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    (Original post by greatguy231)
    But if it was a white man doing this yours would say 'lonewolf' 'mentally ill' etc.
    Muslims can be any colour. The point is these *******s are shouting 'god is great', if a Christian or Jew shouted the same I would say it has to do with their religion.
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    (Original post by z33)
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    What's the Sunnah? Do you mean the Ahadith?
    Some (dare I say most) of those are ******** and not true, made up or lost in interpretation (like Chinese whispers) throughout History. That's why there's people out there who filter them out and take out the stuff that makes sense chronologically and originate from reliable people. However in the major sect of Islam, Sunni Islam, all Ahadith - made up or not - are taken as solid fact and all are true and valid and must be followed - resulting in extremism and incidents such as these. Think about it, a guy who was close friends with the prophet (pbuh) fell out with him over something and decided to twist his words as a means to get revenge by saying he did something he didn't do. Rumour circles around to many people who pass it down to their kids and write it down etc. Modern Muslims take this as true because - fell he was the prophet's friend so must be true right? Shia Muslims look at the origin of the story, the take of the prophet and other people who know him on the story, different accounts and the dates they were published, and THEN decide whether this was true or not. They don't dismiss it like that because it gives you an idea of who was lying in the chain of events and whether this impacts the validity of accounts of other events if said person was involved in them. And that's how we determine whether the prophet really did commit any of those crimes. This is why I'm Muslim, I may be stupid, but I'm not stupid enough to make a murderer/ pedophile my role model.
    But let's not make this about Islam. Let's make this about the child and their family who deserve justice for what was done to them by these savages
    Shia Muslims also have to some extent, completely different collections of Hadith. I've never actually looked at any Shia hadith. Would you say that on the whole they contain less violent Hadith?

    Also, are you saying that the matn (text) itself is also subject to analysis? I was also wondering (I hope I'm not asking too many questions), whether the individual lay person has much freedom to judge or criticise the isnad or matn of a Hadith themselves?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    She calmly walks through the street in a burka holding a childs severed head shouting Allah akbar. It appears she was a nanny.

    Why does the majority of this level of savagery come from muslims? It seems to me either the media do not report a significant number of similar acts of violence by non muslims or that there is a very clear and strong link between Islam and this level of brutality.

    There is the uncensored video out there which i obviously wont post here incase people think there is some spin to this.

    So are there mass numbers of beheadings, lone wolfs and organised that simply go unreported by the news or do these acts for some reason seem to come majorly from Islamic adherents?

    Thoughts?

    http://news.sky.com/story/1650731/wo...head-in-moscow
    Yea, I'm not a Muslim but I'll bet the keys to my house that this "woman" was NOT a follower of Islam.

    Just because one dons a burka and shouts "Allah Akbar" it doesn't make them a Muslim any more then me wearing a priest collar and shouting "In the name of the father, The Son and The Holy Spirit..." makes me a Christian.

    Just because the media calls it one way doesn't mean that it's the truth for crying out loud. Having said all that, it doesn't make it untrue either but it would help if we all exercised some critical thinking.
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    (Original post by LVRG)
    Yea, I'm not a Muslim but I'll bet the keys to my house that this "woman" was NOT a follower of Islam.

    Just because one dons a burka and shouts "Allah Akbar" it doesn't make them a Muslim any more then me wearing a priest collar and shouting "In the name of the father, The Son and The Holy Spirit..." makes me a Christian.

    Just because the media calls it one way doesn't mean that it's the truth for crying out loud. Having said all that, it doesn't make it untrue either but it would help if we all exercised some critical thinking.
    Prepare to send me your keys.

    Sources inside the police have said the suspect is from Uzbekistan which is 96 % Muslim.

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Prepare to send me your keys.

    Sources inside the police have said the suspect is from Uzbekistan which is 96 % Muslim.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Still doesn't make her a real Muslim though. I'll hold on to these xD
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    (Original post by LVRG)
    Still doesn't make her a real Muslim though. I'll hold on to these xD
    "Real" Muslim. No True Scotsman.

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    "Real" Muslim. No True Scotsman.

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    Touché
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    (Original post by LVRG)
    Still doesn't make her a real Muslim though. I'll hold on to these xD
    a 'real' Muslim!
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    (Original post by LVRG)
    Yea, I'm not a Muslim but I'll bet the keys to my house that this "woman" was NOT a follower of Islam.
    Is it just the keys, or does the house come with them? (I'm not really in need of any more keys)

    Just because one dons a burka and shouts "Allah Akbar" it doesn't make them a Muslim any more then me wearing a priest collar and shouting "In the name of the father, The Son and The Holy Spirit..." makes me a Christian.
    Indeed not. But saying the shahada, praying, fasting and paying zakat does. And if this woman was (as reports claim) a Sunni Muslim from a country which is 94% Muslim, it seems likely that she does (or did) all of those.
    Conversely, doing something appaling does not make a Muslim, not a Muslim.

    In this case, it would seem that her actions were more to do with mental illness than an attempt to further an Islamist agenda - although the severing of heads and shouting Allahu akbar is a regular feature amongst the more extreme Islamists.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Shia Muslims also have to some extent, completely different collections of Hadith. I've never actually looked at any Shia hadith. Would you say that on the whole they contain less violent Hadith?

