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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    1) that verse isn't seeming to suggest that women should cover their hair or heads though? I don't know what you're talking about. "khimar"? who's talking about khimar? if the arabic word for something was as such, why wasn't it translated in that verse correctly?
    2) da **** is "aisha (ra)"? how are they an islamic authority? are they another prophet, like moe?
    The 'veil' in the translation is a head cover. So the verse is speaking to women who had a head cover on in the first place, but now they are being asked to draw it onto their chests.

    You don't know Arabic that's why it's hard to explain.
    Because veil comes under head cover. If you were Arabic speaking you would know that, but because you aren't, you have to look into its interpretation and research into it.

    I'm finding it hard to take you seriously with the manner in which you're speaking with. Next time I won't bother replying and you can do your own research.

    She was the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s wife who narrated many ahadith which Muslims today follow. The ahadith are strong and are deemed reliable by respectable scholars.

    (Original post by Josb)
    It doesn't say that they should wear a veil over their hair. It says bosoms. I agree with that.

    And the full veil contradicts the second quote.
    Like I said, the Arabic word for veil is 'khimar' and that means head cover. So the verse is saying to draw their head covers onto their chests.

    Some scholars say the full veil is compulsory, some say it isn't.

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    It is compulsory to cover the head in Islam.
    no it isnt. you are thinking of sikhism
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    The 'veil' in the translation is a head cover. So the verse is speaking to women who had a head cover on in the first place, but now they are being asked to draw it onto their chests.

    You don't know Arabic that's why it's hard to explain.
    Because veil comes under head cover. If you were Arabic speaking you would know that, but because you aren't, you have to look into its interpretation and research into it.

    I'm finding it hard to take you seriously with the manner in which you're speaking with. Next time I won't bother replying and you can do your own research.

    She was the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s wife who narrated many ahadith which Muslims today follow. The ahadith are strong and are deemed reliable by respectable scholars.
    what kind of universal and accessible religion demands that their followers learn a second language?! if your god was trying to get his message across in the most sensible manner, he failed spectacularly! and secondly, this arabic speaker disagrees: http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2014...an-put-makeup/
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    incorrect - khimar simply means cover ( and has been shown to mean window cover, table cover etc in clsssical arabic. the quran 24:31 does not at any point mention 'head (raas) or hair for that matter (sha'ar) when commanding covering up- so therefore you are inserting words to suggest such.

    the only commandment in the quran was to cover your bosom - the rest which spawned the use of niqb, burkha and indeed hijab is all a construct of later generations of men in islamic society.


    Abu Dawud - is he regarded as sahih?

    and yet not presribed in the quran, why would something compulsary not be
    Khimar includes the covering of the head.
    There's a great video by NAK which I'll post tomorrow.

    Yes it's sahih.

    It's compulsory with the evidence I've provided.
    You believe it isn't (well of course you would), but millions of Muslims including the 4 madhabs do which is more important than someone who isn't from Islam.

    There's no point in arguing with you because you're in denial, so I'll let you have your opinion because I don't want to waste this jummah arguing.
    Goodnight

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    Hijab is fine I have no problem with, wear wtf you want. There are Jews and sects of Christians that wear headscrarves and don't get chastised by certain conservatives in society for it

    but the niqab or burqa has no place in the west and never will. It represents the worst part of Islam, wahabism, which should be banned in all countries that aren't saudi. I also don't think extremist jewish sects like the haredis, who also wear burqas should be allowed
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Khimar includes the covering of the head.
    There's a great video by NAK which I'll post tomorrow.
    is this a video that superceeds the quran?

    Khimooran as per the quran, when taken in singular essentially refers to a 'cover' that can be referenced to almost anything ( ie table covering for example. The root of khimar is used also for example to refer to arabic for 'intoxicants' , accepted that they 'cover' the mind. So there can be no sugesstion that any derived word has any reference to head or hair as you suggest.
    the verse you identify states specifically a command to cover the chest and never states once that the head or hair should be covered - can you explain why based on your stated understanding? . If head was to be covered why was this not also stated - with indeed specific mention to tucking in hair .
    the idea of wearing a 'hijab' or any head covering is not mentioned in the quran but was already commonplace in pre-islamic arabic society , as it was in various non islamic societies such as ancient rome, greece, south east asia etc where a form of head scarf was popular for women. the islamic arabs simply carried this tradition on, and later high profile sheikhs and imams tried to suggest this was islamic ( even though the quran never prescribed it)

    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Yes it's sahih.
    thats news to me


    (Original post by HAnwar)
    It's compulsory with the evidence I've provided.
    You believe it isn't (well of course you would), but millions of Muslims including the 4 madhabs do which is more important than someone who isn't from Islam.
    millions of muslims smoke, play music and use facebook - does this mean thats all commanded by the quran also?


