All religion needs to be banned. Watch

Coollad1999
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#121
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#121
Typical liberal way of thinking. Ban all religions but fails to take into account that there is only one religion that is really to blame.
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mikeoxlong000
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#122
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#122
(Original post by RayApparently)
Atheism wasn't the motivation for killing them though. Maintaining autocracy was.
Actually it was to force rapid industrialisation of Russia, with the majority of their population at the time being in agriculture - thus had to be converted or exterminated. Also 'The League of Militant Atheists' was set up in Stalin's Russia, who would terrorise and kill any Russian who openly practised religion (a lot of people) no doubt adding to the total 15 mil dead
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Plantagenet Crown
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#123
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#123
(Original post by nightwing51214)
Terrorism has no religion. Period.
But loads of terrorists do kill in the name of religion though.
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Macy1998
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#124
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#124
I so agree with you OP.

Anyone who isn't as agnostic as you are should be thrown in prison or fined for believing in something you don't!

That's the answer to all our problems, guys.

Even though there are crimes that don't have to do with religion such as school shootings, rape, murder, and theft... I mean religion is the cause of everything.

(Sarcasm)
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RayApparently
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#125
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#125
(Original post by mikeoxlong000)
Actually it was to force rapid industrialisation of Russia, with the majority of their population at the time being in agriculture - thus had to be converted or exterminated. Also 'The League of Militant Atheists' was set up in Stalin's Russia, who would terrorise and kill any Russian who openly practised religion (a lot of people) no doubt adding to the total 15 mil dead
What do you mean 'actually'. The 15 million figure is people executed or worked to death in prison camps (i.e. criminals and political prisoners - people who threatened the autocracy). If you want to force industrialisation you don't actively murder your workforce. Don't forget that Stalin still needed the bloated agricultural sector, he just collectivised it. And whilst the League were savages (you exaggerate when you say they killed any Russian openly practising religion) and their victims are included in the figure (the political threat posed by the Church made its adherents political enemies) in a world without religion they would not have been killed (obviously). So that's an incredibly strange point to make. Similarly in a pluralist Russia they wouldn't have been killed.
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mikeoxlong000
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#126
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#126
(Original post by RayApparently)
What do you mean 'actually'. The 15 million figure is people executed or worked to death in prison camps (i.e. criminals and political prisoners - people who threatened the autocracy). If you want to force industrialisation you don't actively murder your workforce. Don't forget that Stalin still needed the bloated agricultural sector, he just collectivised it. And whilst the League were savages (you exaggerate when you say they killed any Russian openly practising religion) and their victims are included in the figure (the political threat posed by the Church made its adherents political enemies) in a world without religion they would not have been killed (obviously). So that's an incredibly strange point to make. Similarly in a pluralist Russia they wouldn't have been killed.
nope, that 15 million figure is solely related to Stalin's push for collectivisation and industrialisation. No doubt more were killed in prison/work camps. Those he killed were the farmers that didn't want their land taken, or who didn't want to go and work in factories, the NKVD death squads saw to that. and that an equally strange counter point. Thats like saying 'if jews didn't exist, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened' ? and of course, i'm just alluding to the point that atheism can drive murder and destruction just like religion can. I think the main point is though that neither religion nor atheism actually cause murder/destruction etc. Humans do. And anything can be latched onto by the murderers to justify the atrocious acts they have committed. Whether it be religion/atheism/politics etc...
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RayApparently
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#127
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#127
(Original post by mikeoxlong000)
nope, that 15 million figure is solely related to Stalin's push for collectivisation and industrialisation. No doubt more were killed in prison/work camps. Those he killed were the farmers that didn't want their land taken, or who didn't want to go and work in factories, the NKVD death squads saw to that. and that an equally strange counter point. Thats like saying 'if jews didn't exist, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened' ? and of course, i'm just alluding to the point that atheism can drive murder and destruction just like religion can. I think the main point is though that neither religion nor atheism actually cause murder/destruction etc. Humans do. And anything can be latched onto by the murderers to justify the atrocious acts they have committed. Whether it be religion/atheism/politics etc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph...ber_of_victims
People who refused to work were obviously treated as criminals and those who actively resisted redistribution obviously threatened the autocracy - what's your point? Its unrelated to the topic of religion.

It is like saying that. You need to exist to be killed. And besides, the Nazis hated the Jewish race rather than the Jewish religion. Of course the race was widely hated and easily scapegoated due to the inane concept of 'deicide'.

Its not the same. There is no 'atheist teaching'. It can't 'drive' things the way religion does. There is nothing inherent in atheism that relates to any evil actions. Religion gives people motivations and justifications for doing terrible things. And the Soviets were violent reactionaries against this.

Murderers don't (tend to) kill people for no reason. Politics should not be grouped with atheism and religion. In fact atheism shouldn't be grouped with religion (same way 'off' isn't grouped with TV channels).
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#Whitehouse
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#128
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#128
(Original post by RayApparently)
What do you mean 'actually'. The 15 million figure is people executed or worked to death in prison camps (i.e. criminals and political prisoners - people who threatened the autocracy). If you want to force industrialisation you don't actively murder your workforce. Don't forget that Stalin still needed the bloated agricultural sector, he just collectivised it. And whilst the League were savages (you exaggerate when you say they killed any Russian openly practising religion) and their victims are included in the figure (the political threat posed by the Church made its adherents political enemies) in a world without religion they would not have been killed (obviously). So that's an incredibly strange point to make. Similarly in a pluralist Russia they wouldn't have been killed.
The 15 million figure is wrong . Stalin killed around 40 million in total not to shabby
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-peop...n-kill-1111789
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RayApparently
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#129
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#129
(Original post by #Whitehouse)
The 15 million figure is wrong . Stalin killed around 40 million in total not to shabby
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-peop...n-kill-1111789
Its not 'wrong', I didn't mean it as a total (nor did I originally bring it up). Also the figure in that article includes troops who died in WW2 - I don't see why we would include these. The article also admits that the figure is an estimate, and cites several other different estimates.
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