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    (Original post by moggis)
    I find it interesting that the clear majority of young people are pro EU when, according to many of the comments I have read on this forum, most young people will find it incredibly hard to buy a house ( in an area where there are decent jobs) and wages are being kept low to some extent by,once again according to comments I have read on this forum,large scale Eastern European immigration.

    So older people with houses are against the EU even though immigration quite possibly or even probably helps to keep house prices buoyant yet young people who rent welcome the EU and presumably the very free movement of people that may be making their lives in this country tougher.


    Hmmmm.I don't have anything to say about that.But perhaps someone else does.Then again it may already have been dealt with.
    The issue is there is a lack of affordable housing, not housing as a whole. If you have a lot of money, you can buy a house easily. There are enough housing but a lot of it is being bought by buy to let landlords and let out at high rents, some of it are in places that lack jobs, some are left empty and run down or expensive new properties bought by speculators.

    Germany also has a lot of migrants, over a million Poles live in Germany but they have rent control so most people can afford to rent and there is little incentive to speculate.

    House prices are more a function of available credit more than a shortage of houses. During the 2007 credit crunch, house prices fell because mortgages were harder to get rather than a decrease in the population.

    Low wages are not a bad thing, the problem is how much your wage buys. Low wages help competitiveness but its only a problem if the cost of living is high. If immigrants were removed and wages increase, that could increase living costs and there would be no improvement or even a decrease in living standards.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The issue is there is a lack of affordable housing, not housing as a whole. If you have a lot of money, you can buy a house easily. There are enough housing but a lot of it is being bought by buy to let landlords and let out at high rents, some of it are in places that lack jobs, some are left empty and run down or expensive new properties bought by speculators.

    Germany also has a lot of migrants, over a million Poles live in Germany but they have rent control so most people can afford to rent and there is little incentive to speculate.

    House prices are more a function of available credit more than a shortage of houses. During the 2007 credit crunch, house prices fell because mortgages were harder to get rather than a decrease in the population.

    Low wages are not a bad thing, the problem is how much your wage buys. Low wages help competitiveness but its only a problem if the cost of living is high. If immigrants were removed and wages increase, that could increase living costs and there would be no improvement or even a decrease in living standards.

    Low wages are a bad thing for those people who receive them.Especially if they make it impossible for someone to save a deposit.

    I don't really see that you have said anything that actually 'refutes' the belief that the free movement of people has quite possibly made life tougher for young people in this country?

    Landlords buy up houses because there is both a shortage of houses in certain areas but a ready supply of tenants willing to pay market rents.And some of these tenants are immigrants.

    However if in fact there really is no problem at all for young people as a result of EU membership then all well and good.

    That part of the conundrum is explained.

    Cheers
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    (Original post by moggis)
    I find it interesting that the clear majority of young people are pro EU when, according to many of the comments I have read on this forum, most young people will find it incredibly hard to buy a house ( in an area where there are decent jobs) and wages are being kept low to some extent by,once again according to comments I have read on this forum,large scale Eastern European immigration.

    So older people with houses are against the EU even though immigration quite possibly or even probably helps to keep house prices buoyant yet young people who rent welcome the EU and presumably the very free movement of people that may be making their lives in this country tougher.


    Hmmmm.I don't have anything to say about that.But perhaps someone else does.Then again it may already have been dealt with.
    Well, unless you are in South East, then Houses are generally affordable.

    Even in areas with low rates of immigration, House Prices are continuing to rise significantly due to a lack of supply.

    Tbh, I doubt there would be a huge dent on prices even if you were to significantly cut immigration tomorrow.
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    European Union is a failing organisation

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    The average man on the street who wants to leave sees leaving as a way of reducing the flow of inbound immigrants who come equipped with cultures and customs that are difficult to integrate. It's that simple in their minds. They don't give a monkey's about how leaving the EU may affect big businesses like O2 or M&S, air travel or the Square Mile.

    The average man cares more about the social/cultural changes, wages and the increased pressure on infrastructure/services brought about the recent waves of mass immigration.

    The migration crisis hasn't abated and it'll only become worse as time passes - number of new migrants into Europe have already hit 100k this year. A lot of people who want leave see leaving as a way of curbing the side effects of this growing problem.

    For the average leaver it's purely about reducing immigration and nothing else.
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    I think we should Steve the EU
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    People look at the short term and not long term. We don't need the EU. If Britain leaves and possibility of others leaving the EU is doomed.

    Like the Soviet Union it sounded good until put into practice.

    Are the benefits really worth it?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Also, if Scotland leaves the UK, they will not be part of the EU unless they reapply.
    Whilst Salmond was talking nonsense on the subject of EU membership at the time of the Scottish referendum, everything is much more fluid if the UK leaves simultaneously with Scottish independence. Europe could convince itself that Scotland was the successor to the UK's EU membership.
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    Leave! All those migrants coming in a stealing our jobs and benefits. It needs to be stopped.
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    (Original post by MrMcBants)
    Leave! All those migrants coming in a stealing our jobs and benefits. It needs to be stopped.
    Stealing your jobs? Is there an entitlement here?

