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Vote on the future of the Model European Union Watch

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    (Original post by toronto353)
    If and that's a very big if, but again, if this doesn't happen, how long do we leave it? Three months? Six months? This is getting silly now - the MEU has been in development for 13 months and nothing has been achieved thus far, why should we keep spending time if nothing is going to get done?

    It's about being realistic and if it's going to be for fifteen people, we have to assess whether it's worth it - TDA's argument is irrelevant as pointed out. I have consistently tried to help with the MEU - I offered support to adam which was never taken up and I have made various suggestions as to how this forum could get started (with debates) all of which were ignored. With respect, I think that part of the reason people don't want to get involved is because you're behaving like this place is your personal fiefdom. You sent an unsolicited PM out to people, told others that you were in charge of the chat thread and could ban them from it, have posted in several subforums saying that certain groupings should be shut down, and then spoken to me like this when all I did was follow QC's instructions - all this bearing in mind that you're not in charge. Perhaps part of the reason that people are turned away from this place is your behaviour?
    I recognise that the MEU can't be delayed for any longer and that's why I think we have to start setting deadlines because otherwise, nothing will ever get done.

    That figure of 15 people is the number of people who want the MEU to get going and once it does, the MEU members will increase. Whether you offered advice to Adam or not, that's for him to say, but publicly, you have only expressed the view that the MEU should be closed down.

    I have made a real effort to try to get this place going by setting up a bar, sending 1 message telling people about the MEU and trying to decrease the numbers of parties whereas all you have really done is just criticise the project.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    The government one uses usergroups... It assigns multiple usergroups to one subforum.
    Yes, but an additional user group hasn't been created because of it.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Again, why are private subforums necessary to have had this project starting? Aph has excellently shown that the MHoC functioned for two terms without them.
    They aren't absolutely vital and I think we should crack on with it, even if the CT haven't made the subforums private.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Yes, but an additional user group hasn't been created because of it.
    no... But it still used usergroups so yeah ur point isn't valid

    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    They aren't absolutely vital and I think we should crack on with it, even if the CT haven't made the subforums private.
    That's the point!!!! No one has cracked on with it for 13 months!
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Perhaps we should have had a seance to get rid of them, because that would have got this project moving :rolleyes:
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    They aren't absolutely vital and I think we should crack on with it, even if the CT haven't made the subforums private.
    When will you realise that while the EU can't be REformed, the MEU can't even be formed in the first place? If you want to run around and around in circles hoping your hamster wheel finally starts I'm sure aph will keep going.

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    This whole thread just shows why the MEU hasn't gotten off the ground: all talk of these plans and yet no action from anyone who wants to the MEU to exist. Oh, and don't use the whole CT excuse on me, that's an old excuse and well past its sell by date.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    QC thinks it will now be possilbe to create private subforums without user groups, a bit like the Government one.
    It is possible to do that, but means whenever a new user joins the MEU (if a new user does anyway), they'd have to wait for the CT to actually do it... I'm surprised that's an offer the CT have even made...
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    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post65695671

    A second debate.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post65695671

    A second debate.
    Wow, that's like what, a debate every 6.5 months?
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Wow, that's like what, a debate every 6.5 months?
    har-bloody-har
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    har-bloody-har
    Glad you found it funny
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    They aren't absolutely vital and I think we should crack on with it, even if the CT haven't made the subforums private.
    Ok, so having admitted this, why isn't the project off the ground then and why, having allegedly put so much effort in, haven't you done more to push it forward? What you've basically admitted with this post is that there is no reason why the project hasn't got off the ground and if there is no reason why it hasn't been started before, why should we believe you now that suddenly something will be done?

    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    I recognise that the MEU can't be delayed for any longer and that's why I think we have to start setting deadlines because otherwise, nothing will ever get done.
    See above.

