Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Aph)
    You mean the SDLP? And this is a UK forum so if you did that you would be stupid.

    The point about accountability still stands you have done nothing to reject it only say that you shouldn't be accountable. What gives your party more of a right to be called 'labour' then the greens or the socalists or even the liberals. As I've said before pre-Corbyn TSR labour was far left or RL labour being anti-trident, anti-monarchy and many other things that corbyn is. At that time the Liberals might have been more like RL labour then you were so why shouldn't they have been allowed to call themselves that?

    The cruxes of the argument is that at the end of the day a name is a name, but if a name confers an unfair advantage for no real reason then that name ought to be removed. Hence either enforcable ties to the real parties or bans on RL names and logos entirely.
    No, I mean the Labour Party in the Republic of Ireland.

    It works the same way as setting up a party in RL. If there's already a party registered with that name, you can't use it yourself. Labour's policy position over the years has changed, both on TSR and in RL.

    Ties to the real parties are not enforceable, that is the thing.
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Its a product of often having the word "national" as part of far right movements. Much like the english flag in the same regard.
    That association is something English though, in Scotland or Wales that is not the case in the same way.
    • Very Important Poster
    • Welcome Squad
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    No, I mean the Labour Party in the Republic of Ireland.

    It works the same way as setting up a party in RL. If there's already a party registered with that name, you can't use it yourself. Labour's policy position over the years has changed, both on TSR and in RL.

    Ties to the real parties are not enforceable, that is the thing.
    Then the point about stupidity remains.

    Yes but we have to recognise that we are a small simulation within a pre-existing political system. IRL when a party does something everyone knows and people vote and join parties based on that. On here when something happens nobody really knows and often bases their judgment on how they perceive RL parties, that makes things fundamentally unfair and less democratic. If we had a TSR news channel which told everyone what we had recently done and everyone watched it then things would be different.

    And ties are enforceable. Stripping names and removing seats if needed.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aph)
    So just posting them here with the end of term and we all know who is standing please make your predictions. The winner gets absonlutely nothing but our respect.

    TORY:13
    LABOUR:12 (-2)
    LIBERAL: 10 (+1)
    UKIP: 8
    SOCIALIST: 3 (+1)
    NAT LIB: 2 (+2)
    GREEN: 2 (-2)

    predictions






















    User TORY: LABOUR: LIBERAL: UKIP: SOCIALIST: NAT LIB: GREEN:
    Aph 13 12 10 8 3 2 2
    Jammy Duel 14 11 6 10 3 1 5
    PetrosAC 13 13 9 7 2 1 5
    jamestg 14 11 8 8 3 2 4
    Little Toy Gun 14 12 10 12 0 0 1
    a noble chance 12 12 7 9 2 4 4
    Lime-man 13 14 6 9 2 1 4
    whiggy 11 15 8 8 3 1 4
    tengentoppa 14 11 7 10 3 2 3
    ChildofTony 13 10 10 9 4 3 1
    Hazzer 14 12 6 9 2 3 2
    Rakas21 12 13 10 7 4 1 3
    Cranbrook_aspie 14 12 9 10 3 0 4
    TheDefinateArticle 13 12 7 11 3 1 3
    Andy98 12 13 9 8 4 1 3
    QuamQuam123 15 14 9 6 1 0 5
    Cbay 14 13 7 6 4 1 5
    Ericateyou 15 13 7 8 4 1 2
    .
    .
    Mean 13 12 8 9 3 2 4

    *mean is a rounded figure hence why it only equals 51*
    Tory: 10
    Labour: 14
    Liberal: 6
    UKIP: 4
    Socialist: 4
    Nat Lib: 0
    Green: 2
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Tory: 10
    Labour: 14
    Liberal: 6
    UKIP: 4
    Socialist: 4
    Nat Lib: 0
    Green: 2
    That's only 40 there mate xD
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    The Irish Labour Party is an example of a different Labour Party. Why shouldn't we be able to model ourselves on them, should be so wish? Or the Aussie Labor Party, or NZ Labour?
    The Irish Labour Party? Please do.
    Here in Ireland the Labour Party is actually properly right-wing, more right wing than the English one ever has been. They're proper traitors of their roots. So left-wing voters all vote for Sinn Féin, Socialist Party and independents.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    That's only 40 there mate xD
    Oh shite

    Tory: 14
    Labour: 16
    Liberal: 7
    UKIP: 6
    Socialist: 4
    Nat Lib: 0
    Green: 3
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Oh shite

    Tory: 14
    Labour: 16
    Liberal: 7
    UKIP: 6
    Socialist: 4
    Nat Lib: 0
    Green: 3
    I don't think Labour will do that well. That's almost a third of the vote!
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Aph)
    And ties are enforceable. Stripping names and removing seats if needed.
    The thing is parties don't produce a constantly-updated full manifesto to compare policies to. There is sometimes doubt about a party's policy on some issues (see Labour and Trident, for example).
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I don't think Labour will do that well. That's almost a third of the vote!
    Maybe a slightly larger split between Labour and the Tories, but the the rest looks good - I'd be happy be with that
    • Very Important Poster
    • Welcome Squad
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    The thing is parties don't produce a constantly-updated full manifesto to compare policies to. There is sometimes doubt about a party's policy on some issues (see Labour and Trident, for example).
    Then a ban on RL names. You can just reform the RED party and use your cool logo.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I wouldnt be so sure. Especially considering that anc didnt include any policies or and positions on anything. It could be safe for the electorate to assume that they are far right.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    This is pretty pathetic stuff.

