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Russian plane crash - evidence pointing to bomb or missile - 224 dead watch

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Disturbing. Security at that airport did not seem that soft. I imagine if it is a bomb airports all over the world are going to go mad.
    You been Sharm el-Sheikh International Airport? I did a change there earlier this year for a conneting flight, and the security was pretty lax. They weren't patting people down properly when they buzzed, the officer attending my luggage wasn't looking at the xray screen when it went through.

    I can see it being quite easy to smuggle an IED onto the plane.

    I know it is the mail and they aren't really known for objectivity and impartiality, but this accurately describes me experience.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ety-Sharm.html
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I absolutely agree

    Again i agree but it will never come about if people cannot have open and honest discussions. You only need to look at the overwhelming hate and death threats ex muslims, muslim reofrmers and liberal progressive muslims receive from the majority of muslims including their own families and thats over here in first world countries like the UK
    Those who reformed Christianity equally received much hatred too. But despite all these death threats, most of them haven't been acted upon, and even if they might kill these people, they cannot kill their ideas.

    Plus I would say things are starting to change. Here for example is a youtube video of a TV debate from earlier this year that was on prime time TV in Indonesia. It was a live TV debate that discussed the topic of LGBT rights. Unfortunately it doesn't have subtitles so you wont be able to understand it, but the point is that we are now seeing debates such as these taking place in what here is essentially a largely Muslim nation and more progressive views are starting to get heard. And I could give you plenty more example from just Indonesia alone.

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    Twitter says Isis have released an audio message claiming responsibility. Gut says that are the kind of group to claim anything if there is a civilian casualty.
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    Going on topic then.

    In regard to the plane crash, if this turns out to be a bomb, some serious **** is about to kick off. Putin will respond with force, right into ISIS's trap. I've been away for the past few years, and I've travelled around some pretty hot areas doing some **** that won't mention for legalities, some of those places in which the Russian military is operating (although of course they are volunteers on holiday with their tanks) - they will **** you up if you get into a firefight with them or piss them off. Their military are brutal people.

    There is going to be a major offensive soon in Syria, because phase 1 of the Russian airstrikes is nearly over and they've took out most major rebel/ ISIS fortified static positions/ equipment. Phase 2 (combined hybrid warfare with Russian airstrikes) is always going to be messy, but if this does turns out to be a terror attack, expect Russian forces (at the very least Spetznaz) to be involved. Russian "volunteer" tank crews are already serving in Assad's Army, I expect a few more of theses "volunteers" will turn up with their suitcases and rifles outside Damascus.

    This means more civilians dead, the Arab nations getting pissed off along with Turkey, and funding for the rebels going through the roof. Exactly what ISIS/ rebels need at the critical moment (it's been losing a lot of ground since June).

    ISIS have ran out of journalists to behead and are unlikely to capture anymore, and the chances of capturing a pilot by shooting down a jet and then burning him in a cage are very slim. This could be the next propaganda coup, and are unwilling to share their methods so they can do it again.
    Yes, although there's still no definite evidence, things don't look good for Russia or Syria. I think the main outcome is going to be an awful lot more civilian death and destruction and an awful lot more refugees.

    I guess this is what ISIS want and despite their savagery, one has to admire their single minded sense of purpose and getting what they want. However, a great many more of them are going to die soon in rather nasty ways.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yes, although there's still no definite evidence, things don't look good for Russia or Syria. I think the main outcome is going to be an awful lot more civilian death and destruction and an awful lot more refugees.

    I guess this is what ISIS want and despite their savagery, one has to admire their single minded sense of purpose and getting what they want. However, a great many more of them are going to die soon in rather nasty ways.
    If this was a bomb and Putin hits ISIS hard as a response (along with anybody else that is fighting Assad), then he has just become the Islamists biggest recruitment sergeant. Civilian deaths are going to rise exponentially, refugees in Europe are going to start kicking off when they realise that their families are getting bombed, Islamophobia will rise as a response, which is precisely what ISIS wants - propaganda victory, Putin kills babies, Muslims aren't welcome in Europe etc etc.

    ISIS are clever, just like how the Taliban were clever when we were fighting them in Afghanistan. I respect them, I hate them but they clearly aren't your average Muppets with flip flops and AK-47's. In Afghanistan the Taliban would purposefully kill some children/ blow up a school in front of a FOB just to provoke an emotional reaction from us and try to get us to act rashly. It seems that ISIS is copying the same tactic, but aiming it at Russia on a much larger scale.

    The best thing that Britain can do right now is share any intelligence we have with the Egyptians and Russians, pull out completely from Syria and focus only on the Iraqi side of things. Let the Russians and Iranians do their thing, even if Assad is an asswipe.
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    You been Sharm el-Sheikh International Airport? I did a change there earlier this year for a conneting flight, and the security was pretty lax. They weren't patting people down properly when they buzzed, the officer attending my luggage wasn't looking at the xray screen when it went through.

    I can see it being quite easy to smuggle an IED onto the plane.

