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So who is taking Chelsea's top 4 spot? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Top four?
    Spurs
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    Liverpool
    30.00%
    Leicester
    18.33%
    West Ham
    2.50%
    Other
    1.67%
    Chelsea will still make it
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    (Original post by FFTypoCorrector)
    That's generally part of how to measure a footballer though. Kane plays by himself up front in a team that presses the opposition for 90, and regularly has the highest distance covered for Spurs, yet is able to play over 50 games in his first full season. It certainly gives him an edge over Benteke and Sturridge (fwiw, I'd have him better than Tekkers, but below Sturridge).
    Fitness wise yes but not ability wise which is in question here.

    For me Kane needs to prove he is a 15-20 goal striker again this season then I'll have him better than Benteke, its just a matter of seeing it and I do think he is capable and has the potential but he needs to get it done.
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    (Original post by FFTypoCorrector)
    That's generally part of how to measure a footballer though. Kane plays by himself up front in a team that presses the opposition for 90, and regularly has the highest distance covered for Spurs, yet is able to play over 50 games in his first full season. It certainly gives him an edge over Benteke and Sturridge (fwiw, I'd have him better than Tekkers, but below Sturridge).
    You see I can understand that, it is a fair view, it's not exactly Kane's fault that he can play 50 games a season, and Sturridge has done things in big games to credit him, so I can understand you rating him above Kane, I just honestly think at 21, to have scored against Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and Southampton, all within 12 months of becoming a first team regular, is outstanding, and I think few strikers in PL history, can say they have scored against the top 6/7 teams in their 12 months as a first team striker.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    A) I'm not a Liverpool fan, not even close. Have I not made it clear enough throughout this thread and indeed this subforum that I support Leicester City?

    B) Benteke has scored in the Europa league while with Genk. Amazingly, sides outside the UK exist...

    C) Sturridge has been a consistent goalscorer wherever he's gone, it's only injuries that have stopped him from having a series of good seasons rather than a good 4 months then 2 months out, rinse and repeat...

    D) where has Bony come from? The simple question is, is kane better than benteke or sturridge? Answer: no. Don't get me wrong, he could be in the future but in the here and now he's just a likely one season wonder.


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    Lmao Sturridge has had 1 season out of 8/9 in the PL where he has scored more than 20 goals in all competitions, and only 2 where he has scored above 10 goals, you can talk about his injuries all you want, but that's not a proven scorer, that's someone who can score on his day.. I'd actually argue that Peter crouch has a better goal scoring record, and he consistently averages more goal than Sturridge in a season.. So if Kane is a 1 season wonder with 31 goals out of a possible 1 season to prove himself in the PL, what's Sturridge with 8/9 seasons to prove himself in the PL, only once scoring above 20 goals in all comps, after that his best goal tally being 13 in all comps, and Sturridge being injured is no excuse, every athlete across the world, should be able to manage their own body, and it is fair to criticise a player for being injury prone. At the end of the day, if someone's rarely ever fit for more than a few games a season, how good a player can they be
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    (Original post by samir12)
    Benteke didn't score because he wasn't even in the squad for those games....
    That's funny, because he has actually started in the Europa league this season, didn't do anything mind..
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    (Original post by david_94)
    You see I can understand that, it is a fair view, it's not exactly Kane's fault that he can play 50 games a season, and Sturridge has done things in big games to credit him, so I can understand you rating him above Kane, I just honestly think at 21, to have scored against Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and Southampton, all within 12 months of becoming a first team regular, is outstanding, and I think few strikers in PL history, can say they have scored against the top 6/7 teams in their 12 months as a first team striker.
    Yeah I agree with your arguments tbh. If Kane gets 15+ in the league this year he's above both for me (I'd still say Sturridge's skill set is better, but as you said athletes have to manage their bodies). Kane is severely underrated by people on here anyway, his all round play is excellent and he offers a hell of a lot even when he's not scoring. People also jump on his back but he played 50+ games and the end of the last year, I believe he went to the u21 championships which disrupted his pre season and could've caused him to start the seasons fatigued.
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    (Original post by david_94)
    That's funny, because he has actually started in the Europa league this season, didn't do anything mind..
    He started one game and that was his first start since his injury.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Can't agree with that, Kane's all round game is lacking too much, he's not overly strong or quick, not got the greatest of touches. He's got a good predatory instinct but we saw at the start of this season that once sides get wise to that he struggles, much like Kevin Phillips I suspect he'll potter around 10-13 for a few seasons and drift down the league.