    Our positions are clearly outlined on the manifesto and I have clarified in this thread that we are centrist and unrelated to any RL party. The major previous NLP in RL was centrist and our centrist placement was elaborately detailed in our induction thread which you repeatedly posted in.

    Either you have a brain like swiss cheese or you are being dishonest, which I would suggest is a better reason not to be elected than fronting an unorthodox manifesto.
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aph)
    Then the point about stupidity remains.

    Yes but we have to recognise that we are a small simulation within a pre-existing political system. IRL when a party does something everyone knows and people vote and join parties based on that. On here when something happens nobody really knows and often bases their judgment on how they perceive RL parties, that makes things fundamentally unfair and less democratic. If we had a TSR news channel which told everyone what we had recently done and everyone watched it then things would be different.

    And ties are enforceable. Stripping names and removing seats if needed.
    Are you in favour of banning parties running in local elections from using the same names as their Westminster branches as well? Because most people who vote in local elections do it based on loyalty to or approval of the national party, rather than what has happened at local level.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by a noble chance)
    This is pretty pathetic stuff.

    Our positions are clearly outlined on the manifesto and I have clarified in this thread that we are centrist and unrelated to any RL party. The major previous NLP in RL was centrist and our centrist placement was elaborately detailed in our induction thread which you repeatedly posted in.

    Either you have a brain like swiss cheese or you are being dishonest, which I would suggest is a better reason not to be elected than fronting an unorthodox manifesto.
    I never even implied in the slightest that your party is far right. I did, however, say that it would be understandable if a voter thought you were.
    • Very Important Poster
    • Welcome Squad
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Are you in favour of banning parties running in local elections from using the same names as their Westminster branches as well? Because most people who vote in local elections do it based on loyalty to or approval of the national party, rather than what has happened at local level.
    not really, because that is a reducto ab absurdum argument which isn't the same principle.
    The primary aim of this simulation is to be a game and to have fun. As such we should try and make things as fair as possible because in a game no one likes it when it's impossible to win based on unfair advantages.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I never even implied in the slightest that your party is far right. I did, however, say that it would be understandable if a voter thought you were.
    What you said was it could be 'safer' for them to assume this. Even if the manifesto is all they read you can't get much further away from fascism than 'constitutional conservatism, social justice and individual liberty'. You are attempting to taint the party through weasel words.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aph)
    not really, because that is a reducto ab absurdum argument which isn't the same principle.
    The primary aim of this simulation is to be a game and to have fun. As such we should try and make things as fair as possible because in a game no one likes it when it's impossible to win based on unfair advantages.
    There's not really much to suggest that the aims of your proposal will actually be achieved though.

    The TSR conservative and unionist Party could change their name to the TSR Tory Party
    The TSR Labour Party could change their name to the TSR UK Labour Party
    The TSR Green Party could change their name to the TSR Green Ecology Party
    and etc.
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aph)
    not really, because that is a reducto ab absurdum argument which isn't the same principle.
    The primary aim of this simulation is to be a game and to have fun. As such we should try and make things as fair as possible because in a game no one likes it when it's impossible to win based on unfair advantages.
    It is fair. No-one is forcing parties to have names that are different from real life.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by a noble chance)
    What you said was it could be 'safer' for them to assume this. Even if the manifesto is all they read you can't get much further away from fascism than 'constitutional conservatism, social justice and individual liberty'. You are attempting to taint the party through weasel words.
    For the last time, I'm not saying that your party is fascist, but I can see why a voter could think that you are.
    • Very Important Poster
    • Welcome Squad
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Lime-man)
    There's not really much to suggest that the aims of your proposal will actually be achieved though.

    The TSR conservative and unionist Party could change their name to the TSR Tory Party
    The TSR Labour Party could change their name to the TSR UK Labour Party
    The TSR Green Party could change their name to the TSR Green Ecology Party
    and etc.
    That's why the wording would have to ban RL likeness so no similar wording at all.
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    It is fair. No-one is forcing parties to have names that are different from real life.
    It isn't fair, labour and the Tories gain a boost they wouldn't get if they had different names. That is an RL impact on the game. If people were just voting for policies and performance then the game would be fair.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.