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Switzerland Suspends Citizenship process for Muslim Family watch

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    (Original post by Reader106)
    I don't understand the big deal- just because they didn't shake a female's hand doesn't mean they can't bring any valuable substance to the world. What were they supposed to do? Integrate into a Western society immediately upon arrival? They clearly were brought up in a conservative Muslim household/society in which gender mixing wasn't their custom. Not everyone was brought up with 'western' customs it's not that big a deal
    Do they need to be Swiss in order to 'bring value'? Their permits will not be withdrawn (I don't see any communal, cantonal or federal authority allowing such a move). They will remain with their Permit C, which gives them near equal status to a national.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    surely shaking hands is a basic sign of respect between two people though. islam shouldn't be interpreted in a way that causes a lack of respect, right? a religion "of peace" shouldn't be like that at all.
    Religion of peace also tells you that there are other ways to show respect, it's sad people don't know this.
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    (Original post by ODES_PDES)
    I did not know that Muslims are not allowed to shake female hands.
    Why?
    In case they pop half a chub.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The Swiss are offended and stopped naturalisation proceedings because some people refused to shake the hand of someone else?

    That's extremely petty and child like.
    I think it is rather a case of "If you want to join a club, you must agree to abide by its rules".

    If I wanted to be able to visit a mosque daily but insisted that I be able to keep my shoes on, would you support my demand? Would the members of the congregation? Should they be obliged to accomodate my demand?
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    (Original post by Anna0987)
    Re-read my post, I didn't say it was backward, it is a clear example of how the West do not have it right all the time. That's my point, she is exercising choice, a choice that the majority would disagree with, a choice nonetheless. She is not hurting anyone? I think she is clearly hurting the basic principles of morality, not something I want my children to grow up seeing.

    Freedom of choice applies across the board.

    You've misunderstood my post in that the point i am making is individual choices and differences make the world what it is, we should appreciate and not dictate what is acceptable based on the human development index which was produced by the West in any event. "Here's a stat we created to prove we know it all".

    Go and research how many Human Rights infringements the West is being investigated for by Human Rights Watch to get an idea of exactly how progressive the West is.
    I do not think the West is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but my view is that it generally leads on social progressiveness in terms of gay rights, equality laws for women and minorities, etc.

    I don't see how a woman showing a bit of skin can be described as "hurting the basic principles of morality". There is nothing wrong with the human body. It may look tasteless and vulgar in terms of appearance, but I wouldn't describe it as immoral.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Religion of peace also tells you that there are other ways to show respect, it's sad people don't know this.
    1) what's wrong with handshakes? what about cultural assimilation?
    2) what other ways?
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    This is so stupid honestly.
    The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.
    And if they can't even touch the hand of a female teacher, as a child, what does that say about their future ability to integrate and interact with the society that they are attempting to gain membership of?

    I do not support any kind of blanket immigration controls, but I am in favour of having certain, basic standards. Saying "I have been brought up to consider women as something socially suspect, and on questioning, confirm these views as non negotiable", fails to measure up.
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    (Original post by ODES_PDES)
    I did not know that Muslims are not allowed to shake female hands.
    Why?
    Most Muslims would not have a problem with it. The behaviour displayed is indicative of "extremist" views.
    It is basically saying "I reject the values of your society in favour of an extreme interpretation of a medieval ideology". For those that insist on taking such a position, there are more suitable countries to which to apply for citizenship.
    (I can't believe I'm saying this. I think I might have to take out a subscription to the Daily Heil)
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    what's wrong with handshakes? what about cultural assimilation?
    These are values that date from centuries ago when the region was in a constant state of flux and women were seen as second (perhaps even third) tier citizens. This was not simply the case in 'Arabia'.
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    As a muslim woman I do not make skin to skin contact with those of the opposite gender, simply because I would like to follow my religion which I hold in high regards as opposed to integrating into British society.