    That figure of 15 people is the number of people who want the MEU to get going and once it does, the MEU members will increase. Whether you offered advice to Adam or not, that's for him to say, but publicly, you have only expressed the view that the MEU should be closed down.
    The figure of 15 people is not a secure number and could very well go down. What I find astonishing from you is that the 24 people voting no apparently is probably inflated, but all of those 15 people are people who have had the right to vote - pick one or the other, either the figures of 15 and 24 stand or both are subject to review. In addition, I have posted on here and indeed in the last Government's chat thread, of which you were a part, that there was no reason why debates couldn't get started without the subforums and usergroups and I have advised people to do that, so please don't tell me what I have and haven't said if you can't be bothered to properly research that or indeed read or remember what I have posted in the past.

    I have made a real effort to try to get this place going by setting up a bar, sending 1 message telling people about the MEU and trying to decrease the numbers of parties whereas all you have really done is just criticise the project.
    So basically, you've created one thread where you acted like a dictator telling people you would ban them and sent an unsolicited PM which people didn't like and you then complained when they rightly questioned a) why you were sending it and b) why they received PMs which they didn't want. How on earth is that real effort? As I can see it, you've probably had the opposite effect and just irritated people and turned them away from the MEU through your behaviour and actions, which probably took all of five minutes to complete. I would have more respect had you done what Adam and Petros (I believe) have done which is try to form a Constitution and get debate going. Instead, you've just behaved like you own this place. As for trying to decrease the number of parties, who on earth are you to decide that and who gave you the right to do that?

    I have been realistic with this project, giving advice on how to get it started, repeatedly saying that I stood ready to provide assistance if needed, and then running a poll to see if there was interest. In fact, even during this week, I was in communication with QC discussing ways in which, if this poll came out in favour of the MEU, we could move the project forward quickly and efficiently. So please, don't tell me what I have and haven't done on the basis of me running this poll and being critical of this project's development.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Ok, so having admitted this, why isn't the project off the ground then and why, having allegedly put so much effort in, haven't you done more to push it forward? What you've basically admitted with this post is that there is no reason why the project hasn't got off the ground and if there is no reason why it hasn't been started before, why should we believe you now that suddenly something will be done?

    The figure of 15 people is not a secure number and could very well go down. What I find astonishing from you is that the 24 people voting no apparently is probably inflated, but all of those 15 people are people who have had the right to vote - pick one or the other, either the figures of 15 and 24 stand or both are subject to review. In addition, I have posted on here and indeed in the last Government's chat thread, of which you were a part, that there was no reason why debates couldn't get started without the subforums and usergroups and I have advised people to do that, so please don't tell me what I have and haven't said if you can't be bothered to properly research that or indeed read or remember what I have posted in the past.

    So basically, you've created one thread where you acted like a dictator telling people you would ban them and sent an unsolicited PM which people didn't like and you then complained when they rightly questioned a) why you were sending it and b) why they received PMs which they didn't want. How on earth is that real effort? As I can see it, you've probably had the opposite effect and just irritated people and turned them away from the MEU through your behaviour and actions, which probably took all of five minutes to complete. I would have more respect had you done what Adam and Petros (I believe) have done which is try to form a Constitution and get debate going. Instead, you've just behaved like you own this place. As for trying to decrease the number of parties, who on earth are you to decide that and who gave you the right to do that?

    I have been realistic with this project, giving advice on how to get it started, repeatedly saying that I stood ready to provide assistance if needed, and then running a poll to see if there was interest. In fact, even during this week, I was in communication with QC discussing ways in which, if this poll came out in favour of the MEU, we could move the project forward quickly and efficiently. So please, don't tell me what I have and haven't done on the basis of me running this poll and being critical of this project's development.
    Firstly, before Adam resigned, I couldn't do too much in regards to the MEU because I didn't want to annoy him. He was the one who had been appointed by CT to get it running so it wasn't really my place to get involved with the setting up of the forum. As I have said before, I am hoping now that the CT will put together a small team of people who will work together and get the MEU going. Also, the reason why I personally couldn't do anything in the last few days was to see what the results of the poll are. Plus, I would like clarification from CT first before getting stuck into setting dealdines and making other preparations.