    (Original post by HAnwar)
    There's no point in arguing with you because you're in denial, so I'll let you have your opinion because I don't want to waste this jummah arguing.
    Goodnight

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    np.
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    What's wrong with you people? You have to turn everything onto a religious debate. At 2AM in the morning smh
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    (Original post by al_94)
    What's wrong with you people? You have to turn everything onto a religious debate. At 2AM in the morning smh
    ppl are curious why some muslims try and suggest the quran tells them to cover certain body parts when it clearly doesnt.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Yes the less you cover, the more business like you look... :rolleyes:
    It's not so much about the amount you cover, It's more the style of clothing. For instance I couldn't wear my Yarmulke when I applied to join the Ku Klux Klan, on duty they usually cover from head to tow... But it's a completely different kind of garb and I just had to accept, you know "when in Rome".

    (The immaculate Rabbi Steve just replied to your comment)
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    If anyone else has an opinion, please feel free to share your thoughts on the matter. How would you feel when assessing a potential candidate?
    I've taken part in hiring two women in my last job who wore the hijab during their interviews. Not once was this brought up during the assessment process and they were both superior applicants.

    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Anyone that interacts at least occasionally with people that wear such clothing or have observed interactions, what were your experiences?
    Experiences were very neutral.

    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    How do you feel about this in general? Consider placing yourself on both sides, i.e the interviewer and candidate, or colleague etc.
    I personally don't agree with a lot of Islam's teachings but that does not mean I discriminate against people for it. I can see why wearing the hijab may make a candidate feel discriminated against. But I think it's important for them to know that not everyone who interviews is a bigot.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    ....you have completely misunderstood the whole story so I'm going to just leave that here because your train of thought is no where near my station.


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    Perhaps if you articulate yourself through analogies that are actually relevant and comparable to real life situations, you would make more sense.

    Have a good day.
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    OP my cousin wears the hijab and abaya and she wore it for her uni interviews, she go into doing medicine.

    (Original post by endgametheory)
    You're a tad bit misled on the terms there. A burka is clothing that covers everything.
    Niqabs do the same yet they just reveal your eyes.
    i agree too.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    incorrect - khimar simply means cover ( and has been shown to mean window cover, table cover etc in clsssical arabic. the quran 24:31 does not at any point mention 'head (raas) or hair for that matter (sha'ar) when commanding covering up- so therefore you are inserting words to suggest such.

    the only commandment in the quran was to cover your bosom - the rest which spawned the use of niqb, burkha and indeed hijab is all a construct of later generations of men in islamic society.


    Abu Dawud - is he regarded as sahih?

    and yet not presribed in the quran, why would something compulsary not be
    The word is sometimes translated as "bosom", but in Arabic it refers to the head, neck and chest, not just the chest area. Scholars have studied this and I'm sure they know far better than we do. Some women make this same excuse because they don't want to wear the hijab. It's also used by others to 'prove' the fact that Muslim women are oppressed and are being forced by men to cover their heads.

    “…and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) …”.
    "The jayb (pl. juyoob) is the neck opening of a garment and the khimaar (veil) is that with which a woman covers her head."
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (e.g. bosoms)..." [Quran 24:31]
    The Arabic word for veil is khimar and that means head cover.

    "Aisha (RA) reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr (RA) came to the Messenger of Allah*while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]



    The four main Islamic schools of thought have all unanimously agreed it's compulsory.

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    Draw their head covers over their boobs?

    I think someone may have a translation error... Or perhaps just a confirmation bias?
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    The word is sometimes translated as "bosom", but in Arabic it refers to the head, neck and chest, not just the chest area.
    incorrect, the arabic for 'head ' is "raas" and is a very specific word as its used in many contexts in reference to head ie in beheading or shaving of head at hajj. This term or nothing like it is used in the verse he quotes 24:31.

    and your understanding of ' Juyoobihinna ' is simplistic. it is the plural of
    jaiyb (itself a derivative of the word jawb ie cutting/slit) which refers to the opening of the neckline of the old arabic dress - ie the low cut neck dow to bosom. so the commandment was to pull thier shawls (covers) across their necklines . again at no point is there further commandments to cover the heads or indeed the hair. These are later additions to islamic thought by your so called 'scholars' who wanted women to appear a certain way in public

    (Original post by yasminkattan)


    Scholars have studied this and I'm sure they know far better than we do.
    assumption can lead you to errors.