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    Are you mad, Kane isn't strong? How many times has he held off players, continued to dribble with the ball, and scored... He's not slow either, he's no giroud, and only has slightly less pace than Benteke in terms of running speed, but his acceleration actually is quite fast, as are his reactions.. He didn't score in a few games for us, and part of that struggle to score was because Eriksen was injured in the beginning of the season, and our side lacked creativity. You're just negative towards Kane, because he didn't have the best of times at Leicester, there's nothing wrong with a player scoring 31 goals in his debut PL season at age 21, and there's nothing wrong with scoring 7 goals by November in his second, which is more than Benteke has scored, and it also puts him level in league goals scored with Aguero, Sanchez, Pelle, and Giroud.. '1 season wonder' loll
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    (Original post by samir12)
    He started one game and that was his first start since his injury.
    And? You just said he hadn't played in Europa league this season, and now you are making excuses, in a game where he actually spurned a few chances but did little else of notice in the game. If Europa league, and the teams in it are that bad, he would have scored? No? People are so quick to insult the quality of the Europa league, without justification. Rubin Kazan aren't exactly a top team, and Benteke couldn't score against them, and plenty of teams in the Europa league, has been in the CL in recent years, such as Tottenham, Liverpool and Beskitas so..
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    (Original post by FFTypoCorrector)
    Yeah I agree with your arguments tbh. If Kane gets 15+ in the league this year he's above both for me (I'd still say Sturridge's skill set is better, but as you said athletes have to manage their bodies). Kane is severely underrated by people on here anyway, his all round play is excellent and he offers a hell of a lot even when he's not scoring. People also jump on his back but he played 50+ games and the end of the last year, I believe he went to the u21 championships which disrupted his pre season and could've caused him to start the seasons fatigued.
    Exactly, and we also played in the States, and played against Madrid literally 2 days before the United game, which is the only PL game we have lost this season through an own goal. And the thing is, he brings so much more to the game than simply goals, his work rate is insane, lol you are right. He gets labelled a one season wonder, when he's only had one season to prove himself, meanwhile people on here only a few months ago, were saying that Hazard was as good as Ronaldo, when he isn't even as good as Sanchez imo. And I'm a Tottenham fan lmao
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    (Original post by david_94)
    And? You just said he hadn't played in Europa league this season, and now you are making excuses, in a game where he actually spurned a few chances but did little else of notice in the game. If Europa league, and the teams in it are that bad, he would have scored? No? People are so quick to insult the quality of the Europa league, without justification. Rubin Kazan aren't exactly a top team, and Benteke couldn't score against them, and plenty of teams in the Europa league, has been in the CL in recent years, such as Tottenham, Liverpool and Beskitas so..
    No you were the one that said he couldn't score against teams like FC Sion and Bordeux when he didn't even play in those games, it's a little unfair to criticise him for not scoring in games he hasn't played in.

    Making excuses? So it's okay for you to make excuses for Kane not scoring by saying Eriksen got injured?
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    (Original post by samir12)
    No you were the one that said he couldn't score against teams like FC Sion and Bordeux when he didn't even play in those games, it's a little unfair to criticise him for not scoring in games he hasn't played in.

    Making excuses? So it's okay for you to make excuses for Kane not scoring by saying Eriksen got injured?
    I didn't criticise him for that, I was asking a genuine question, which related to the person above criticising the standard of the Europa league. The point remains that he started against a Europa league team, and didn't score, so either Benteke's not that good a striker, or Europa league isn't that easy to score in, because there are plenty of quality teams in there, many better than plenty of teams in the PL in-fact.

    Secondly, I was not making excuses, Kane literally didn't score in a few games, and Eriksen is one of the most creative players in the league, any team would miss him, and our team lacked creativity without him, that's not an opinion that is a fact, the same thing a number of pundits picked up on when they have been analysing our games without Eriksen, and in the same way that if Ozil got injured Arsenal would miss him, If Coutinho got injured Liverpool would miss him, these are creative players, that significantly effect how many chances teams create, which is very likely to affect how well a striker performs. I've never said Kane would have scored more if Eriksen was in the team, but Eriksen has returned from injury, and after only a game or two, Kane found his feet and continued his scoring form..
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    This random david tool getting absolutely rekt.
    Samir has him by the balls on every post
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    (Original post by david_94)
    I didn't criticise him for that, I was asking a genuine question, which related to the person above criticising the standard of the Europa league. The point remains that he started against a Europa league team, and didn't score, so either Benteke's not that good a striker, or Europa league isn't that easy to score in, because there are plenty of quality teams in there, many better than plenty of teams in the PL in-fact.
    While I do see a lot of sense in some of what you're writing regarding Kane, I do have to question this logic.