    Also, are you saying that the matn (text) itself is also subject to analysis? I was also wondering (I hope I'm not asking too many questions), whether the individual lay person has much freedom to judge or criticise the isnad or matn of a Hadith themselves?
    We have many collections of Hadith including Sunni Hadiths, however whether we take them as true fact (Sahih) or not is a different story. For us Shias we collect all Hadiths, violent, not violent, true, not true, etc. because our goal is to preserve as many as possible. These are all preserved in 'The Four Books' - which are collections of Hadiths. However then reliable people and historians sort these out to filter what is fabricated and what is true. Our collections are different because for Sunnis anything in 'The Big Six' is considered 100% fact and should be followed strictly. So upon first inspection, you'll find some crazy insane stuff in our Shia books but it's most probably not true. And it will say whether it's true or not, or whether it's weak, and reference the scholars who think it's true.

    I haven't read many Sunni Hadiths but from what I've seen online the violence in them is a lot
    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_H...Under_Muhammad
    I mean there are many Sunni Hadiths stating the prophet had sent people to murder and torture in barbaric ways, however in our Hadiths there was no such thing as the prophet marrying a 6 year old and killing people, even in war he said we are not allowed to kill unless being attacked, he was kind to the enemies.

    "Muhammad forces a 17 yr old Jewish girl called Safiyyah to marry him and rapes her on the same day her husband and family are killed in the battle of Khaibar (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 522, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367)." - is this for real? Sunnis have said that there's a 100% authentic Hadith stating the prophet RAPED a 17 year old?!?! I don't understand why you would portray your prophet like that... or if he really did these acts - why you would even follow him? There's nothing like that in Shia Hadiths so yeah in many ways they are less violent.

    I think the violence aspect is mainly due to the difference in leaders after the prophet. Umar ibn al Kattab was allegedly elected caliphate after Abu Bakr as successor to the prophet, yet he was the one to brutally attack the prophet's daughter and cause her to miscarry and eventually die as a result of her injuries. When someone like that is elected leader, there is bound to be a lot of violence. Sunnis deny this entire event even when there are many sources to back it up... but they don't deny the violent Hadiths in their books? Dunno it confuses me ngl - any Sunnis feel free to clear this up...

    Yes the text has to be analysed to see if it fits in with the other accounts of this event, how many accounts are there, when did this happen, who documented it, did they do it independently or were they related? Who were they to the prophet? Were they honest, were they good people?

    There are different sects within Shia Islam, Akhbari's do the whole sorting thing themselves, whereas Usulis follow what the scholars say (special people who sorted it out for them).

    Prob offended a million people so gonna go ahead and say I KNOW SOME SUNNIS ARE PEACEFUL PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS AND I KNOW SOME SHIAS ARE *******S SO SIT DOWN

    thank you
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    Poor family. Expect Moscow's feeling very culturally enriched RN, just as we Londoners were when the same thing happened to Lee Rigby :rolleyes:

    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I only wish the worst torture and death upon her
    That's not a response consistent with our (Judeo-Christian) British values, fam

    (Original post by get schlonged m8)
    seen .. Russian neo-Nazis killing Muslims, cossack paramilitaries running Muslim families off their land, Russia is an awful place
    ..and it's about to get that much worse for Muslims :erm:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Poor family. Expect Moscow's feeling very culturally enriched RN, just as we Londoners were when the same thing happened to Lee Rigby :rolleyes:

    That's not a response consistent with our (Judeo-Christian) British values, fam

    ..and it's about to get that much worse for Muslims :erm:
    I am not the perfect British citizen in terms of values, most of mine align but a few deviate.
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    (Original post by z33)
    There are different sects within Shia Islam, Akhbari's do the whole sorting thing themselves, whereas Usulis follow what the scholars say (special people who sorted it out for them).
    Thanks for the reply

    I want to read up more on Shia Islam as there are many different schools which I know next to nothing about.Would be interesting to see the different practices within Islam.

    One thing I do love about Islam is that once you look past the Salafi's and such, you find within Islam such a great array of different schools with their own unique aspects and customs. Although I know this comment will get me accused of encouraging bidah...
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Thanks for the reply

    I want to read up more on Shia Islam as there are many different schools which I know next to nothing about.Would be interesting to see the different practices within Islam.

    One thing I do love about Islam is that once you look past the Salafi's and such, you find within Islam such a great array of different schools with their own unique aspects and customs. Although I know this comment will get me accused of encouraging bidah...
    Np yeah there are. I plan to spend a good few years researching this stuff in depth, it is really interesting. Yeah Islam isn't just one unit, there are many different sects and schools of thought and this leads to very diverse beliefs and practices and approaches to certain topics. I think this is a good thing, shows how much freedom you have within a religion that it's not THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE AND THIS ONLY AND YOU CAN'T BELIEVE ANYTHING ELSE - it allows you to think and look into what you agree with and what you don't, what reasoning you agree with and what you doubt. And that's cool, and fine! It is our job as humans to investigate and explore these things
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    (Original post by TaintedLight)

    Shove the ****ing razor up your you know what😜

    Common sense would dictate she dressed like a Muslim to commit a henious crime for some godforsaken reason.

