Should european women dress modestly to accommodate other cultures? Watch

Poll: Should they dress modestly?
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No (194)
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Yazooo
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#121
No of course not. But I've never heard of a large majority of people suggesting they should in the first place? Sounds to me like some people are trying hard to be offended over nothing.
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brainhuman
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#122
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#122
(Original post by Mona-S)
Muslims are followers of Islam. You said 'the problem is Islam' and 'its followers (meaning Muslims) are largely unwilling to adapt' which means yes you did generalise.

'Islam just happens to be the most dangerous' - Nope, Islam just happens to be in the media a lot.
Why are you lying?

Generalizing would have been "Muslims are dangerous". It would mean I implied all of them are dangerous. I did no such thing. In fact I gave all Muslims a huge benefit of the doubt, that most probably don't deserve. Because even the "moderate" ones, tend to have world views that are incompatible with ours.

And again, why are you lying to yourself? The causality is not Islam is in the media hence they are most dangerous because of perception, it's it is so dangerous hence it is in the media a lot. Watch Hitchens, he is equally critical of all religion, but he too, believes Islam to be the most dangerous.

If you cannot see that, then you are either Muslim or completely misguided in your tolerance.

Karl Popper: "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Do not believe for one second that we need to accept Islam, the way it is now, into our society or else we are bad, intolerant people. No.

(Original post by Youngmetro)
Yeah, that QE2 guy was quick to jump to my throat without considering my argument. Then again, his anti islam agenda has made him like that, the moment i say that ppl can do more themselves.
I have seen you post a lot, and usually agree with you. But you are completely wrong about Islam. Read the Karl Popper quote. There is no reason we should be tolerant of Islam.
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TheManHimeself
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#123
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#123
No one should change the way the are just to fit in with soceity.Howver it is not apporaite to go the middle ease and walk around nude.That is if u value your life.Why does anyone go the middle east?There are so many great place in the world but you want to go Dubai.Nah i am good here.
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QE2
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#124
(Original post by Youngmetro)
I already said how superficial you were haha! All talk but no real substance in what you say.
Nope, you just dont have the mental capacity to understand what im saying. All you have done is provide a weak argument, others at least have the brains to understand but you dont. You're just too simple minded, time and time again you prove how much of a blithering idiot you are.
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Plantagenet Crown
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(Original post by Mona-S)
Muslims are followers of Islam, so if Islam was a vile religion then Muslims would be vile people. But as you said 'Muslims are lovely beautiful people' so they must be following a beautiful religion.
False. Thankfully most Muslims don't take a lot of Islam seriously, but that doesn't mean that Islam in and of itself isn't a vile ideology because it is. Just like I'm sure there were some Nazis who were lovely, kind people despite the nastiness of Naziism.
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EUTyranny
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#126
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#126
No
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QE2
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#127
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#127
(Original post by Mona-S)
Muslims are followers of Islam, so if Islam was a vile religion then Muslims would be vile people. But as you said 'Muslims are lovely beautiful people' so they must be following a beautiful religion.
This agument is often used, and is fundamentally flawed because it assumes that there is only one interpretation of Islam, and that every Muslim thinks the same way and has the same social and cultural influences. (They don't BTW).

All Muslims follow a version of Islam that is based on cherry-picking the ideology to suit their personality and agenda. As most humans are ultimately guided by their innate empathy and humanity, most Muslims cherry-pick an interpretation of Islam that corresponds to this - hence their quotes from the Quran and sunnah are the ones about peace and tolerance.
However, there are some who have a different agenda, for whatever reason, and they cherry-pick the violent and intolerant passages that suit their agenda.

The problem is that, by its nature, Islam allows violent and intolerant people to justify their adtions with divine permission. ISIS's use of captive females as sex slaves is a perfect example. To most people, including most Muslims, it is an abhorrent practice. However, it is divinely permitted in the Quran and sunnah, so it is hard for those who claim the Quran to be perfect, universal and immutable, and Muhammad's example to be perfect and timeless, to condemn such practices without appearing to condemn Allah and his prophet. So we have the situation where most Muslims (if they are even aware of those passages), despite their natural empathy and humanity, attempt to defend, justify or contextualise the practice of sex slavery.

I have discussed this issue here and elsewhere countless times, and I cannot remember a single instance of a Muslim unequivocally and unreservedly condemning the ownership of another human as property, regardless of context.
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Mona-S
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#128
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#128
(Original post by brainhuman)
Why are you lying?

Generalizing would have been "Muslims are dangerous". It would mean I implied all of them are dangerous. I did no such thing. In fact I gave all Muslims a huge benefit of the doubt, that most probably don't deserve. Because even the "moderate" ones, tend to have world views that are incompatible with ours.