    If they got the job over you, you don't deserve it anyway.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by *stefan*)
    stealing your jobs? Is there an entitlement here?

    If they got the job over you, you don't deserve it anyway.

    posted from tsr mobile
    pipe down
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    (Original post by MrMcBants)
    pipe down
    Stronk

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    The average man on the street who wants to leave sees leaving as a way of reducing the flow of inbound immigrants who come equipped with cultures and customs that are difficult to integrate. It's that simple in their minds. They don't give a monkey's about how leaving the EU may affect big businesses like O2 or M&S, air travel or the Square Mile.

    The average man cares more about the social/cultural changes, wages and the increased pressure on infrastructure/services brought about the recent waves of mass immigration.

    The migration crisis hasn't abated and it'll only become worse as time passes - number of new migrants into Europe have already hit 100k this year. A lot of people who want leave see leaving as a way of curbing the side effects of this growing problem.

    For the average leaver it's purely about reducing immigration and nothing else.
    But the point is, he is not the average person; he believes he is the average person and more than that he believes he is the normal person.

    He will regard women as a minority, along with blacks, gays, and the disabled. He thinks the average person drinks bitter and not a latte.

    He fails to understand why his view usually doesn't prevail even though everyone he knows thinks like him.

    He doesn't build a political coalition, because he thinks he is a member of the dominant group when actually he is a member of a significant minority,
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    Leave.
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    I might not vote. "Whatever happens, happens". I'll let everyone else decide.

    Can anyone tell me when the UK properly joined the EU? And when did the problems start happening?
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    I might not vote. "Whatever happens, happens". I'll let everyone else decide.

    Can anyone tell me when the UK properly joined the EU? And when did the problems start happening?
    We joined what was then commonly but inaccurately called the Common Market or the European Economic Community on 1st January 1973.

    It all depends what you mean by the problems but there is a plausible case for saying June 1950 when Herbert Morrison said "The Durham miners won't wear it"
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But the point is, he is not the average person; he believes he is the average person and more than that he believes he is the normal person.

    He will regard women as a minority, along with blacks, gays, and the disabled. He thinks the average person drinks bitter and not a latte.

    He fails to understand why his view usually doesn't prevail even though everyone he knows thinks like him.

    He doesn't build a political coalition, because he thinks he is a member of the dominant group when actually he is a member of a significant minority,
    Interesting how you conflate the legitimate desire to reduce and control immigration with all of this - you should have added a few more phobias for good measure. The desire to leave the EU is one that is shared among a growing number of educated non-white people too. Your post amounts to nothing more than a poor attempt to smear a post that you disagree with.
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    Interesting how you conflate the legitimate desire to reduce and control immigration with all of this - you should have added a few more phobias for good measure. The desire to leave the EU is one that is shared among a growing number of educated non-white people too. Your post amounts to nothing more than a poor attempt to smear a post that you disagree with.
    I am fairly describing a section of the electorate. The fact that there are others who wish to leave the EU who do not fall within the section I have described is sagely irrelevant.

    http://www.demos.co.uk/files/Changing_places_-_web.pdf
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But the point is, he is not the average person; he believes he is the average person and more than that he believes he is the normal person.

    He will regard women as a minority, along with blacks, gays, and the disabled. He thinks the average person drinks bitter and not a latte.

    He fails to understand why his view usually doesn't prevail even though everyone he knows thinks like him.

    He doesn't build a political coalition, because he thinks he is a member of the dominant group when actually he is a member of a significant minority,
    Anyone in the UK who isn't an average person is in a minority, the "average people" you refer to and clearly have a lot of disdain for would appear to mean the white working class. As everyday working people(the vast majority of them being people who ticked the white British box on the census form) make up the lion's share of the population I think their opinions on the UK's future count for something.

    By the way I'm voting in but that's beside the point.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Anyone in the UK who isn't an average person is in a minority, the "average people" you refer to and clearly have a lot of disdain for would appear to mean the white working class. As everyday working people(the vast majority of them being people who ticked the white British box on the census form) make up the lion's share of the population I think their opinions on the UK's future count for something.

    By the way I'm voting in but that's beside the point.
    First of all, the people I have identified do not make up the "lion's share" of the population but you are exactly fulfilling the stereotype I have identified by regarding themselves and yourself as being one of average people. How can I be so sure of that? Because my stereotype is entirely male and anyone who identifies an entirely male group as being "average" has precisely the blindspot that I identify.

    My stereotype is not exclusively working class; it includes the golf club bore as much as the man down the working man's club.

    Moreover, my attitude is not one of distain. There is a certain amount of sympathy for people bypassed by history. However, as I said they lose the argument because they do not build coalitions. They are not the lion's share of the population but they think they are.
 
 
 
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