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    (Original post by analleakage)
    That's horrible, you filthy slut.
    :lol:

    Yup, had sex with literally everyone apart from you mainly because I still have standards.
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    If you're really so engrossed with Islam and Homosexuals, it was British Colonization which created laws against them which have now passed over to today generations, for example Pakistan. Now that you're a modern society, its normal.
    "The Pakistan Penal Code of 1860, originally developed under colonialism, punishes sodomy with a possible prison sentence and has other provisions that impact the human rights of LGBT Pakistanis, under the guise of protecting public morality and order"
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    :lol:

    Yup, had sex with literally everyone apart from you mainly because I still have standards.
    :bricks:If that was meant to be offensive...
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    Oh if you're going to play the think of the children cards just get lost.

    I never justified murder just pointed out it's not any different to trial by assault / castration / imprisonment and arguably a hanging hurts less than being stabbed
    You have never tried to justify murder well why are you saying executions are better for gay people over other non lethal punishments?
    Neither should occur
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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    If you're really so engrossed with Islam and Homosexuals, it was British Colonization which created laws against them which have now passed over to today generations, for example Pakistan. Now that you're a modern society, its normal.
    "The Pakistan Penal Code of 1860, originally developed under colonialism, punishes sodomy with a possible prison sentence and has other provisions that impact the human rights of LGBT Pakistanis, under the guise of protecting public morality and order"
    The "colonial" excuse for homophobia in those countries is absolute bunk. First, mainstream Islam has always condemned homosexuality. Iran and Saudi Arabia were never colonised by the West but they are very hostile to LGBT. Saudi's condemnation of LGBT comes directly from sharia.

    Also, the British Empire ended 70 years ago, so they've had plenty of time to repeal those laws in the meantime. The reason they're still on the books is because the people agree with them
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You have never tried to justify murder well why are you saying executions are better for gay people over other non lethal punishments?
    Neither should occur
    No way are you serious? Gay people shouldn't be put to death / castrated / imprisoned? That's only what i've been saying the whole thread.

    I did nothing more than point out that one is just as bad as the other, to say that the UK was not barbaric 50 years ago because it did not execute gay people is legally right, technically wrong, because gay people were still persecuted through other legal means which are just as bad if not worse than execution.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    The thing about religion is that it is not static. The believer is free to interpret in different ways. You don't need to stick to the mainstream interpretation that homosexuality is wrong.

    Have you ever looked into the works of Dr Tawfiq Hamid? He has gone back to the Quranic texts and has come up with a new more tolerant interpretation which looks at the actual Arabic texts, and also considers them in light of the historical context to come up with more enlightened interpretations

    http://www.tawfikhamid.com/education.html
    yh exactly, thats what people don't understand they believe since a couple of goons say we shall kill all, all of a sudden all muslims are murderers, like nahh bro...

    and no ive never heard of him, hmmm interesting
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    Idk much about Singapore apart from the fact its government is actually quite authoritiarian in character
    Well, consider this; Singapore has a higher GDP-per-capita than the UK, and not a cent of it is based on oil wealth. It's based on building themselves up as a technological, trading city-state. Their government is somewhat authoritarian (it's not a totalitarian society), but they have also adopted modern ways of thinking in terms of science and development. What I'm saying is that explaining things purely based on natural resources is not a valid explanation.

    That's actually not a religious explanation, here's a quote from Asmiov:

    Another way of looking at it is to ask what is the "curvature" of theearth's surface Over a considerable length, how much does the surface deviate(on the average) from perfect flatness. The flat-earth theory would makeit seem that the surface doesn't deviate from flatness at all, that itscurvature is 0 to the mile.
    Nowadays, of course, we are taught that the flat-earth theory is wrong;that it is all wrong, terribly wrong, absolutely. But it isn't. The curvatureof the earth is nearly 0 per mile, so that although the flat-earth theoryis wrong, it happens to be nearly right. That's why the theory lasted solong"
    I'm not sure how to respond to that. The earth is a sphere. Knowledge of that is freely available, human beings have travelled to space. There is no justification for still believing the earth is flat, and yet there are people in the Islamic world who believe precisely that because of religious explanations.

