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    (Original post by loveleest)
    So you are agreeing it's okay for a husband to hit his wife as long as it's no more wider than a stick? yuck, that's such a disgusting with to say.

    And you actually believe the parts I highlighted isn't sexist? Are you being serious? It's so sad how forced into Islam you Muslims are that you deny the evidence displayed in front of you. So sad.
    it may appear sexist to you somehow. its really not, idk why you think that. if a woman does something wrong, she should not be punished? if a man does something wrong should he not be punished?
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    (Original post by sheelo73)
    it may appear sexist to you somehow. its really not, idk why you think that. if a woman does something wrong, she should not be punished? if a man does something wrong should he not be punished?
    Well the quran only implies that women should be punished. Get over yourself and stop denying the truth presented in front you. Some parts of the quran are very sexist.
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    (Original post by sheelo73)
    i wonder how thick you must be to assume that there is no grass in the arabian peninsula lol

    going straight to divorce is allowed. if that is your concern


    men can also disgrace the family. and often are the ones who do.


    And no, its not compulsory for a child to pray or fast until they hit puberty, even then most dont and i havent seen anyone get hit for doing so. it takes time to learn how to pray and takes time to build tolerance to not eat from dawn to dusk. i myself took a good 4-5 years after puberty before i could fast the whole month of ramadan and i wasnt beaten for doing so ( i come from a devout muslim family)
    Insults and anecdotal stories. Nice one! We can agree that Allah is unjust in the way men and women are punished in the dunya for shaming the family, right?

    Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-’As: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately.Sunan Abu Dawood – Book 2 Hadith 495

    ^^ you might wanna check that out incase I made this out of thin air.

    You didn't really reply to what I said but it's pretty hard to justify (minor?) domestic violence.
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    So are women not allowed to challenge the husbands behaviour if he is promiscuous? It's sexist itself because it claims as if there is aan issue with female promiscuity and not males.
    She can,and if she wishes she can obtain a divorce.
    It claims(or even implies) no such thing. Adulterous behaviour is heavily punished for both men and women, so how can those verses possibly claim that only female promiscuity outside of marriage is wrong?
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    So you are agreeing it's okay for a husband to hit his wife as long as it's no more wider than a stick? yuck, that's such a disgusting with to say.

    And you actually believe the parts I highlighted isn't sexist? Are you being serious? It's so sad how forced into Islam you Muslims are that you deny the evidence displayed in front of you. So sad.
    You do realise you understood nothing and its the majority of why muslims leave, they listen to morons quoting hadiths and verses out of context with no meaning, to make Islam look bad.

    At the time the people were "jahil" they were ignorant barbaric, its agreed universally that by saying you cant hit your spouse if it leaves a mark or it causes pain... So how can a women be oppressed and how is this sexist.
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    So are women not allowed to challenge the husbands behaviour if he is promiscuous? It's sexist itself because it claims as if there is aan issue with female promiscuity and not males.



    I never said that, are you okay ? It's sexist to imply that promiscuity is only bad in females and not males.
    its weird that you think that men arent told to be punished in the quran. promiscuity in men is wrong too... we were discussing womens behaviour thus we werent talking about men however, if you recall my previous answers, i do also mention that men can also disgrace the family in the same way women can.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Insults and anecdotal stories. Nice one! We can agree that Allah is unjust in the way men and women are punished in the dunya for shaming the family, right?

    Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-’As: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately.Sunan Abu Dawood – Book 2 Hadith 495

    ^^ you might wanna check that out incase I made this out of thin air.

    You didn't really reply to what I said but it's pretty hard to justify (minor?) domestic violence.
    my internet is crazy slow so it takes time for me to see your posts.

    the crazy thing is that you believe men cant be punished ! why do you think that?! we arent given some sort of special treatment where men can do what ever they want with out consequences.

    in regards to what i said about kids. you might remember i said that puberty is when praying is made compulsory : here is when kids reach puberty on avg

    In girls, puberty usually starts around 11 years of age, but it may start as early as 6 or 7 years of age. In boys, puberty begins around 12 years as age, but may start as early as 9 years of age. Puberty is a process that goes on for several years. Most girls are physically mature by about 14 years of age.

    as you can see, both genders start puberty around 10. so therefore they are required. but majority of families start them praying later.
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    (Original post by sheelo73)
    my internet is crazy slow so it takes time for me to see your posts.

