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    (Original post by Trumpo Trumpu)
    Its not our problem thousands are suffering the fact is if America never armed isis they would of imploded by now
    This is factually flawed, and irrelevant.

    By helping the refugees, moreover, we help minimise potential radicalisation of suffering people, and make ISIS weaker.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    This is factually flawed, and irrelevant.

    By helping the refugees, moreover, we help minimise potential radicalisation of suffering people, and make ISIS weaker.
    What I do nkt get is people whk want to tale refugees do not want to let them go back when the war is over
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    When you say "EU in their favor" - UK is part of the EU, hence you just said it's in the favor of the UK.
    are we really as if we are then...
    why don't we have the euro?
    why don't we follow the education system they use?
    and the eu is basically just germany with occasional appearances from france
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    (Original post by Bushido Brown)
    Special snowflake... You have more in common with harvey price mate.
    i don't use that to my advantage i use the address book of violent criminals in my pocket
    hell my family can play spot the different using crimewatch
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    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    are we really as if we are then...
    why don't we have the euro?
    why don't we follow the education system they use?
    and the eu is basically just germany with occasional appearances from france
    Ahhhh so that is what it's all about.

    Ze Germans control it all.

    smh
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Ahhhh so that is what it's all about.

    Ze Germans control it all.

    smh
    any analyst even the yanks say as much
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    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    any analyst even the yanks say as much
    The Tories control the UK atm, does that mean its reason for all Labors to get out?

    And do you think that if you can't even be heard as much as you want as part of the EU, that suddenly leaving your voice will be heard more?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    The Tories control the UK atm, does that mean its reason for all Labors to get out?

    And do you think that if you can't even be heard as much as you want as part of the EU, that suddenly leaving your voice will be heard more?
    We can elect a labour government at the next GE - we can't elect a new European Commission. Ever.
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    Well, obviously if we are not in the EU then we would be able to negotiate our own trade deals. I'm not sure that this in itself means that we'd do better deals.

    As to the state aid thing. The EU does not bar state aid, that's a line that UK government's spin up from time to time to give themselves an excuse to do nothing. Surely the UK gave plenty of state aid to the banking industry in recent memory?

    The reason you can give state aid is that you just frame it in another way: national security, for example. Which is a general excuse to avoid many of the rules of the EU. It's a reasonable argument that protecting steel production in the UK is a matter of national security.

    The UK government doesn't want to get into the business of steel, so it won't use these arguments to protect steel production.
    The UK government needed permission from the European Commission to bail out the banks.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    We can elect a labour government at the next GE - we can't elect a new European Commission. Ever.
    You elect the people that appoint them...

    Germany can never elect a Chancellor either, the MPs vote her/him in, not the people.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You elect the people that appoint them...

    Germany can never elect a Chancellor either, the MPs vote her/him in, not the people.
    Sucks to be Germany then, clearly they need reform.

    The fact that the Commission is entirely appointed isn't a defense, I don't know why it keeps getting brought up like it is - it's totally undemocratic!
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    Michael Gove says:



    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e7b2d4d4-d...#axzz493llcXli

    We keep hearing these kinds of things from the LEAVE campaign, and how they will rid us of red tape - but no one has anything concrete to say about it.

    I know Gove and other Tories want to get rid of the Human Rights Act, and take the UK out of the European Convention on Human Rights - but that isn't a treaty of the EU anyway.

    While I understand that the EU generates legislation and red tape, I'm not really sure I believe that a standalone UK government with no EU oversight would be any better. Government likes rules and regulation - left to their own devices they seem to generate enough. Look at the measures announced in the Queen's speech:

    Digital Economy Bill
    Modern Transport Bill
    Neighbourhood Planning and Infrastructure Bill
    Local Growth and Jobs Bill
    Better Markets Bill
    Bus Services Bill
    NHS (Overseas Visitors Chanrging) Bill
    Pensions Bill
    Children and Social Work Bill
    Education for All Bill
    Higher Education and Research Bill
    Prison and Courts Reform Bill
    National Citizen Service Bill
    Lifetime Savings Bill
    Finance Bill
    Small Charitable Donations Bill
    Bill of Rights
    Counter-extremism and Safeguarding Bill
    Criminal Finances Bill
    Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill
    Wales Bill

    None of these are imposed by the EU.
    All of the bills you mentioned are very insignificant, especially when the conservatives have waited 23 years to be government. The cabinet is focued in saving Camerons career in june.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Sucks to be Germany then, clearly they need reform.

    The fact that the Commission is entirely appointed isn't a defense, I don't know why it keeps getting brought up like it is - it's totally undemocratic!
    Why is democracy the be all end all? Why is it undemocratic?

    Why does it suck to be Germany? Does it suck to be Britain who still has a monarch, who still has a House of Lords, who has first past the post?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Why is democracy the be all end all?
    The average remain voter, everyone.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    The average remain voter, everyone.
    That does not make sense.
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    Simple, the ones I want rid off are :-

    i) EU migrants rights to out-of-work/in-work benefits. That includes Child and Housing Benefits.

    Just to note, I'm not against them coming to Britain to work or to seek education, 99% of them do a fantastic job and Britain's logistics and agriculture as well as many other industries will come to an absolute standstill if there are no more migrant workers.

    ii) I want the Supreme Court to be the court with the absolute final say on all matters that has to do with Britain, ECJ has no place here.

    Therefore the only way to get what I want to see gone is a vote to leave.

    Thanks.
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    (Original post by Trumpo Trumpu)
    Nazi Germany built germany a good industry sector, there is no doubt about it-volkswagon the car company was a creation of nazi germany. In terms of Germany they benefit because they are muvh bigger on exports then we are-they are more like a Japan then any other EU country. I have never suggested financially thst we are better off outside the EU. I am for brexit to stop immigrants coming to Britain.

    What i will also add is in 2014 Germany exported 623 million to EU countries, to Englands 178 million. I do not believe for a second germany import more than 623 million from EU countries despite EU contributions germany are better off

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist..._recent_trends
    Volkwagen was brought back from total destuction after World War II by British Army Major Ivan Hirst. He tried to sell the revived company to the Americans and British but no one wanted it so thats why its still German.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Sucks to be Germany then, clearly they need reform.

    The fact that the Commission is entirely appointed isn't a defense, I don't know why it keeps getting brought up like it is - it's totally undemocratic!
    Why would you want to elect civil servants? We don't elect civil servants in Britain. If we did, we then need another lot of civil servants to carry out the work done by the civil servants we just elected like collecting taxes and issuing driving licences.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Volkwagen was brought back from total destuction after World War II by British Army Major Ivan Hirst. He tried to sell the revived company to the Americans and British but no one wanted it so thats why its still German.
    Does not stop it being a Nazi Germany idea
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    (Original post by Trumpo Trumpu)
    What I do nkt get is people whk want to tale refugees do not want to let them go back when the war is over
    The majority refugees don't want to stay here forever, they want to live in their own country but it's blown to shreds. Understand that post-war, infrastructures are severely damaged and so it takes a lot of money (which the country usually doesn't have) and necessary stability to allow everyone to go back. As soon as the troops left Iraq before, the country was unstable quickly and then the growth of groups such as ISIS occurred. This isn't just "wait till the bombs stop going off", you do realise that people's houses and towns are completely obliterated? These refugees are fleeing war and persecution, not coming for a sunny holiday. So misinformed it hurts.
 
 
 
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