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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Why do you have to be religious or even believe in a personal God. Deism can still work with evolution.
    Well maybe but I would say he/she has no purpose, if everything evolved then why does he need to be there in the first place? You are free to believe in what you like but I meant that evolution reinforces my lack of belief in God.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    You both just defeated your points. Religious people decline to accept that Earth was created without a "Creator". If Earth necessarily needed a creator, what makes you think God does not have s creator himself - and so on?

    Also, do people actually think that Earth was created 6000 years ago, and God spoke words which materialised? Doesn't sound like someone's imagination at all :rolleyes:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Not defeated. Under the laws of physics the causation argument applies: everything in the universe had a cause and hence the universe did too. If God is outside time and space (where physics works) then He doesn't need a creator.

    Secondly, I have no idea why you brought religion into it when you can believe in a God without one, hence irrelevant. I'm not Christian but... they don't believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Well I believe they are. No religion out there mentions evolution, you may get some clever theologian to come along and say God created evolution I would say that is merely back tracking after they have been caught out. All religions say God created everything so the scientific fact of evolution directly contradicts that.
    To be incredibly pedantic about it, that would only mean that the major world religions are incompatible with evolution. It's still possible to be a deist, which would mean that one credits the argument from design, but is an agnostic in all other respects (i.e. one doesn't claim to know the mind of God, what he wants people to eat, drink, wear, etc.).

    (Original post by ShiawaseNekox3)
    Yes, I believe in God... why?
    The OP explained why:

    (Original post by Aaron2515)
    Hello, this question is open to everyone and basically wondering people's views if they believe in a God/creator or of different faith or agnostic or atheist etc and also why you believe in what you believe in! This for RS views which will be most helpful. Thank you
    (Original post by Aaron2515)
    Thank you all! For your comments - really interesting. I myself am a Christian and do believe in a God. But in the end if there is no God (which I don't believe to be true) then, it's not like we missed out cause we won't no any better would we cause we would be dead. But if there is a God and people haven chosen ignore him then, it could possibly result in no afterlife or in medieval teaching - eternal damnation. Also another belief which I have found interesting is the concept that maybe Muslims, Christians and other faiths of monotheism are believing in the same God. That maybe in the end if there is a God he is the same for us all and there is no separate heavan etc and afterlife but rather it was taught differently to different people so that they can understand. But we may find out one day!!
    I notice that you've edited this in. What you've used there is Pascal's Wager, and it's much too problematic to be a strong justification for belief. It's not a simple god/no god dichotomy. There are many gods in current circulation, most of whom insist that worshipping any other god but them is a grave offence punishable by all manner of torture and eternal suffering. So it's not quite so easy to hedge your bets by choosing Christianity over atheism/agnosticism -- what if one of the Norse gods is the real one?
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    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    The same way you can see your parents love you by their actions I can see that God is real through miracles and unexplainable things.
    well maybe but that is a different concept. You could say both are superstitions love may be a superstition (I am willing to accept that). But are you willing to suspect that God maybe a superstition?. I suspect not.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Well maybe but I would say he/she has no purpose, if everything evolved then why does he need to be there in the first place? You are free to believe in what you like but I meant that evolution reinforces my lack of belief in God.
    It might bring down the idea of a personal God. Point being, evolution doesn't bring down the idea of a deity creating the universe.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I'm not Christian but... they don't believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago.
    Depends on the kind of Christian. Most of them don't, but you wouldn't be hard-pressed to find incredibly pseudoscientific views about the age of the Earth in some of the least educated parts of the Deep South.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Depends on the kind of Christian. Most of them don't, but you wouldn't be hard-pressed to find incredibly pseudoscientific views about the age of the Earth in some of the least educated parts of the Deep South.
    From what I read, the bible indicates the human race is 6000 years old (still crazy I know), but nothing about the Earth.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No, don't be moving the goalposts now. Your initial comment was that there are plenty of things for which there is NO evidence, not that there are things most of us haven't seen which we know to be true. There IS evidence for the Earth going round the sun which comes from the known natural laws.

    While you may not have read the scientific evidence, it's still there, that's the point. If you wanted to you could go and read the proofs for all of these things and do the necessary experiments in the lab. So you not having bothered to read the evidence for yourself doesn't mean it isn't there.

    There is, however, not an iota of scientific or empirical evidence for a god's existence.
    You're right there is actual proof of these things. However, discoveries are being mad everyday and until you can show me the proof that God is not real I will continue as I do.