    the crazy thing is that you believe men cant be punished ! why do you think that?! we arent given some sort of special treatment where men can do what ever they want with out consequences.

    in regards to what i said about kids. you might remember i said that puberty is when praying is made compulsory : here is when kids reach puberty on avg

    In girls, puberty usually starts around 11 years of age, but it may start as early as 6 or 7 years of age. In boys, puberty begins around 12 years as age, but may start as early as 9 years of age. Puberty is a process that goes on for several years. Most girls are physically mature by about 14 years of age.

    as you can see, both genders start puberty around 10. so therefore they are required. but majority of families start them praying later.
    Ive already answered the moron sufficiently since hes clearly ignorant and trying his utmost best to slander and misquote things
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    Well the quran only implies that women should be punished. Get over yourself and stop denying the truth presented in front you. Some parts of the quran are very sexist.
    when men become promiscuous and commit adultery, they are often disowned by their families, and in strict islamic countries, imprisoned. is that what you were asking about?

    women get it off quite easy dont you think?
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Ok ill show you how laughable and how much of an idiot you really are, and i dont care if its insulting stop trying to sladner misquote and take things out of context.

    Abu Dawood (459) and Ahmad (6650) narrated from ‘Amr ibn Shu’ayb from his father that his grandfather said: The Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said: “Teach your children to pray when they are seven years old, and smack them (lightly) if they do not pray when they are 10 years old, and separate them in their beds.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Irwa’(247).

    With regard to smacking a child for not praying, it is stipulated that the smacking should be light and should not be painful and should not break the skin, or break a tooth or bone. It should be on the back or the hand and the like, and the face is to be avoided because it is forbidden to strike it, because the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) forbade that.

    Explain how its "domestic violence" lmao.... What a moron trying to misquote things and take it out of context it says "LIGHTLY", IT CANT BE PAINFUL, LEAVE A MARK.

    exactly...
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    (Original post by sheelo73)
    my internet is crazy slow so it takes time for me to see your posts.

    the crazy thing is that you believe men cant be punished ! why do you think that?! we arent given some sort of special treatment where men can do what ever they want with out consequences.

    in regards to what i said about kids. you might remember i said that puberty is when praying is made compulsory : here is when kids reach puberty on avg

    In girls, puberty usually starts around 11 years of age, but it may start as early as 6 or 7 years of age. In boys, puberty begins around 12 years as age, but may start as early as 9 years of age. Puberty is a process that goes on for several years. Most girls are physically mature by about 14 years of age.

    as you can see, both genders start puberty around 10. so therefore they are required. but majority of families start them praying later.
    I'm talking about husband being allowed to beat his wife but not vice versa (or her family etc). I'm not talking about the aakhira.
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    (Original post by Thanbir.33)
    murder wtf
    child sex give me the proof
    which wife did he beat
    treatingwomen awfully, when
    slavery just stopped two centuries ago for america and england
    'nuff said'
    Yeah it haven't stop at all in arab world. Isis still taking slaves. Laborers in qatar not any better.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Yeah it haven't stop at all in arab world. Isis still taking slaves. Laborers in qatar not any better.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    here you are comparing muslims to isis, and saying laborers in qatar are like slaves. they do get paid. the apple devices you currently own are made by kids and adults in chinese factories who earn 0.25 dollars an hour but you dont seem to complain about that... we arent allowed to keep slaves on islam, if you dont wanna believe it, i cant do anything to change your mind
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    I'm talking about husband being allowed to beat his wife but not vice versa (or her family etc). I'm not talking about the aakhira.
    i understand you are talking about dunya. men in the past were lashed for that sort of behaviour and nowadays they are imprisoned. imo prison is far worse than being hit with a small twig
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    anyways im retiring myself from this thread hahaha spent way too much time on here

    should be revising
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    (Original post by sheelo73)
    Slavery in islam is not allowed.
    False.

    Please provide one reliable proof
    I don't know what would constitute 'reliable' in your mind, given the usual position taken by Muslims that any site remotely critical of Islam is a biased site incapable of being correct on even the smallest factual detail and, if not that, then the site caters to a different sect to the one of which the person speaking happens to be a member, and is therefore, naturally, bulls--t.

    Anyway, this site usually seems to be well-received by the Sunni members, so let's hope I don't get mauled for my 'Islamophobic' ignorance. :rolleyes: Cutting out the silly apologetics ('Europe and America were worse in their time!'), the most salient point is as follows:

    No human being has the right to restrict this freedom or take away that choice unlawfully; whoever dares to do that is a wrongdoer and oppressor.