    It could go down but if the MEU is set up well, it should go up. The reason why I think that figure is because I know quite a few people who are in support of the MEU and would have voted to keep the project. There may be a few illegitimate voters in the 15 but nearly all of them will be legitimate. In the Government subforum, we had a discussion about the MEU and you said that you didn't support it because you feared it would significantly reduce activity in the MHoC, something which I highly doubt.

    So basically, I've created a European Bar and let people know about the situation with the MEU when you have just been constantly whining about the entire project and have put no effort in whatsoever. I too am having a good think about the constitution and guidance document but you wouldn't know that. I don't think you had any right to come charging into the MEU and creating a poll to decide its future because you wanted it to be closed down.

    I have not once seen you give any advice on how it could be started but instead just attack the principles by which it will be built upon. I too have been in contact with QC this week and we agreed that providing enough people express interest (and 15 was even brought up as a figure then), the MEU can go ahead. I would post the contents of her message here but I believe that is against TSR rules. I think she made it quite clear in a post earlier in this thread that that would be the course of action. So please, don't tell me I haven't put any work in or done everything I possibly could have done to get this thing going.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Firstly, before Adam resigned, I couldn't do too much in regards to the MEU because I didn't want to annoy him. He was the one who had been appointed by CT to get it running so it wasn't really my place to get involved with the setting up of the forum. As I have said before, I am hoping now that the CT will put together a small team of people who will work together and get the MEU going. Also, the reason why I personally couldn't do anything in the last few days was to see what the results of the poll are. Plus, I would like clarification from CT first before getting stuck into setting dealdines and making other preparations.
    Now I think that we're starting to get into the territory of telling fibs. I scarcely think that you were concerned about annoying him when you sent the PM and behaved and indeed behave as you do now thinking that you own the place. Adam has been more than happy to allow Petros to post debates (or at least I have seen no evidence to the contrary), so there was lots you could do and why not contact him to ask if you could help take some of the pressure off? I'm sorry, but your story really does not stack up or correlate with how you behave here.

    It could go down but if the MEU is set up well, it should go up. The reason why I think that figure is because I know quite a few people who are in support of the MEU and would have voted to keep the project. There may be a few illegitimate voters in the 15 but nearly all of them will be legitimate. In the Government subforum, we had a discussion about the MEU and you said that you didn't support it because you feared it would significantly reduce activity in the MHoC, something which I highly doubt.
    We're not talking about future polls or votes, we're talking about this one. I wonder how you can be so sure that almost all of the 15 are legitimate. You have no way of knowing whatsoever - yes I'll admit that I had those fears, but I also offered to provide assistance based on my experience and said that Ray would probably be happy to do the same. We offered support and indeed after that instance you mentioned, I repeatedly said about starting debates (hence why Petros did that). So don't paint me as someone who has always been against the project - I have tried to help, but there hasn't been the determination to do anything.

    So basically, I've created a European Bar and let people know about the situation with the MEU when you have just been constantly whining about the entire project and have put no effort in whatsoever. I too am having a good think about the constitution and guidance document but you wouldn't know that. I don't think you had any right to come charging into the MEU and creating a poll to decide its future because you wanted it to be closed down.
    Again, here come the lies - I offered support and have not been 'constantly whining' as you put it. I offered suggestions about how to kick start this place, arguing that a lack of subforums did not matter in the slightest, you just needed debate. Creating a bar and letting people know about the MEU situation isn't putting effort in - in fact, I strongly suspect you probably caused adam headaches there, when he and other mods had to stop you saying that you could ban people from the thread (which was ridiculous) and when he then had to apologise for you sending what some considered spam to their inboxes. You may have helped in the creation of Constitution and Guidance Document, but where is it? It's still not posted after months of preparations, so I wouldn't boast too much about that. With regard to the poll, QC asked me to run it - I'm not sure what part of that you're struggling to understand because I have had to repeat it several times to you now.