And again, why are you lying to yourself? The causality is not Islam is in the media hence they are most dangerous because of perception, it's it is so dangerous hence it is in the media a lot. Watch Hitchens, he is equally critical of all religion, but he too, believes Islam to be the most dangerous.

If you cannot see that, then you are either Muslim or completely misguided in your tolerance.

Karl Popper: "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Do not believe for one second that we need to accept Islam, the way it is now, into our society or else we are bad, intolerant people. No.
‘I gave all Muslims a hugebenefit of the doubt’ – oh wow thank you so much, that’s so kind of you to give 1.6 billion Muslims the benefit of the doubt.

‘He is equally critical of all religion, but he too,believes Islam to be the most dangerous’ – I do not care what Hitchens' says or what any other critique says. That is their job.

‘Do not believe for one second that we need to accept Islam,the way it is now’ – There is nothing wrong with the way Islam is now, the problem is not Islam, the problem are Muslims who decide to interpret Islam the way they want to interpret it.
If you agree that there are good Muslims in this world, then you must surely agree that some parts of Islam are peaceful.
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BaconandSauce
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#129
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#129
(Original post by Mona-S)
If you agree that there are good Muslims in this world, then you must surely agree that some parts of Islam are peaceful.
There are good muslims despite Islam not because of it

as a different poster has already stated

'All Muslims follow a version of Islam that is based on cherry-picking the ideology to suit their personality and agenda. As most humans are ultimately guided by their innate empathy and humanity, most Muslims cherry-pick an interpretation of Islam that corresponds to this - hence their quotes from the Quran and sunnah are the ones about peace and tolerance.
However, there are some who have a different agenda, for whatever reason, and they cherry-pick the violent and intolerant passages that suit their agenda.'
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QE2
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#130
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#130
(Original post by HAnwar)
We already know where this thread is going.
(Original post by QE2)
Do you think that the way a woman dresses makes her, in any way at all, responsible if she suffers any kind of sexual assault? Yes or no.

The fact that you (and others) will either obfuscate or completely avoid answering is part of the reason why these threads keep popping up.
I notice that you seem to have forgotten about this.
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QE2
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#131
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#131
(Original post by Mona-S)
‘There is nothing wrong with the way Islam is now, the problem is not Islam, the problem are Muslims who decide to interpret Islam the way they want to interpret it.
This is just the tired old NRA argument...
"The problem is not guns, the problem is people who decide to use guns to kill people".

If you agree that there are good Muslims in this world, then you must surely agree that some parts of Islam are peaceful.
Yes, but they are cherry-picking the peaceful parts because they are peaceful people.
Violent people will cherry-pick the violent parts.
If there were no violent parts, the violent people would have do divine permission to justify their actions, so they would either not commit violent acts, or just be "violent people", and treated as such.
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brainhuman
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(Original post by Mona-S)
‘I gave all Muslims a hugebenefit of the doubt’ – oh wow thank you so much, that’s so kind of you to give 1.6 billion Muslims the benefit of the doubt.

‘He is equally critical of all religion, but he too,believes Islam to be the most dangerous’ – I do not care what Hitchens' says or what any other critique says. That is their job.

‘Do not believe for one second that we need to accept Islam,the way it is now’ – There is nothing wrong with the way Islam is now, the problem is not Islam, the problem are Muslims who decide to interpret Islam the way they want to interpret it.
If you agree that there are good Muslims in this world, then you must surely agree that some parts of Islam are peaceful.
Some parts of national socialism were peaceful. What a nice argument.

Some parts of Maoism were peaceful. And still tens of millions died due to starvation or being deemed against the system.

And yes, a follower of a book that talks about raping young women, and portraying women as second class citizens and non-believers as inhuman, yea, not saying they are all nutters, means giving them a huge benefit of the doubt.

I am sorry but I cannot continue arguing with someone who makes such statements. Every time I reply to you, I have to waste my time just correcting your logic flaws.

This is what is wrong with religious people. They can't win arguments. And yet they try and more annoyingly they think they do. Logic and reason means they cannot win. Every single argument you could put forward is based on faith and faith alone.
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Mona-S
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(Original post by QE2)
I notice that you seem to have forgotten about this.
As a Muslim I don't think a woman is responsible if she suffers any kind of sexual assault from the way she is dressed. If that was the case, rapes wouldn't exist in Muslim countries but they do, because of uneducated filthy men.

(Original post by QE2)
Yes, but they are cherry-picking the peaceful parts because they are peaceful people.
Violent people will cherry-pick the violent parts.
If there were no violent parts, the violent people would have do divine permission to justify their actions, so they would either not commit violent acts, or just be "violent people", and treated as such.
So why don't you see Islam through the peaceful Muslims, why can't you argue that the peaceful Muslims are the real followers of Islam and the violent people are crazy people who are using Islam to justify their actions, not because there are violent parts in Islam, but just because they are crazy.
For example, some people do join the army because they enjoy killing and murdering people and probably have some mental health problems. Now that army is there to protect to it's land, should we abolish the army because of those crazy individuals? No, we should get rid of those crazy individuals. (Does that make sense)
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Mona-S
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(Original post by brainhuman)
Some parts of national socialism were peaceful. What a nice argument.