    However, one must understand that integration does not equate to imitation, I am not willing to compromise my religion to appease and be accepted.This rule applies to both men and women in Islam.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    1) what's wrong with handshakes? what about cultural assimilation?
    2) what other ways?
    You can give gifts, be polite in speech etc.
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    (Original post by JoeTSR)
    Question. If someone who had OCD, with panic attacks when touching someone else's hand and had to scrub the skin raw afterwards, requested nicely to avoid shaking hands, would that be a reasonable reason to halt naturalisation in the opinions of the 'kick them out' people?

    Just curious as to where the line's drawn.
    In such a case, if it was demonstrably a clinical issue, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

    The difference is, these two refused to touch a woman because they follow an extreme interpretation of a medieval ideology. It is a ifestyle choice, not a medical complaint (although that could be debatable!)
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    (Original post by QE2)
    And if they can't even touch the hand of a female teacher, as a child, what does that say about their future ability to integrate and interact with the society that they are attempting to gain membership of?

    I do not support any kind of blanket immigration controls, but I am in favour of having certain, basic standards. Saying "I have been brought up to consider women as something socially suspect, and on questioning, confirm these views as non negotiable", fails to measure up.
    You don't need to touch the hand of the opposite gender to integrate.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    You can give gifts, be polite in speech etc.
    and what about my first question?
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    Petty by both sides imo.

    a) just shake hands and get on with it
    b) accept your hand hasn't been shaken and get on with it

    Honestly :banghead:
    Not really.

    "Hi, I want to join your private members' club"
    "Sure, these are the rules and this is what we do"
    "Ah, yes. I'm not happy with all of it and I think I will ignore some of it, but I still want to join"
    "Perhaps not. Thanks for your interest anyway. Good day."
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    The motto of those content with ignorance, in a nutshell.



    The Swiss authorities haven't done any of that. Moreover, I think you'll find that calling somebody 'gay' as an insult is more commonly done by Muslims than to them.



    Funnily enough, this is exactly the sort of thing that happens in many Muslim-majority countries. It's simply accepted as the way things are; people don't go over there and throw tantrums when the authorities don't cater to their every whim.



    This is whataboutery, pure and simple.
    sterotypes....bloody hell. i dont go round calling people gay, and yeah i know gay people, i work with gay people, but i have never ever been homophobic- so tell me where you found that muslims go round calling people gay.

    and im mot talking about the swiss, but more about the people on this thread and people in public mate
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    You don't need to touch the hand of the opposite gender to integrate.
    But you do need to accept that it is reasonable to do it.
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    (Original post by sfaraj)
    sterotypes....bloody hell. i dont go round calling people gay, and yeah i know gay people, i work with gay people, but i have never ever been homophobic-
    Your reading comprehension could be improved. :moon: I didn't say that you personally use 'gay' as a pejorative, just that your assertion that Muslims are derogatorily referred to as such is false. I have simply said that it is more commonly done by Muslims than to them.

    so tell me where you found that muslims go round calling people gay.
    I didn't say this. :rolleyes: In any case, why don't you tell me where you found that Muslims are accused of homosexuality as an insult?

    and im mot talking about the swiss, but more about the people on this thread and people in public mate
    Well, then, start talking about the Swiss. This thread is discussing this specific case. Don't say moronic things and then try to justify them by claiming that you were talking generally. (And even if you were, your claim would still be false.)
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    (Original post by QE2)
    In such a case, if it was demonstrably a clinical issue, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

    The difference is, these two refused to touch a woman because they follow an extreme interpretation of a medieval ideology. It is a ifestyle choice, not a medical complaint (although that could be debatable!)

    Nothing to do with women, you’re probably, most likely, not even a feminist.
    Stop hiding behind this facade of ‘female solidarity’ and using it as a weapon.This rule, as I’ve mentioned before, applies to both genders not exclusively men.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Sure it's their rules. Even if it's a ridiculous and absurd one they still have that right to refuse citizenship.
    Yes almost as rediculous as forbidding someone to shake hands.
 
 
 
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