    This is one of the basic principles of Islam. When the question is asked: why does Islam permit slavery? We reply emphatically and without shame that slavery is permitted in Islam, but we should examine the matter with fairness and with the aim of seeking the truth, and we should examine the details of the rulings on slavery in Islam, with regard to the sources and reasons for it, and how to deal with the slave and how his rights and duties are equal to those of the free man, and the ways in which he may earn his freedom, of which there are many in sharee’ah, whilst also taking into consideration the new types of slavery in this world which is pretending to be civilized, modern and progressive.
    You're welcome to read the rest of that exercise in excuse-making, but since you've only disputed the permissibility of slavery in Islam, much of it is irrelevant (it goes into quite some detail about why slavery in Islam is justified/ameliorated because, hey, Judaism and Christianity were just as bad if not worse).
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Now at the time it was the norm
    Only people whose lives aren't claimed to be an example for all times and for all people can appeal to the 'norms of the time.' Muhammad was either as subject to the norms of 7th century Arabia as anyone else living there at the time, or he was a perfect model for all times. You can't have it both ways.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    False.



    I don't know what would constitute 'reliable' in your mind, given the usual position taken by Muslims that any site remotely critical of Islam is a biased site incapable of being correct on even the smallest factual detail and, if not that, then the site caters to a different sect to the one of which the person speaking happens to be a member, and is therefore, naturally, bulls--t.

    Anyway, this site usually seems to be well-received by the Sunni members, so let's hope I don't get mauled for my 'Islamophobic' ignorance. :rolleyes: Cutting out the silly apologetics ('Europe and America were worse in their time!', the most salient point is as follows:



    You're welcome to read the rest of that exercise in excuse-making, but since you've only disputed the permissibility of slavery in Islam, much of it is irrelevant (it goes into quite some detail about why slavery in Islam is justified/ameliorated because, hey, Judaism and Christianity were just as bad if not worse).
    Again whats with non muslims taking things out of cotext....

    there are stipluations required and principles when treating a "slave".
    Guaranteeing them food and clothing like that of their masters.
    Preserving their dignity
    Being fair towards slaves and treating them kindly
    When ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allaah be pleased with him) walked among his slaves, no one could tell him apart from them, because he did not walk ahead of them, and he did not wear anything different from what they wore.
    One day ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab passed by and saw some slaves standing and not eating with their master. He got angry and said to their master: What is wrong with people who are selfish towards their servants? Then he called the servants and they ate with them.
    This term slave is completely out of context and is not in the sense of what you think, they arent oppressed and treated with kidness dingity like that of another human being.
    This is how Islam treats slaves justly and kindly. One of the results of these guidelines is that in many cases, the slave would become a friend of his master; in some cases the master would regard him as a son. Sa’d ibn Haashim al-Khaalidi said, describing a slave of his: He is not a slave, rather he is a son whom [Allaah] has put under my care.He has supported me with his good service; he is my hands and my arms.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Only people whose lives aren't claimed to be an example for all times and for all people can appeal to the 'norms of the time.' Muhammad was either as subject to the norms of 7th century Arabia as anyone else living there at the time, or he was a perfect model for all times. You can't have it both ways.
    Leave him. He basically said paedophillia is ok as long as they go through puberty. Marriages can happen before it though.

    No point arguing tbh. We believe it's wrong, he believes it's right.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Only people whose lives aren't claimed to be an example for all times and for all people can appeal to the 'norms of the time.' Muhammad was either as subject to the norms of 7th century Arabia as anyone else living there at the time, or he was a perfect model for all times. You can't have it both ways.
    I literally said laws change from societies and so do norms.... There is nothing wrong with marrying at the age of puberty this does not mean you need to have sexual relationships, rather its to build a bond, so he is perfect model for all times.

    Again taking things out of context which you love to do, its clear that puberty happens at different times for different people and therefore isnt the same, so how can something like marriage be applied to the same principle.

    just because we say you cant get married at the age doesnt make it wrong societal norms change, and marriage doesn't mean immediate sex, therefore if parents have consented and so has the person at the age of puberty how can it be wrong.
    What is wrong for someone who they themselves have consented to.... And so have their parents to marriage, if there is no sexual relationship and is merely to build trust and bond together if its the age of puberty.
 
 
 
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