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My favourite pro veganism quotation! watch

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    (Original post by CloakedSpartan)
    Claim? They've even stated themselves they support euthanasia, lmao, with some backing up which is about 50% okay (e.g. if the animal is in great suffering), 50% completely ridiculous and taken apart at https://www.petakillsanimals.com/

    Bit more further reading for you my hypocrite buddy:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dougla...b_6156196.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan...b_2979220.html

    "In 2005, PETA employees killed numerous healthy dogs and cats in the back of their van, and deposited the bodies in a dumpster behind a mall. They were charged with"21 felony counts each of animal cruelty," but were convicted only of "littering."The littering conviction was later overturned. PETA has very good lawyers. "
    Right I have found on their own website that they Euthanise in cases where the animal is suffering pain. I personally don't agree with this and will no longer be supporting them. Thanks for your links.

    Btw, I am not a hypocrite - I was just ignorant of the facts. Being a hypocrite is knowing that animals die so you can eat meat but then saying you are a compassionate. A meat eating vet is a hypocrite. Someone who ignorantly supports an organisation that kills animals because they didn't know they did this doesn't make them a hypocrite. I would only be a hypocrite if after finding out about the euthanasia I carried on supporting PETA, which obviously I don't now.
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    (Original post by Odd socks)
    if all animals are equal I hope OP allows insects and small mammals to have free run of his home, killing them would be immoral


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    Yep. I hope he doesn't own a cat, enslaving an animal like that... and of course if he does...

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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    they Euthanise in cases where the animal is suffering pain. I personally don't agree with this and will no longer be supporting them.
    So it's alright for animals to suffer unnecessarily so long as we don't eat them? Got it. Brb, gonna go club a pig to death, not going to turn it into a sandwich so it's fine.
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    (Original post by James A)
    Of course it's right. Supply and demand.

    The animals get killed quickly don't they?
    May be supply and demand to you, but for me it is an animals life. An animal with a brain, a fully developed nervous system. An animal that feels pain and wants to be alive and roam the planet. We shouldn't think of them in terms of supply and demand curves. They aren't commodities. If we think of them in this way, we are moving towards self-annhiliation, because it is one step closer towards eugenics.

    Some animals get killed quickly, but some don't. It doesn't take away from the fact that they die against their will. They are murdered. This is fundamentally wrong. I personally don't believe you can die without pain. That is another whole can of worms.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Right I have found on their own website that they Euthanise in cases where the animal is suffering pain.
    Much more than that bud, they euthanise where medical reports, vets and even PETA staff themselves have stated that the animals were perfectly healthy. They have sheltered where over 90% of those who come in are killed within 24 hours.

    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    I was just ignorant of the facts.
    Sounds about right for everything you say here buddy.
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    (Original post by Odd socks)
    sorry I can't help but laugh at 'speciesist' :lol: you have no respect for atrocities faced by minorities and it's completely insulting to compare their lives and experiences to those of animals


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    People used to think that black people were worth less than white people and thus harming and killing black people was not un-ethical, we now know this to be racism. If we replace a few words in your argument it would be the same as what a slave owner would have said hundreds of years ago.

    sorry I can't help but laugh at 'RACIST' :lol: you have no respect for atrocities faced by WHITE PEOPLE and it's completely insulting to compare their lives and experiences to those of BLACK PEOPLE.

    You think that animals are inferior to humans and that it is not right to compare the killing of 200 billion animals per year to the death of 6 million humans (22300 times more beings are killed in 1 year than the total amount of people who died in the holocaust), however if you take a step back and realise that the only reason you think the lives and of anything that isn't human doesn't matter is because you don't fall under that category.
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    (Original post by CloakedSpartan)
    I'd like to focus on this. With humane killing, where the animals are stunned and rendered unconscious and have no, and with small exceptions, minimal suffering, is this equivalent to torture?

    I know that the torture of animals in some slaughterhouses is despicable and I do not support it. However, you are putting a pretty big label over an entire industry.
    Animals know they are going to die. They are not stupid. There is mental and physical torture. The ones that are 'lucky; enough not to be physically tortured are probably aware of their impending death and this is psychological torture. Ok let's assume your best case scenario: no physical or mental torture. The animal gets a quick death okay? Now let's move onto ethics. Why do we think it is acceptable to kill an animal against its' will just so we can eat it? We didn't ask for their permission. We wouldn't like it if they did it to us. Why do we do this to animals? I think it is wrong that we kill animals for food and their products. We don't need to do it and nor should we because it is cruel and inhumane, whether the said animal is tortured or not.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    No, all of us are omnivores, because we can digest and obtain nutrients from meat.