    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Some women make this same excuse because they don't want to wear the hijab. It's also used by others to 'prove' the fact that Muslim women are oppressed and are being forced by men to cover their heads.
    we can show quite categorically they are not forced by the quran at all. they are compelled by islamic traditon however, becuase many hundreds of generations of ruling muslim males have imposed the idea that women should be fully covered ( sometimes head to toe) i guess to avoid tempting men, or certainly to reduce the greed of jealousy of one man coveting antoher mans wife ( property)

    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    “…and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) …”.
    "The jayb (pl. juyoob) is the neck opening of a garment and the khimaar (veil) is that with which a woman covers her head."
    as i already stated above. however khimar in classical arabic doesnt mean anything to do with the head - it simply means 'cover' and has been used to mean cover for anything and everything - from tables to windows.
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    I don't see why people wouldn't hire/accept someone for wearing a piece of cloth.


    I always criticise Islam, I would never take it out on Muslims though.
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    (Original post by Free Kurdistan)
    I don't see why people wouldn't hire/accept someone for wearing a piece of cloth.


    I always criticise Islam, I would never take it out on Muslims though.
    I would not hire someone wearing a niqab/burka if the role required any level of face-to-face service (or even if it didn't I just don't think I'd want to work with someone so retarded, tbh).


    But then one must consider the likelihood of such women trying to find employment in the first place...
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    (Original post by Callous Twits)
    I would not hire someone wearing a niqab/burka if the role required any level of face-to-face service (or even if it didn't I just don't think I'd want to work with someone so retarded, tbh).


    But then one must consider the likelihood of such women trying to find employment in the first place...


    I've never minded interacting with people wearing veils, so I never realised so many people were so averse to it until they said on TSR.


    The thing is, deep down I know that Islam massively uses it's persecution complex to secure the faith of the believers, if a Muslim woman is asked to remove her Niqab, she will be on the phone to her Halal gyal crew whinging about those Islamophobes, if you're nice they'll take it off in their own time
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    (Original post by Free Kurdistan)
    I've never minded interacting with people wearing veils, so I never realised so many people were so averse to it until they said on TSR.
    I don't think I've ever spoken to someone wearing a niqab/burka. 2/3 hijabis, but that's about it.

    The thing is, deep down I know that Islam massively uses it's persecution complex to secure the faith of the believers, if a Muslim woman is asked to remove her Niqab, she will be on the phone to her Halal gyal crew whinging about those Islamophobes, if you're nice they'll take it off in their own time
    why go to a job interview in a niqab, though? that's just asking for a rejection.
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Have you attended job or university interviews whilst wearing such clothing? If so, can you please share your experiences. Did you face any difficulties, comments made, questions etc.?

    What has your success rate been like?

    When attending such interviews or assessments, do you remove such clothing? If so, why?

    If anyone else has an opinion, please feel free to share your thoughts on the matter. How would you feel when assessing a potential candidate?

    Anyone that interacts at least occasionally with people that wear such clothing or have observed interactions, what were your experiences?

    How do you feel about this in general? Consider placing yourself on both sides, i.e the interviewer and candidate, or colleague etc.

    If you've thought about this but not yet old enough or in a position to apply for roles/courses, what are your thoughts on the matter?

    Thanks.

    Personally, in recruitment at the interview stage, I would want to see your face and expressions as we discuss the role and your background and so on. I wouldn't mind if you were wearing a hijab/head scarf as this would be showing your face.

    It would be interesting to see how our society in general views this.
    This is a really important question, so thank you for posting it.
    I wear the Hijab and I've applied to university for Law and I have 3 offers from great Russel Group universities.None of them needed an interview.
    However, I want to become a barrister and I've thought about the complications that wearing a hijab can have, especially during interview. I can see why as a barrister it would be important for people to see a face. (I don't wear a Niqab, I wear a hijab.)
    But I don't see why wearing a Niqab should be an automatic barrier for a job. For example, there is no urgent need to see the face of an administrator, or or a medical researcheror even a retail assiatant. I think those who recruit should bear in mind that obtaining a job as a Niqabi, or hijabi, is already exceptionally difficult. I believe that interviewers should embrace difference and recognise talent beyond a piece of clothing.
    Wearing a hijab can also be an issue.
    Hijab wearing barristers are practically non existent, and I fear that the reason is because they are immediatley written off if they wear the hijab. In 21st century Britain, surely we can accept brilliantly intelligent and academic hijab wearers?
    When I apply to become a barrister in the near future, I'd want to be judged based on my ability to reason and to put forward an arguement, and not based on my appearence.
 
 
 
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