    I can go to grocery store and greet whoever there is with an "Assalaumialikum"

    That wont make me a Muslim 🤖
    Common sense would dictate no such thing, that conclusion is ludicrous and goes against common sense. Again, if you have evidence that violates the razor then provide it.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Common sense would dictate no such thing, that conclusion is ludicrous and goes against common sense. Again, if you have evidence that violates the razor then provide it.
    Unmmm the depth of delusion you drowned yourself into is amazing 😭

    I'll keep this simple; how one talks and dress cannnot characterise any religion. /conversation
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    (Original post by TaintedLight)
    Unmmm the depth of delusion you drowned yourself into is amazing 😭

    I'll keep this simple; how one talks and dress cannnot characterise anyreligion. /conversation
    Yes but that is the most unlikely scenario. The irony of you calling me deluded when you're the one saying she's pretending to be a Muslim with not a shred of evidence to prove it.
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    Welcome to Islam.
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    (Original post by z33)
    We have many collections of Hadith including Sunni Hadiths, however whether we take them as true fact (Sahih) or not is a different story. For us Shias we collect all Hadiths, violent, not violent, true, not true, etc. because our goal is to preserve as many as possible. These are all preserved in 'The Four Books' - which are collections of Hadiths. However then reliable people and historians sort these out to filter what is fabricated and what is true. Our collections are different because for Sunnis anything in 'The Big Six' is considered 100% fact and should be followed strictly. So upon first inspection, you'll find some crazy insane stuff in our Shia books but it's most probably not true. And it will say whether it's true or not, or whether it's weak, and reference the scholars who think it's true.

    I haven't read many Sunni Hadiths but from what I've seen online the violence in them is a lot
    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_H...Under_Muhammad
    I mean there are many Sunni Hadiths stating the prophet had sent people to murder and torture in barbaric ways, however in our Hadiths there was no such thing as the prophet marrying a 6 year old and killing people, even in war he said we are not allowed to kill unless being attacked, he was kind to the enemies.

    "Muhammad forces a 17 yr old Jewish girl called Safiyyah to marry him and rapes her on the same day her husband and family are killed in the battle of Khaibar (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 522, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367)." - is this for real? Sunnis have said that there's a 100% authentic Hadith stating the prophet RAPED a 17 year old?!?! I don't understand why you would portray your prophet like that... or if he really did these acts - why you would even follow him? There's nothing like that in Shia Hadiths so yeah in many ways they are less violent.

    I think the violence aspect is mainly due to the difference in leaders after the prophet. Umar ibn al Kattab was allegedly elected caliphate after Abu Bakr as successor to the prophet, yet he was the one to brutally attack the prophet's daughter and cause her to miscarry and eventually die as a result of her injuries. When someone like that is elected leader, there is bound to be a lot of violence. Sunnis deny this entire event even when there are many sources to back it up... but they don't deny the violent Hadiths in their books? Dunno it confuses me ngl - any Sunnis feel free to clear this up...

    Yes the text has to be analysed to see if it fits in with the other accounts of this event, how many accounts are there, when did this happen, who documented it, did they do it independently or were they related? Who were they to the prophet? Were they honest, were they good people?

    There are different sects within Shia Islam, Akhbari's do the whole sorting thing themselves, whereas Usulis follow what the scholars say (special people who sorted it out for them).

    Prob offended a million people so gonna go ahead and say I KNOW SOME SUNNIS ARE PEACEFUL PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS AND I KNOW SOME SHIAS ARE *******S SO SIT DOWN

    thank you
    Lol why are you using anti-Islamic websites to back up your sect as well as giving fake hadith? Look up the hadith you quoted about 'raping' Safiyyah (r.a.) and you will realise it said nothing of the sort.
    If you knew anything about Sunni hadith, you would know that hadith from the 6 books aren't taken at face value, with the isnad of hadith being scutinised more than shia hadith, with a far greater quantity of informatonal available on rajal, whereas shia only have limited information. Also, if you knew anything about shia scholastics, you would realise that even shia historians/scholars base their aqeedah on unreliable information e.g. there is no real authentic narration about Umar (r.a.) causing injury to Fatimah (r.a.) even in shia narrations, yet to deny this event is consindered disgusting in the eyes of shia (because such a fake exaggerated story is the only way they can justify their beliefs that Ali (r.a.) was wronged and that Umar (r.a.) was a naughty naughty man). Shia are renowned for ghulu of both the attributes of the Ahlul Bayt, their stories and also the stories of those they have come to hate like Umar (r.a.) etc...
    Learn more about Islam before you claim to follow it and ironically discredit it in front of non-muslims.
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    (Original post by Dumachi)
    Welcome to Islam.
    I watched a video of christian congolese villagers burn their fellow muslim congolese villagers alive in a ditch including an old woman for no reason - is that representive of christian teaching? If your answer is no, why the double standard mate?
 
 
 
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