    There was even a debate on Iraqi TV with one man claiming the earth is flat. I feel sorry for that poor scientist being surrounded by such ignorance. Here it is;

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    (Original post by Virgili)
    No way are you serious? Gay people shouldn't be put to death / castrated / imprisoned? That's only what i've been saying the whole thread.

    I did nothing more than point out that one is just as bad as the other, to say that the UK was not barbaric 50 years ago because it did not execute gay people is legally right, technically wrong, because gay people were still persecuted through other legal means which are just as bad if not worse than execution.
    I haven't said the uk wasn't barbaric 50 years ago by criminalising being gay I have said neither execution or any other punishment should happen.

    What you have said is that executions are better for gay people
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Well, consider this; Singapore has a higher GDP-per-capita than the UK, and not a cent of it is based on oil wealth. It's based on building themselves up as a technological, trading city-state. Their government is somewhat authoritarian (it's not a totalitarian society), but they have also adopted modern ways of thinking in terms of science and development. What I'm saying is that explaining things purely based on natural resources is not a valid explanation.



    I'm not sure how to respond to that. The earth is a sphere. Knowledge of that is freely available, human beings have travelled to space. There is no justification for still believing the earth is flat, and yet there are people in the Islamic world who believe precisely that because of religious explanations.

    There was even a debate on Iraqi TV with one man claiming the earth is flat. I feel sorry for that poor scientist being surrounded by such ignorance. Here it is;

    You know what the irony is? The earth is not a sphere, not in the mathematical sense, you see you made this judgement based on accumulation of evidence and you were led to this perfectly valid belief. While it is true that these people are stupid now, there are legitimate scientific arguments to be made for flat Earth by for example the Sumerian people simply due to the limited availability of evidence.
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    You know what the irony is? The earth is not a sphere, not in the mathematical sense, you see you made this judgement based on accumulation of evidence and you were led to this perfectly valid belief.
    The earth is an oblate spheroid, and you are being silly and pedantic. My assertion was broadly correct and you're just being frivolous to respond in the way you have.

    While it is true that these people are stupid now, there are legitimate scientific arguments to be made for flat Earth
    Seriously? You're a flat earther?

    There are no legitimate arguments to be made for a flat earth. The earth is not flat, this has been proven and knowledge of that fact is so ubiquitous that holding to the contrary is pure pigheaded religious ignorance.

    Yes, before people had modern techniques to understand the nature of the earth they had good reasons to believe what they did. There is no such justification in the 21st century
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    Yes but does lack of development cause these views or do these views cause lack of development? There seems to be an argument that the reason the West is wealthy is because of its values,
    Western values encourage openness, analytical thinking and exploration of ideas. This means progress, with technology and science enabling economic advancement. It is no coincidence that Europe developed after the Renaissance started the process of freeing them from the shackles of oppressive and restricting religion.

    Islamic values discourage openness, analytical thinking and exploration of ideas.

    This leads to a stifling of scientific progress, a lack of native technological advance and consequent relative poverty.

    Any wealth the Islamic nations have is solely dependent on the western democracies' desire for their natural resources. When that tails off, as it must soon, the Islamic countries, especially those that did not have oil, will be in no position to advance, still being stifled in their ability think outside the Koran, and having no valuable natural resources.
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    , there are legitimate scientific arguments to be made for flat Earth
    No there aren't. You have just destroyed your credibility.
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    There are homophobic idiots of all faiths and of none.

    As TSR proves..
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    The earth is an oblate spheroid, and you are being silly and pedantic. My assertion was broadly correct and you're just being frivolous to respond in the way you have.



    Seriously? You're a flat earther?

    There are no legitimate arguments to be made for a flat earth. The earth is not flat, this has been proven and knowledge of that fact is so ubiquitous that holding to the contrary is pure pigheaded religious ignorance.