    Ronaldo may not score against somebody like Elche, and Messi has failed at times in the past to score against the likes of ****ing Malmo. That doesn't mean they aren't great goalscorers, and it doesn't mean the teams mentioned (or competitions) aren't easy to score against, because we've seen both of the aforementioned players' supreme goalscoring records in La Liga/CL.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    While I do see a lot of sense in some of what you're writing regarding Kane, I do have to question this logic.

    Ronaldo may not score against somebody like Elche, and Messi has failed at times in the past to score against the likes of ****ing Malmo. That doesn't mean they aren't great goalscorers, and it doesn't mean the teams mentioned (or competitions) aren't easy to score against, because we've seen both of the aforementioned players' supreme goalscoring records in La Liga/CL.
    I would say if you read the whole conversation, in which he insulted the conversation, you would understand what I was saying. I wasn't saying that I thought that about Benteke, I was questioning what his logic, implied about Benteke, I haven't once questioned the quality of the Europa league, atleast not without sarcasm, but I understand your point. How Kane can be critcised by anyone for scoring in the Europa League is beyond me, especially considering if Countinho did everyone would be talking about how great a strike it was, and when Lamela scores a rabona, everyone criticises it because it's against a Europa League team, as if that couldn't have happened against a Pl side, or in the FA Cup. I wouldn't mind, but if most people watched the Europa League, they'd realise it's actually much harder to win than the FA Cup for instance, and so it's not an easy competition
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    (Original post by david_94)
    I would say if you read the whole conversation, in which he insulted the conversation, you would understand what I was saying. I wasn't saying that I thought that about Benteke, I was questioning what his logic, implied about Benteke, I haven't once questioned the quality of the Europa league, atleast not without sarcasm, but I understand your point. How Kane can be critcised by anyone for scoring in the Europa League is beyond me, especially considering if Countinho did everyone would be talking about how great a strike it was, and when Lamela scores a rabona, everyone criticises it because it's against a Europa League team, as if that couldn't have happened against a Pl side, or in the FA Cup. I wouldn't mind, but if most people watched the Europa League, they'd realise it's actually much harder to win than the FA Cup for instance, and so it's not an easy competition
    The EL is just criticised by the English, and it's a farcical outlook to have.

    Coaches like Klopp place an emphasis on it - we've seen that in his rhetoric since he came into Anfield - and Tuchel has been playing full-strength first teams for Dortmund since they began the tournament way back in July.

    The thing the EL needs to do is revert to a UEFA Cup format, when it was prestigious and a prized tournament. This watered down version is too baggy and grand for the public to truly love in this country.

    We've seen how sides winning it can go onto greatness, though. Outfits like Sevilla are impressive (they played City off the park at the Etihad despite losing and were supreme against Real this weekend) and we've seen Valencia, Porto and Chelsea win the contest in recent years.
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    EL and CL should be on alternate weeks. Problem solved.

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    (Original post by sr90)
    EL and CL should be on alternate weeks. Problem solved.

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    Or just revert the EL to a straight knock-out competition with less teams, and bring in a Cup Winners Cup equivalent underneath that.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    This random david tool getting absolutely rekt.
    Samir has him by the balls on every post
    Brilliant observation, I'm glad you read the whole conversation, and unlike Samir, didn't comment on what I said, without reading what it was in response to and understanding the context. Perhaps I should be the first person to thumbs up your comment, but wait, you seem to have a hard time understanding sarcasm, better not.
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    (Original post by david_94)
    Are you mad, Kane isn't strong? How many times has he held off players, continued to dribble with the ball, and scored... He's not slow either, he's no giroud, and only has slightly less pace than Benteke in terms of running speed, but his acceleration actually is quite fast, as are his reactions.. He didn't score in a few games for us, and part of that struggle to score was because Eriksen was injured in the beginning of the season, and our side lacked creativity. You're just negative towards Kane, because he didn't have the best of times at Leicester, there's nothing wrong with a player scoring 31 goals in his debut PL season at age 21, and there's nothing wrong with scoring 7 goals by November in his second, which is more than Benteke has scored, and it also puts him level in league goals scored with Aguero, Sanchez, Pelle, and Giroud.. '1 season wonder' loll
    Not massively so, he's fairly easily knocked off the ball. Not quite the wimpy preening **** we had on loan, but still less than stocky even when wringing wet. He's also not particularly fast, there's no real turn of pace, hence him failing in more takeons than he's successful with. Reactions I'll give, he's got a good positional awareness, but his physical qualities are non-existent. Read where the ball is going as a defender and more often than not you'll beat him.