Some parts of Maoism were peaceful. And still tens of millions died due to starvation or being deemed against the system.

And yes, a follower of a book that talks about raping young women, and portraying women as second class citizens and non-believers as inhuman, yea, not saying they are all nutters, means giving them a huge benefit of the doubt.

I am sorry but I cannot continue arguing with someone who makes such statements. Every time I reply to you, I have to waste my time just correcting your logic flaws.

This is what is wrong with religious people. They can't win arguments. And yet they try and more annoyingly they think they do. Logic and reason means they cannot win. Every single argument you could put forward is based on faith and faith alone.
Sorry I can't help but laugh, I don't understand why you're getting mad. We're just discussing.
And LOL, we are discussing faith, so of course my arguments are going to be about faith.
There is no such thing as winning in arguments, we're not in a competition, you gave your opinions and I gave mine. That's the problem with you, you're trying to win, I'm just trying to tell you my thoughts.
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brainhuman
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(Original post by Mona-S)
Sorry I can't help but laugh, I don't understand why you're getting mad. We're just discussing.
And LOL, we are discussing faith, so of course my arguments are going to be about faith.
There is no such thing as winning in arguments, we're not in a competition, you gave your opinions and I gave mine. That's the problem with you, you're trying to win, I'm just trying to tell you my thoughts.
But what you are saying is plain wrong. I have pointed that out numerous times, and you are not just giving your opinion.

You are trying to make a case why I am wrong. Don't even deny that.
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RomanKing
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(Original post by Erebor)
Italy :



Germany :

http://www.thelocal.de/20150626/refu...niform-modesty

''A school in Bavaria has sent a letter home to parents warning them not to let their daughters wear revealing blouses or short skirts, because emergency accommodation for refugees has been set up next to the gym''


Cliffs: men from other cultures can't help themselves if they see a woman showing skin or even curves under tight clothing so if a woman gets harassed/raped/worse it's pretty much her fault since men can't help themselves.
NO. Women, like everyone else should dress however the hell they want.

I'm going to Saudi Arabia in the summer.
Should they accommodate for a european like me and open up nice little bars, pubs and clubs so we feel more comfortable?

Answer me.
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Mona-S
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(Original post by brainhuman)
But what you are saying is plain wrong. I have pointed that out numerous times, and you are not just giving your opinion.

You are trying to make a case why I am wrong. Don't even deny that.
No, you are trying to show that I am wrong, as you have pointed out yourself.

I just want to understand where you're coming from. I don't understand how people can be so judgmental sometimes. I believe I am open minded, as long as you don't annoy me, you can believe what ever you want to believe.

And I really want to close this discussion because I want to go to study. So let's agree to disagree?
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RomanKing
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(Original post by Mona-S)
No, you are trying to show that I am wrong, as you have pointed out yourself.

I just want to understand where you're coming from. I don't understand how people can be so judgmental sometimes. I believe I am open minded, as long as you don't annoy me, you can believe what ever you want to believe.

And I really want to close this discussion because I want to go to study. So let's agree to disagree?

What you studying? I need to do some studying for friday exam.
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QE2
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(Original post by Mona-S)
As a Muslim I don't think a woman is responsible if she suffers any kind of sexual assault from the way she is dressed. If that was the case, rapes wouldn't exist in Muslim countries but they do, because of uneducated filthy men.
I agree.

So why don't you see Islam through the peaceful Muslims, why can't you argue that the peaceful Muslims are the real followers of Islam and the violent people are crazy people who are using Islam to justify their actions, not because there are violent parts in Islam, but just because they are crazy.
By this logic, peaceful Muslims are peaceful because they are peaceful people who are just using Islam to justify their actions - which is kinda waht I was saying.

For example, some people do join the army because they enjoy killing and murdering people and probably have some mental health problems. Now that army is there to protect to it's land, should we abolish the army because of those crazy individuals? No, we should get rid of those crazy individuals. (Does that make sense)
Not really. Most people who join the army will never see action, let alone kill someone. A muderous psychopath would more than likely be weeded out during psychometric tests (or moved into Black Ops!)
The other thing is that the rules and regulations of the armed forces are rigid and well defined, even as far as how armed contact should be conducted. It does not have contradiction and ambiguity.
Also, no one is saying that Islam should be abolished. It just needs a reformation/enlightenment to make it compatible with modern societies. Look at Christianity now compared to what it was like 400 years ago!
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Betelgeuse-
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Thread got me tripping
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