    Yes, before people had modern techniques to understand the nature of the earth they had good reasons to believe what they did. There is no such justification in the 21st century
    Wow can you people read? First I get accused of encouraging executions now i'm being accused of being a flat earther.

    The shape of the Earth is an ellipsoid not a sphere, this is a mathematically wrong description of the Earth, it is not pedantic it is wrong in accordance with mathematics.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_ellipsoid

    I have done nothing more than point out the original beliefs in flat earth were based on legitimate scientific beliefs not religion. I have not said they are right, they are quite clearly wrong, however they were based on empirical observations and generalisations of the surrounding geography and they did allow certain cultures to make predictions on the basis of this which were useful.

    (Original post by Good bloke)
    No there aren't. You have just destroyed your credibility.
    See above, as i've already explained it's wrong now, very wrong, but for ancient cultures it was a perfectly valid assumption based on evidence at the time, that's why i've refered to it as a scientific and not religious.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    Technically speaking it is compassionate for homosexuals punished by death in this world..it spares them punishment for said sin in the hereafter.
    You make comments like this and then scream Islamophobia when we criticise you.

    Do you have any capability for rational and unbiased thinking and arguments?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Western values encourage openness, analytical thinking and exploration of ideas. This means progress, with technology and science enabling economic advancement. It is no coincidence that Europe developed after the Renaissance started the process of freeing them from the shackles of oppressive and restricting religion.

    Islamic values discourage openness, analytical thinking and exploration of ideas.

    This leads to a stifling of scientific progress, a lack of native technological advance and consequent relative poverty.

    Any wealth the Islamic nations have is solely dependent on the western democracies' desire for their natural resources. When that tails off, as it must soon, the Islamic countries, especially those that did not have oil, will be in no position to advance, still being stifled in their ability think outside the Koran, and having no valuable natural resources.
    Well said dude, PRSOM. You expressed what I was trying to say much more eloquently.

    The engine room of Western development is our universities. Technological development ultimately comes from the scientific advances we make there, and that could only begin in a big way once people in the universities unshackled themselves from religious dogma and started to explore and test the natural world in spite of there being religious explanations for these things.

    It was by their willingness to question religious explanations for the natural world that we started to develop our physics, chemistry etc. You have to first leave behind the mindset that makes religion unquestionable to then start to develop and innovate. The Islamic world hasn't yet made that leap.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    Technically speaking it is compassionate for homosexuals punished by death in this world..it spares them punishment for said sin in the hereafter.
    Here is one those so-called "moderate" adherents of the "religion of peace".
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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    "The Pakistan Penal Code of 1860, originally developed under colonialism, punishes sodomy with a possible prison sentence
    You must be referring to the misplaced attempt to be liberal by allowing locally-desired laws that fitted in with culture and religion as desired locally. Did I mention that these laws were desired by the locals? Why? Because they had been invaded, colonised, influenced hundreds of years before the British had heard of them by Islam.
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    The shape of the Earth is an ellipsoid not a sphere, this is a mathematically wrong description of the Earth
    Actually, the earth is an oblate spheroid (which is an "ellipsoid of revolution"). And yes, you are trying to be pedantic (if you want to be a pedant though, you need to be accurate)

    And yes, you are trying to tear down my criticism of flat earth beliefs by implying that because I said sphere not "oblate spheroid" then that is in some way comparable to believing the earth is flat.

    I have done nothing more than point out the original beliefs in flat earth were based on legitimate scientific beliefs not religion. I have not said they are right, they are quite clearly wrong, however they were based on empirical observations and generalisations of the surrounding geography and they did allow certain cultures to make predictions on the basis of this which were useful.
    But you seem determined to ignore the actual relevant point which is that while such a belief might have been understandable according to the knowledge of ancient people and within the constraints of their scientific understanding, there is no such justification for someone to hold to such a belief today
 
 
 
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