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    (Original post by TenthBelt1993)
    I think this is complete bs.. I went to Oxford and studied Maths (and got an excellent grade) and I know quite literally nothing about my degree/my subject, nor is it of any use to me.

    I can't even comprehend how little less academic degrees would 'educate' anyone.

    In this country most people just see university as a chance to go and get pissed up on the government for a few years.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

    anecdotal

    You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.

    It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality.

    Example: Jason said that that was all cool and everything, but his grandfather smoked, like, 30 cigarettes a day and lived until 97 - so don't believe everything you read about meta analyses of methodologically sound studies showing proven causal relationships.
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    The reason why its not a logical fallacy is:

    I went to one of the best academic institutions in the country doing one of the most academic subjects, as such almost all other degrees are way less rigorous/academic.

    Even accounting for me being one person, the fact that there are so many degrees that are probably 5% as academic as mine allows my point to be valid.

    (Plus almost all people I know who graduated from oxford [and other top universities] feel exactly the same)
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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    what's wrong with wanting to get an education without having to pay for it?

    You know, some of us aren't so loaded that we could easily splash out on degrees.

    I have a friend who's absolutely desperate to go to university but she worries she can't because she might not be able to afford it.

    And what, you like the fact that the poorer people would be excluded from unis? Even if they have the sheer intelligence to be able to go to one?
    Lies

    You're just lying, stop it.

    My family are in huge debt, I have not a single penny to my name. But guess what, I'm still going to University.

    Want to know why? Because I know that if I work hard enough it is beyond worth my time, and it's exactly the same for everyone else.

    The only problem is that everyone else is lazy and doesn't put the effort in so claims costs are holding them back when in reality it's their grades.
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    Lies

    You're just lying, stop it.

    My family are in huge debt, I have not a single penny to my name. But guess what, I'm still going to University.

    Want to know why? Because I know that if I work hard enough it is beyond worth my time, and it's exactly the same for everyone else.

    The only problem is that everyone else is lazy and doesn't put the effort in so claims costs are holding them back when in reality it's their grades.
    We'll see if you're still saying that once you've graduated.
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    (Original post by TenthBelt1993)
    The reason why its not a logical fallacy is:

    I went to one of the best academic institutions in the country doing one of the most academic subjects, as such almost all other degrees are way less rigorous/academic.

    Even accounting for me being one person, the fact that there are so many degrees that are probably 5% as academic as mine allows my point to be valid.
    Your anecdote is not an anecdote because you went to a good university and because your course was academically rigorous...?

    (Original post by TenthBelt1993)
    (Plus almost all people I know who graduated from oxford [and other top universities] feel exactly the same)

    https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...Generalization
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    I hope they uncap them completely just so I can bathe in the student left's tears.
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    It isn't worth going already, in the information age this is an incredibly stupid policy which will probably kill the industry in the long term.
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    (Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob)
    It isn't worth going already, in the information age this is an incredibly stupid policy which will probably kill the industry in the long term.
    Yeah, as witness the crumbling US university sector. Such woes has the market wrought there.
    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    what's wrong with wanting to get an education without having to pay for it?You know, some of us aren't so loaded that we could easily splash out on degrees.I have a friend who's absolutely desperate to go to university but she worries she can't because she might not be able to afford it.And what, you like the fact that the poorer people would be excluded from unis? Even if they have the sheer intelligence to be able to go to one?
    There's nothing wrong with wanting a sports car or a manor house without having to pay for it. That doesn't mean you're going to get it, or even that you should.

    Your friend ought to google it. She'll likely find out that she will of course be able to afford it, by way of generous, taxpayer-funded loans.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yeah, as witness the crumbling US university sector. Such woes has the market wrought there.
    You sound like a raging Thatcherite so I don't see why you don't get my argument, an increasing technology market and third party education should see a significant decline in traditional means of learning in the future, especially if it is not going to be affordable for most people.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)

    I don't know why you seem to doubt this, a rise in price will lead to a fall in demand.
    He doubts it, because it is not universally true. There are goods, Veblen Goods and Giffen Goods where demand rises as the price rises. There is an increasing suspicion that higher education is a Veblen Good
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    He doubts it, because it is not universally true. There are goods, Veblen Goods and Giffen Goods where demand rises as the price rises. There is an increasing suspicion that higher education is a Veblen Good
    Having read what a Veblen Good is it's ironic that anyone stupid enough to be prey to these should invest in education. They need it at least.
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    (Original post by J'zargo)
    I tend to agree, provided that the money is truly being spent on raising education standards. I mean at the end of the day it's called further education and we choose to do it for our own personal gain so I guess it's fair that we pay for it ourselves.
    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Not against the concept in the slightest. Higher education funding has to come from somewhere so it's probably for the best if it's seen that graduates are taking that burden. Try telling that to self-entitled students though.
    Don't agree with the corporate for-profit universities though, but hey ho if there's a demand...
    J'zargo has hit the nail on the head - if the entire increase goes directly towards teaching, then I think it's a proposal that's worth considering. If, however, it's not used for this, I don't think that it's fair to expect students to paid even higher fees.
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    (Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob)
    You sound like a raging Thatcherite so I don't see why you don't get my argument, an increasing technology market and third party education should see a significant decline in traditional means of learning in the future, especially if it is not going to be affordable for most people.
    I made the point above: it is affordable for most people, and that isn't going to change.

    Nor do I see any particular problem with competition and innovation in the higher education sector. If the market could provide a better alternative to university education for some proportion of students that would be great.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    J'zargo has hit the nail on the head - if the entire increase goes directly towards teaching, then I think it's a proposal that's worth considering. If, however, it's not used for this, I don't think that it's fair to expect students to paid even higher fees.
    I don't think fairness is of much interest to many of them, teaching already has significant issues with contact time, to raise the price without some adjustment would be taking people for fools, but I suppose they know their market quite well.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    There's nothing wrong with wanting a sports car or a manor house without having to pay for it. That doesn't mean you're going to get it, or even that you should
    It has already been explained multiple times that they already do pay for it. I guess it's just easier to ignore the arguments which you cannot refute.
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    (Original post by bob5124)
    It has already been explained multiple times that they already do pay for it. I guess it's just easier to ignore the arguments which you cannot refute.
    I responded directly to the following comment:

    what's wrong with wanting to get an education without having to pay for it?
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    Just charge Non-English students more, simple.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Just charge Non-English students more, simple.
    I suppose by "Non-English" you mean International students rather than the kids from Abergavenny, Antrim and Arbroath, but wouldn't it make better sense to charge the international students less than at present?
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    Most people won't pay off the £9k so increasing the money is arbitrary at best. all it will do it increase the amount the government pays to unis and people won't be hit by it.
    Also, either this will go into teaching/research which is good but will mean that the unis who can't get the money and who need to improve don't get the funds to do so; or it just goes to the bosses of the uni in which case it is the government giving rich people more money which isn't worth it.
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    Honestly, this isn't putting me off going to university, but surely this means that the government will be even more out of pocket due to the sheer number of students that will not be able to pay off the loan...

    As for the idea of raising entry requirements, maybe this is necessary for prestigious universities, but why should the opportunity of higher education be ripped away by the people who may not be as academically minded as others but can perform their chosen job just as efficiently given the right education. As someone who has more average grades than the typical A grader, I can say that I work extremely hard but when it comes to an exam, I have trouble maintaining information, but on the practical side of things I excel, there are people like me that are failed by this system and if entry requirements are significantly raised for every university then who the hell will have a chance.

    I can't say I'm very politically minded so I do apologise if I have any facts wrong...
 
 
 
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