    Unless you have tangible evidence that God is not real, Jesus never died on the cross, Moses never freed the children of Israel etc. I would't dare try to rule out Gods existence.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Not defeated. Under the laws of physics the causation argument applies: everything in the universe had a cause and hence the universe did too. If God is outside time and space (where physics works) then He doesn't need a creator.

    Secondly, I have no idea why you brought religion into it when you can believe in a God without one, hence irrelevant. I'm not Christian but... they don't believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago.
    See? Condition after condition. "If"s all over the place. "If that is true, and if that is true, it follows that that is true if we base it on that". Sorry for not being convinced after this array of fallacies.

    Are you being serious now? The vast majority of God-believers "belong" in a religion - to argue that this becomes irrelevant because of the random person believing in a deity but not being part of a religion is, frankly, nonsensical.
    That would imply that the Bible is wrong, so yeah - everything comes back to my original argument.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    You're right there is actual proof of these things. However, discoveries are being mad everyday and until you can show me the proof that God is not real I will continue as I do.

    Unless you have tangible evidence that God is not real, Jesus never died on the cross, Moses never freed the children of Israel etc. I would't dare try to rule out Gods existence.
    That's not how the burden of proof works, it's up to the person making the extraordinary claim to provide the evidence, not up to sceptics to disprove it.

    Jesus and Moses probably did exist, that however doesn't prove Jesus actually performed miracles and that he was divine.
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    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    Unless you have tangible evidence that God is not real, Jesus never died on the cross, Moses never freed the children of Israel etc. I would't dare try to rule out Gods existence.
    Why are these things proof of the existence and divinity of the Christian god, specifically? Not everyone who died on a cross is a god, you know. It was a standard punishment at that time in that part of the world.

    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    From what I read, the bible indicates the human race is 6000 years old (still crazy I know), but nothing about the Earth.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_...ons_of_Genesis

    Enjoy the slow death of your grey matter.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    See? Condition after condition. "If"s all over the place. "If that is true, and if that is true, it follows that that is true if base it on that". Sorry for not being convinced after this array of fallacies.

    Are you being serious now? The vast majority of God-believers "belong" in a religion - to argue that this becomes irrelevant because of the random person believing in a deity but not being part of a religion is, frankly, nonsensical.
    That would imply that the Bible is wrong, so yeah - everything comes back to my original argument.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    That wasn't a condition. "If" was used to put things into perspective to better explain my point. Alright, what if I said: "God is outside the universe before he created it, before Time and Space existed, hence the law of causation didn't apply due to no laws of physics being evident." Same thing mate.

    Yes, I'm being serious. You're basically saying defeating religion defeats deism. I said nothing about a personal God. God could be thought of as something that just started things. Einstein hated the idea of a personal God but thought the belief on a non-personal deity was needed to explain the universe. Suddenly, according to your logic, Einstein was false simply because religion was false.

    The bible doesn't say the Earth was made 6000 years ago. If you have proof link it.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    well maybe but that is a different concept. You could say both are superstitions love may be a superstition (I am willing to accept that). But are you willing to suspect that God maybe a superstition?. I suspect not.
    But God isn't a superstition.

    If you're so sure that God is not real explain how/ who creates gravity.

    “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.” - Stephen Hawkin
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    they don't believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I never get soft. Never.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    :sexface:
    I forsaw this joke.

    Your reassurance on the matter is appreciated, though.

    Can't you deduce that from the :cry: emoji? :holmes:
    Touche. :holmes:

    On the advice of counsel, I would like to exercise my Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. :pierre:


    I take my slight compliment back. This is why you can't have nice things. :noway:

    Spoiler:
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    I can't remember the last time you went this long without repping me. :sigh: The absence of that 'ten' has been very much noted. :sad:


    You don't have a fax machine?! :eek3:
    I can't tell whether you're joking or you genuinely find it abnormal I don't have a fax machine. :lolwut:
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    That's not how the burden of proof works, it's up to the person making the extraordinary claim to provide the evidence, not up to sceptics to disprove it.
    Tell me where it says that.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So people who believe in God don't sin?
    no. everyone sins, those who believe in God just try not to.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_...ons_of_Genesis

    Enjoy the slow death of your grey matter.
    http://www.creationtips.com/earthsage.html

    As far as I can see, this is only the case if humans were made immediately after the Earth.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    You both just defeated your points. Religious people decline to accept that Earth was created without a "Creator". If Earth necessarily needed a creator, what makes you think God does not have s creator himself - and so on?

    Also, do people actually think that Earth was created 6000 years ago, and God spoke words which materialised? Doesn't sound like someone's imagination at all :rolleyes:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    not really
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    God debates are so fun! :banana:
 
 
 
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