    I know it is the mail and they aren't really known for objectivity and impartiality, but this accurately describes me experience.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ety-Sharm.html
    Few years back I went though 4 or 5 times on different occasions. Certainly was not that rigorous but it did not seem a soft target either. But then the standards in these countries seems to change on a daily basis

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Few years back I went though 4 or 5 times on different occasions. Certainly was not that rigorous but it did not seem a soft target either. But then the standards in these countries seems to change on a daily basis

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    Yeah, I can agree on that.
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34742273

    Looks like it was a bomb in the hold. I still can't help but wonder about motive. I'd of thought a Western airline would have been a better target all things considered. Still it could have just been a target of opportunity as much as anything.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yes, although there's still no definite evidence, things don't look good for Russia or Syria. I think the main outcome is going to be an awful lot more civilian death and destruction and an awful lot more refugees.

    I guess this is what ISIS want and despite their savagery, one has to admire their single minded sense of purpose and getting what they want. However, a great many more of them are going to die soon in rather nasty ways.
    there is nothing whatsoever to admire about these ****heads
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34742273

    Looks like it was a bomb in the hold. I still can't help but wonder about motive. I'd of thought a Western airline would have been a better target all things considered. Still it could have just been a target of opportunity as much as anything.
    Although it's still all intelligence based (apparently) rather than the results of aircrash investigation. Just a small voice wondering if this isn't all a US intelligence game being played against Putin. I hope not.

    Assuming it is all true, the motives are hard to fathom. At the least, one would assume that Russia will now feel impelled to absolutely clobber them, assuming Putin accepts that it was a bomb (the Russians haven't yet) and the evidence is clear. From an ISIS point of view, that would appear insane. Yes, arguably they are nuts, but they've also shown considerable cunning and grasp of strategy up to now.

    Another possibility is that they simply wanted to prove they could do this. a show of strength to win new recruits and demonstrate to their supporters and troops, angered by Russian intervention, that nobody is safe from them. If that's what this was, they are going to pay quite a price for it.

    Of course, they might just also get away with it pretty much unscathed if the Russians continue to insist that it wasn't a bomb. That really would be a strange outcome if the bomb evidence is uncontroversial.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    there is nothing whatsoever to admire about these ****heads
    Agreed. It's repulsive some people "admire" them.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Although it's still all intelligence based (apparently) rather than the results of aircrash investigation. Just a small voice wondering if this isn't all a US intelligence game being played against Putin. I hope not.

    Assuming it is all true, the motives are hard to fathom. At the least, one would assume that Russia will now feel impelled to absolutely clobber them, assuming Putin accepts that it was a bomb (the Russians haven't yet) and the evidence is clear. From an ISIS point of view, that would appear insane. Yes, arguably they are nuts, but they've also shown considerable cunning and grasp of strategy up to now.

    Another possibility is that they simply wanted to prove they could do this. a show of strength to win new recruits and demonstrate to their supporters and troops, angered by Russian intervention, that nobody is safe from them. If that's what this was, they are going to pay quite a price for it.

    Of course, they might just also get away with it pretty much unscathed if the Russians continue to insist that it wasn't a bomb. That really would be a strange outcome if the bomb evidence is uncontroversial.
    Can't see that being the case. Bombs on planes are usually easy to prove. Through the wreckage pattern, as well as holes in the fuselage and bomb residue. It'd be mad to try and fake all that, though no doubt the conspiracy theories will be churned out that this was a CIA strike on Russia.

    Arguably 9/11 was insane and would lead to its chief architects death years later. I think you've got it in your latter point. This is a show of strength and could boost Isis in places like chechnya showing Isis as real opponents the of the Russian state. If it was Isis and that is part of the motive some of the worst fears of the Russian security establishment may be about to come true.





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    (Original post by The Blue Axolotl)
    Agreed. It's repulsive some people "admire" them.
    Admiring may be a word open to misinterpretation, but I was drawing attention to the flair for action and dynamism they show as an organisation. They are serious enemies.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Admiring may be a word open to misinterpretation, but I was drawing attention to the flair for action and dynamism they show as an organisation. They are serious enemies.
    Admire --
    1. regard with respect or warm approval."I admire your courage"synonyms:applaud, praise, express admiration for, commend, approve of, express approval for, favour, look on with favour, think highly of, appreciate; Morerespect, rate highly, hold in high regard, hold in high esteem, look up to, acclaim; compliment, speak highly of, put on a pedestal "she was admired for her cheerful efficiency"worship, adore, love, cherish, dote on, be enamoured of, be infatuated with, be taken with, be attracted to, find attractive; idolize, lionize; informalcarry a torch for, be mad about, be crazy about, be potty about, be wild about, have a crush on, have a thing about, have a pash on, have the hots for, be soft on, take a shine to; informalfancy "Simon had admired her from afar for a long time"antonyms:disapprove of, loathe
      • look at (something impressive or attractive) with pleasure."we were just admiring your garden"


    Whatever.
 
 
 
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