    In which case we've got to say he's entirely reliant on Eriksen, and isn't that good himself.

    Admittedly I do absolutely loathe the guy, but if you can find a leicester fan that doesn't, I'll show you someone who's only started following us since we got back into the premiership. It's not even that he was hopelessly inept, we've had plenty of that, it's that he didn't even break sweat, such was his arrogance (any teenager treating the championship as below him doesn't deserve a career as a footballer) - never once challenged for a 50/50, looked lost on the pitch and more interested in styling his hair than playing football (as if his hair was worth anything), but beyond that he's really not that good. Had a great 4 months last season, had a decent month just gone (although the boruc blunders make it look far better than it is), but given the choice between him, sturridge and benteke? He's got to be 3rd choice.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not massively so, he's fairly easily knocked off the ball.
    Kane averages 1.8 bad touches a game throughout his career, whilst Benteke's is up at 2.3. Benteke is also dispossessed more a game (2.2 to 2.1). Note that these stats track Kane's whole career, but only go as far back for Benteke as him joining Villa (so don't include his breaking into Genk's first team and his youth, where stats are bound to be lower). Benteke is stronger of course, and obviously less easy to knock off the ball but if, by metrics, you're saying Kane is easily dispossessed, then so is Tekkers.

    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not massively so, he's fairly easily knocked off the ball. Not quite the wimpy preening **** we had on loan, but still less than stocky even when wringing wet. He's also not particularly fast, there's no real turn of pace, hence him failing in more takeons than he's successful with. Reactions I'll give, he's got a good positional awareness, but his physical qualities are non-existent. Read where the ball is going as a defender and more often than not you'll beat him.
    Agree he's not fast, but as you've alluded to his awareness allows to him to overcome that, and clearly it's not as simple as that to stop him. It's not like Benteke is fast either anyway.

    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not massively so, he's fairly easily knocked off the ball. In which case we've got to say he's entirely reliant on Eriksen, and isn't that good himself.
    Shock horror, a strikers influence diminishes when the number 10 is injured. It's more notable in a Spurs team that relies heavily on Eriksen themselves with a double pivot of Dier, who's role is to break up play, and Alli, who's a ball carrier and joins attacks at the end of the play rather than instigates it. They also like playing inverted wingers who come inside a lot and can congest the central areas, and defences just sit deeper, with no crosses coming in he's clearly not gonna get chances.

    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not massively so, he's fairly easily knocked off the ball. Admittedly I do absolutely loathe the guy, but if you can find a leicester fan that doesn't, I'll show you someone who's only started following us since we got back into the premiership. It's not even that he was hopelessly inept, we've had plenty of that, it's that he didn't even break sweat, such was his arrogance (any teenager treating the championship as below him doesn't deserve a career as a footballer) - never once challenged for a 50/50, looked lost on the pitch and more interested in styling his hair than playing football (as if his hair was worth anything), but beyond that he's really not that good.

    Had a great 4 months last season, had a decent month just gone (although the boruc blunders make it look far better than it is), but given the choice between him, sturridge and benteke? He's got to be 3rd choice.
    Fair enough on the Leicester bit, you'd no better than me but the last bit is just lol-worthy. His figures last season were, in likelihood, unsustainable but the stats point to him comfortably being a 1 in 2 man (at least). He shoots 3.5 times a game, his conversion rate is 25% or thereabouts and he takes penalties, so you'd be crazy to back against him getting under 15 in the league, which is a very decent return (Rooney's done it 4 times for us, and he's gonna be our record goalscorer). Shock horror, a 21 year old in his breakthrough season shows inconsistency in his form, it's a trait of every single player of his age.

    The fact is you're blinded by bias. There's a debate to be had between Benteke and Kane, but Harry's shown a far higher ceiling than Christian, he's done it for a top team (insert all Spurs related jokes) and he's 3 years younger, yet you're somehow dismissing him based on a loan spell he had with you as a teenager :rolleyes: . I'd agree with you that Sturridge is probably a better player, but as David said part of being a footballer is keeping yourself fit and that's something that comes into consideration when you're comparing players.
 
 
 
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