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    It really isn't about wages and if you truly think it is you don't understand the points they are making.

    It is about overtime because there isn't enough doctors and nurses to run a service at the weekend like they do on a week day for that they need many thousands more doctors of which the government isn't providing the funding for the training places, the institutions that provide the training places don't have the infrastructure to provide more places even if the government suddenly turned on the money tap and oh year it's going to take 6 years before those juniors come on tap for the nhs.


    In short you can do a full nhs 7 day service in about 10 years if you start funding the training today


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    (Original post by paul514)
    It really isn't about wages and if you truly think it is you don't understand the points they are making.

    It is about overtime because there isn't enough doctors and nurses to run a service at the weekend like they do on a week day for that they need many thousands more doctors of which the government isn't providing the funding for the training places, the institutions that provide the training places don't have the infrastructure to provide more places even if the government suddenly turned on the money tap and oh year it's going to take 6 years before those juniors come on tap for the nhs.


    In short you can do a full nhs 7 day service in about 10 years if you start funding the training today


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    I know I'm only addressing one point but can they not pay tuition fees likes the rest of us?


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I know I'm only addressing one point but can they not pay tuition fees likes the rest of us?


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    Medical students pay tuition for 4 out of the 5 years of medical school.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I know I'm only addressing one point but can they not pay tuition fees likes the rest of us?


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    I still have to pay £9,000 a year for 4 years of my medical degree as well as petrol money and costs of running a car so that I can get to my placements that can be up to an hour drive away.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I know I'm only addressing one point but can they not pay tuition fees likes the rest of us?


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    It costs a million pounds to train a doctor 9k just doesn't cover it and they only pay for 4 years of their training


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    (Original post by Larry31)
    I still have to pay £9,000 a year for 4 years of my medical degree as well as petrol money and costs of running a car so that I can get to my placements that can be up to an hour drive away.
    Travel costs aren't uncommon for students


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    (Original post by paul514)
    It costs a million pounds to train a doctor 9k just doesn't cover it and they only pay for 4 years of their training


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    Where have you plucked that number from?


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Travel costs aren't uncommon for students


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    But more extensive for medical students, especially in the latter half of the course when they're on placement.

    I was literally having to spend about £40/week on parking alone at one point.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    It costs a million pounds to train a doctor 9k just doesn't cover it and they only pay for 4 years of their training


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    It's more like £250k to £330 depending on what sources you use.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Where have you plucked that number from?


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    I've heard it quoted on the daily politics numerous times but here's a link for 700k for a start http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advic...han_we_need%3F


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    It's easy to miss the point-this is not just about junior doctors-they are just the first target. The whole Nhs as we know it is being made to fail, then in a self-fulfilling prophesy, more private companies will bale out an underfunded struggling system. And every private company that wins a contract has a direct link to a Tory MP. None of this will make the Nhs cheaper or better-the only winners will be the private shareholders and their government cronies. Time to wake-up, this is like war on Iraq, this time Nhs is target but again the key is who profits from the rebuilding. If you are naive enough to think this is musing of a paranoid conspiracy theorist check out what Andrew Landsley did to NHs, and then which private firms have him on their board of directors
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Travel costs aren't uncommon for students


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    I recognise that - any student on a vocational degree with placements will have to travel. My point is that we don't have everything handed to us, and we do have to pay a lot of money for our education much like the majority of students out there.
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    OP has clearly just taken the lowest rated comment from the Express/Mail.
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    (Original post by Larry31)
    I recognise that - any student on a vocational degree with placements will have to travel. My point is that we don't have everything handed to us, and we do have to pay a lot of money for our education much like the majority of students out there.
    But medical students still get given education for free, unlike virtually every other student


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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's logic that doesn't exactly hold, by that logic if it were about the money you could be put on the minimum wage and keep your complaints to yourself, and most issues with the contracts in negotiations wouldn't be about pay.

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    Ridiculous comparison.
    "My boss sexual harrassed me"
    "You're leaving because you want more money"
    "No....my boss harr....."
    "Would you work minimum wage?"
    "Ummmm.......no"
    "I rest my case"

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's so believable that all the evidence points to the contrary, if the intention was to privatise the NHS would the increase in the involvement of the private sector not accelerate rather than decelerate? Would there not be ACTUAL privatisation going on too? And if they were wanting to make people want to change it significantly they would be increasing the cost to the point that all but the most ideologically fixated on inefficiency would see it as too expensive for what it's worth.

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    I had no idea you had such naive trust in your party. That latter part is currently happening with the fall in permanent staffing, rise in bureaucracy and locums and fines from staff shortages.

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    (Original post by MattB_)
    I have sympathy with the junior doctors but think that they and the union are being very unreasonable and are in my opinion taking it too far. They constantly hold signs up saying save our NHS and how they want to save patients but surely if they are going to strike in A&E departments as well, that will just overstretch the NHS even further putting patient lives at risk, which shouldn't be acceptable.
    So what are our alternatives then?

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    I had no idea you had such naive trust in your party. That latter part is currently happening with the fall in permanent staffing, rise in bureaucracy and locums and fines from staff shortages.

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    And you know that I am entirely for a good nationalisation of the NHS, although if history is anything to go by it would not be privatised well
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    But medical students still get given education for free, unlike virtually every other student


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    But we don't get free education. We have to pay full university tuition fees for 4 years of our course, meaning I will have paid a total of £36,000 for my education by the time I graduate (without taking into account living and travel costs). Most degrees are only 3 years in length which would cost a student £27,000. I don't know where this idea that we get our education for free has come from, but its certainly far from the truth.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    But medical students still get given education for free, unlike virtually every other student


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    News to me. Feel like a sucker now for paying for my med training.

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