristocracy and Church of England.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    I am not claiming what I like as British. I don't like the Media or the House of Commons. However I accept they are British and institutions of the British nation state which must be maintained. Unlike others who aren't British who seek to get rid of the Monarchy, Aristocracy and Church of England.
    Why does being opposed to things you have defined as British mean that the person doing the opposing is no longer British?
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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    Don't try and give me a Greek lesson, xenos means "foreign." Go get yourself an education.
    I see. However I don't find these terms help at all. Just catch words to lump everybody together who wants to maintain something or restore it, with people who hate foreigners. So Peter Hitchens is a xenophobe and so is Nick Griffin. Yet they have totally different views.

    It isn't wrong for you to want something. However what you want comes at the person expense of everybody else. It also leads to increasing power of the government, loss of Liberty and Justice. As the government increases its power no other institutions can constrain it. So the government does what it wants.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    I am not claiming what I like as British. I don't like the Media or the House of Commons. However I accept they are British and institutions of the British nation state which must be maintained. Unlike others who aren't British who seek to get rid of the Monarchy, Aristocracy and Church of England.
    If you're political career doesn't work out you can always get a second job as a cuckoo clock.

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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    I don't think he realises quite how dangerous and toxic nationalism is
    Actually I do. Look at Irish nationalism or Ulster Loyalists. Or Israel.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    Actually I do. Look at Irish nationalism or Ulster Loyalists. Or Israel.
    I think you ought to look at yourself first
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    (Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal)
    Why does being opposed to things you have defined as British mean that the person doing the opposing is no longer British?
    Because how can someone claim to be British when they don't support the institution which make up the state? By the way I don't mean you aren't British in terms of your legal position and physical being. I mean in mental and legacy terms you aren't British.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    Because how can someone claim to be British when they don't support the institution which make up the state? By the way I don't mean you aren't British in terms of your legal position and physical being. I mean in mental and legacy terms you aren't British.
    Because if I want to live in this country only 2 things are required of me

    1. I pay any taxes I owe

    2. I obey the law

    Both of these things are objective in contrast with your ideas where nobody is really sure what true British culture or British institutions are
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    (Original post by william walker)
    I see. However I don't find these terms help at all. Just catch words to lump everybody together who wants to maintain something or restore it, with people who hate foreigners. So Peter Hitchens is a xenophobe and so is Nick Griffin. Yet they have totally different views.

    It isn't wrong for you to want something. However what you want comes at the person expense of everybody else. It also leads to increasing power of the government, loss of Liberty and Justice. As the government increases its power no other institutions can constrain it. So the government does what it wants.
    You're a xenophobe because you insist on marginalising those who don't want to renounce their ancestry. You lump us in with the "sort that run off and join the IRA and ISIL."

    And yes, if closing the gap between the aristocracy and those in poverty means that the aristocracy might have to make some sacrifices, tough. You can't turn a blind eye to those in need just because it's an inconvenience.
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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    I think you ought to look at yourself first
    I have. Toleration of non-Protestants, Freedom of speech, equality under the law. These come from the Establishment of the British state in 1688. Where for the first time Parliament, Monarchy, Church, Aristocracy, Media and Courts were secure and able to constrain each others power. So no one part of the state could seek to destroy the other. As had happened in the Civil war, Puritan Rule and under the Reign of James II. I actively want the power of the institutions I support to be constrained and held in check by people and institutions who think differently and oppose it.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    I have. Toleration of non-Protestants, Freedom of speech, equality under the law. These come from the Establishment of the British state in 1688. Where for the first time Parliament, Monarchy, Church, Aristocracy, Media and Courts were secure and able to constrain each others power. So no one part of the state could seek to destroy the other. As had happened in the Civil war, Puritan Rule and under the Reign of James II. I actively want the power of the institutions I support to be constrained and held in check by people and institutions who think differently and oppose it.
    Why should Protestants be elevated above those who are not Protestant?
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    (Original post by william walker)
    I have. Toleration of non-Protestants, Freedom of speech, equality under the law. These come from the Establishment of the British state in 1688. Where for the first time Parliament, Monarchy, Church, Aristocracy, Media and Courts were secure and able to constrain each others power. So no one part of the state could seek to destroy the other. As had happened in the Civil war, Puritan Rule and under the Reign of James II. I actively want the power of the institutions I support to be constrained and held in check by people and institutions who think differently and oppose it.
    Wtf are you talking about 1688 for this is 2015 and like it or not we need to progress
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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    Wtf are you talking about 1688 for this is 2015 and like it or not we need to progress
    Ignore him he's transformed this thread from intelligent debate to baseless nationalism. You can be both Azeri and British as long as they don't go against each other on the basics and vitals which from my knowledge it doesn't. Don't let anyone put you into a box.
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)
    Ignore him he's transformed this thread from intelligent debate to baseless nationalism. You can be both Azeri and British as long as they don't go against each other on the basics and vitals which from my knowledge it doesn't. Don't let anyone put you into a box.
    Thank you, I really don't know why I've wasted so much energy on this thread lol. Good luck to him, he'll need it.
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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    Wtf are you talking about 1688 for this is 2015 and like it or not we need to progress
    Why do we NEED to progress? What are we progressing towards? Are we progressing to a utopia, perhaps?

    Walker has been right this entire time and been debating two immigrants who have had their feelings hurt because you believed you could be both British and still hold allegiance to where you are from. You can't. It is quite clear from the emotional rage you muster that Bill is correct in that some immigrants actively oppose the British nation state.

    You are actually worse thsn the people who demand legal equality for all; demanding SOCIAL equality requires a massively intrusive goveenment able to dictate everything we do, purely based on the fact that a vocal majority wanted their feelings not to be hurt by others. British leftism is very different to your kind's. Lefties in Britain are still big on freedoms, because they don't want state persecution for spreading a dissident message.

    The seven institutions Bill mentions have been neutered and stripped to the bone by the government, and this has been slowly pushed for ever since the French revolution, and all the propaganda coming from that. The biggest push was after WWI because, believe it or not, a lot of our hated arisocrats fought on the frontlines in the bloodiest battle. Losing them, everything else quickly followed. Now, the Lords can be entered by non-hereditary means; the crown appears to be powerless over fears of retaliation; the media is overrun by Marxist agitators and the church of England has become liberal and gay, with no ability to offer its preference on marriage, divorce, abortion or any other morality.

    I don't think you understand what makes an institution either, because if slavery is an institution (and a British one exclusively) then so are Tesco and Sainsburys. I'll give you a hint: these establishments offer very little influence to the nation past what they can spend their money on.
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)
    Ignore him he's transformed this thread from intelligent debate to baseless nationalism. You can be both Azeri and British as long as they don't go against each other on the basics and vitals which from my knowledge it doesn't. Don't let anyone put you into a box.
    You do know what nationalism is and where it comes from? One institution becoming dominant within a nation. Like Puritanism, NAZI's, Fascism and Communism. It happens when the government destroys all the other institutions or takes them over. It doesn't come from what I want. Or anything I said. Also I put forward a view in support of institutions. No opposing anyone for anything else other than their political views. The fact is they want to destroy me and I simply want to constrain them and stop them creating a tyranny as the Puritans did.
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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    Thank you, I really don't know why I've wasted so much energy on this thread lol. Good luck to him, he'll need it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HftOT2VIglU
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    I swear William if that's another 1900s gramophone video

    Edit: I opened the link. I don't know whether to laugh or cry tbh
 
 
 
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