    Because it's going to die anyway. There is no way to avoid having animals die for your life, so you might as well make use of all of it.
    Thats like saying because black people are going to die anyway, we might as well profit from it by forcing them to pick corn for all of their life. What is the difference?
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    May be supply and demand to you, but for me it is an animals life. An animal with a brain, a fully developed nervous system. An animal that feels pain and wants to be alive and roam the planet. We shouldn't think of them in terms of supply and demand curves. They aren't commodities. If we think of them in this way, we are moving towards self-annhiliation, because it is one step closer towards eugenics.
    Bud, unfortunately eugenics already exist. You know. Natural selection? Selective breeding?

    Funny how also without the breeding for food a lot of these animals would not even have a chance to live.

    Unfortunately mate, animals do not have the heightened brain functions humans do, they are more instinctual. That's not to say I don't love my dog, I love my little buddy. But I recognise he isn't going to get up and start spouting English at me.

    Also, animals don't know they're going to die. They don't tie items or machinery to things like we do.
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    Thats like saying because black people are going to die anyway, we might as well profit from it by forcing them to pick corn for all of their life. What is the difference?
    No, it really isn't. The animal dies, and we eat it. That's not the same as forcing it to do something while alive.
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    (Original post by CloakedSpartan)
    Bud, unfortunately eugenics already exist. You know. Natural selection? Selective breeding?

    Funny how also without the breeding for food a lot of these animals would not even have a chance to live.

    Unfortunately mate, animals do not have the heightened brain functions humans do, they are more instinctual. That's not to say I don't love my dog, I love my little buddy. But I recognise he isn't going to get up and start spouting English at me.

    Also, animals don't know they're going to die. They don't tie items or machinery to things like we do.
    If I were an animal bred to die, I would rather not want to experience of life because my short life would be monotonous, painful and not fun. Why would I want to be alive for the few years (or months) that I am just so some savage person can kill me to eat met? That is no life!

    Conversely I can argue, if we didn't eat them we would't need to breed them! That would be a better way to look at it

    Also many animals do have heightened brain functions. They feel pain, understand their surroundings, know when they are about to die. They know when their babies are taken away from them. By your logic would you advocate the killing of people with learning difficulties or with a disability because they had an inferior brain function to a normal human being? I think not because it wouldn't be acceptable to society. In the same way killing animals of a lower brain function is morally wrong.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    If I were an animal bred to die, I would rather not want to experience of life because my short life would be monotonous, painful and not fun. Why would I want to be alive for the few years (or months) that I am just so some savage person can kill me to eat met? That is no life!

    Conversely I can argue, if we didn't eat them we would't need to breed them! That would be a better way to look at it
    Animals don't experience things like that, bud. They're instinctual. They don't have a feeling of "fun" like you do, and actually, a lot of animals are given quite a nice life with a lot of area to go over.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    No, it really isn't. The animal dies, and we eat it. That's not the same as forcing it to do something while alive.
    There is a huge difference between eating an animal once it is dead, and killing an animal so you can eat it. In today's society, if you eat meat from supermarkets then you are supporting the second point.

    I would accept inheritance from a relative if they pass. I would not murder a relative in order to get inheritance.
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    (Original post by CloakedSpartan)
    Animals don't experience things like that, bud. They're instinctual. They don't have a feeling of "fun" like you do, and actually, a lot of animals are given quite a nice life with a lot of area to go over.
    Do you believe this arguments holds for dogs and cats? I don't understand how people think like this while also being against puppy mills. If anything puppy mills are better than the meat industry because they don't kill the dogs.
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    (Original post by CloakedSpartan)
    Animals don't experience things like that, bud. They're instinctual. They don't have a feeling of "fun" like you do, and actually, a lot of animals are given quite a nice life with a lot of area to go over.
    I edited my original post above, please can you re-read it.

    Also morally speaking, I cannot and will not believe animals are inferior to us and have a less of a right to exist on this planet than we do. We are inhumane for even thinking of this. Animals and humans are equals. We are intelligent and we have the choice whether to eat or not. We don't need to eat meat to survive as Vegans have demonstrated, so why do we do it? Because we are selfish and think our lives matter more than animal life. This is wrong. Why should a cow be worth less than a man or woman? Why should their life or your dog's life be seen as indispensable? That is just so wrong . It's just like how the white people treated black people when slavery was going on. It is wrong to enslave another race, as it is to enslave another species. I only hope you go away and think about the ethics of eating meat and treating animals the way they are.
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    Bacon tho
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    (Original post by LavenderBlueSky88)
    Bacon tho
    Never tried it in my life. Is it tasty as chips and samosas? :teehee: :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Never tried it in my life. Is it tasty as chips and samosas? :teehee: :rolleyes:
    You might wanna specify what type of samosa
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    There is a huge difference between eating an animal once it is dead, and killing an animal so you can eat it. In today's society, if you eat meat from supermarkets then you are supporting the second point.

    I would accept inheritance from a relative if they pass. I would not murder a relative in order to get inheritance.
    Not really, the difference is scavenging vs hunting and in terms of our species history it's a very minor and meaningless distinction.

    But, assuming you do the whole vegan stuff for animal welfare rather than as a front for an eating disorder (very common throughout vegans and vegetarians); the simple facts of it are that animals have to die for us to survive every single day: nature is red in tooth and claw.

    So, let's say we all swear off meat tomorrow - ignoring the massive decimation of land now agricultural animals are no longer killed "early", what happens to domesticated dogs, cats, reptiles and other meat-eating pets now we've stopped production?

    What impact will human foraging and the mass conversion of farmland have on local ecosystems? How many environments, and as a result animals, are you going to destroy in the process?

    Given you're using a computer, you've bought into the industrial age, so how many animals have been killed for you to be able to make these posts, both in terms of environments destroyed for the mining of precious metals for the circuits, those cut down to provide power to service it, the rivers polluted by the effluent from the manufacturing process?

    Presumably you're also not homeless, so how many animals were dehomed and ultimately destroyed to clear the plot of land to build on, along with the ones who suffered the same fate to quench the need for lumber and clay to then build the house?

    But, beyond all that - how exactly does veganism do anything but just allow you to facilitate the maltreatment without having the blood on your hands? We're omnivorous by nature, we'll never stop eating meat, so surely the best move is to instead push for the humane methods of killing (pre-stunning etc.) to be more prevalent, for the poor living conditions to be addressed? Buy local, from farmers rather than commercial abattoirs, buy free-range, but just not participating is essentially an example of the idea of all that evil needs is for good men to do nothing - you're not making a change, you're in essence supporting the industries continuation while just washing your hands of the consequences.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not really, the difference is scavenging vs hunting and in terms of our species history it's a very minor and meaningless distinction.

    But, assuming you do the whole vegan stuff for animal welfare rather than as a front for an eating disorder (very common throughout vegans and vegetarians); the simple facts of it are that animals have to die for us to survive every single day: nature is red in tooth and claw.

    So, let's say we all swear off meat tomorrow - ignoring the massive decimation of land now agricultural animals are no longer killed "early", what happens to domesticated dogs, cats, reptiles and other meat-eating pets now we've stopped production?

    What impact will human foraging and the mass conversion of farmland have on local ecosystems? How many environments, and as a result animals, are you going to destroy in the process?

    Given you're using a computer, you've bought into the industrial age, so how many animals have been killed for you to be able to make these posts, both in terms of environments destroyed for the mining of precious metals for the circuits, those cut down to provide power to service it, the rivers polluted by the effluent from the manufacturing process?

    Presumably you're also not homeless, so how many animals were dehomed and ultimately destroyed to clear the plot of land to build on, along with the ones who suffered the same fate to quench the need for lumber and clay to then build the house?

    But, beyond all that - how exactly does veganism do anything but just allow you to facilitate the maltreatment without having the blood on your hands? We're omnivorous by nature, we'll never stop eating meat, so surely the best move is to instead push for the humane methods of killing (pre-stunning etc.) to be more prevalent, for the poor living conditions to be addressed? Buy local, from farmers rather than commercial abattoirs, buy free-range, but just not participating is essentially an example of the idea of all that evil needs is for good men to do nothing - you're not making a change, you're in essence supporting the industries continuation while just washing your hands of the consequences.
    The ignorance of your post astounds me :lolwut:

    If we gave up eating animals there less land would be required to feed the same number of people because we wouldn't be using land to raise animals and we wouldn't have more land to grow grains which we feed to animals. So once these animals that are bred to die eventually die a natural life we would get back the land they were grazing on and the land which we used to grow crops to feed them. That is a lot of land :rolleyes:

    Furthermore veganism isn't an eating disorder and eating disorders are not common amongst vegans. Prove that outlandish claim please. Vegans become vegans for ethical reasons, not due to disorders.

    If you don't want to give up meat, then so beat it, but don't try and kid yourself that killing animals is humane and right. Only a fool believes that.
 
 
 
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