    I have not once seen you give any advice on how it could be started but instead just attack the principles by which it will be built upon. I too have been in contact with QC this week and we agreed that providing enough people express interest (and 15 was even brought up as a figure then), the MEU can go ahead. I would post the contents of her message here but I believe that is against TSR rules. I think she made it quite clear in a post earlier in this thread that that would be the course of action. So please, don't tell me I haven't put any work in or done everything I possibly could have done to get this thing going.
    Then you've clearly not been looking hard enough. It's rather interesting that 15 people happen to vote to keep the forum going and 15 is the total decided - coincidence much? I too have been in contact with QC, so let's try to avoid claiming ownership on chats with the CT shall we? If creating a thread, badgering people via PM, and behaving like you own the place is you doing everything you can to keep this place going, I'd hate to see what you're like when you put no effort in.
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    This whole thread just shows why the MEU hasn't gotten off the ground: all talk of these plans and yet no action from anyone who wants to the MEU to exist. Oh, and don't use the whole CT excuse on me, that's an old excuse and well past its sell by date.
    In all fairness, over the last few days Adam I believe was told to hold off on anything until after this vote concludes.

    --------------

    In my opinion, 15 people choosing for it to stay open shows there is still life here. However, this has to get off the ground soon for it to have any hope.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    In all fairness, over the last few days Adam I believe was told to hold off on anything until after this vote concludes.

    --------------

    In my opinion, 15 people choosing for it to stay open shows there is still life here. However, this has to get off the ground soon for it to have any hope.
    That is fair enough but most of this is talk of things that could have happened months ago. I don't want to argue about this because there is far too much arguing as it is.
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    That is fair enough but most of this is talk of things that could have happened months ago. I don't want to argue about this because there is far too much arguing as it is.
    I agree. More should have been done up until this point. There's no doubt about that whatsoever.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Now I think that we're starting to get into the territory of telling fibs. I scarcely think that you were concerned about annoying him when you sent the PM and behaved and indeed behave as you do now thinking that you own the place. Adam has been more than happy to allow Petros to post debates (or at least I have seen no evidence to the contrary), so there was lots you could do and why not contact him to ask if you could help take some of the pressure off? I'm sorry, but your story really does not stack up or correlate with how you behave here.

    We're not talking about future polls or votes, we're talking about this one. I wonder how you can be so sure that almost all of the 15 are legitimate. You have no way of knowing whatsoever - yes I'll admit that I had those fears, but I also offered to provide assistance based on my experience and said that Ray would probably be happy to do the same. We offered support and indeed after that instance you mentioned, I repeatedly said about starting debates (hence why Petros did that). So don't paint me as someone who has always been against the project - I have tried to help, but there hasn't been the determination to do anything.

    Again, here come the lies - I offered support and have not been 'constantly whining' as you put it. I offered suggestions about how to kick start this place, arguing that a lack of subforums did not matter in the slightest, you just needed debate. Creating a bar and letting people know about the MEU situation isn't putting effort in - in fact, I strongly suspect you probably caused adam headaches there, when he and other mods had to stop you saying that you could ban people from the thread (which was ridiculous) and when he then had to apologise for you sending what some considered spam to their inboxes. You may have helped in the creation of Constitution and Guidance Document, but where is it? It's still not posted after months of preparations, so I wouldn't boast too much about that. With regard to the poll, QC asked me to run it - I'm not sure what part of that you're struggling to understand because I have had to repeat it several times to you now.

    Then you've clearly not been looking hard enough. It's rather interesting that 15 people happen to vote to keep the forum going and 15 is the total decided - coincidence much? I too have been in contact with QC, so let's try to avoid claiming ownership on chats with the CT shall we? If creating a thread, badgering people via PM, and behaving like you own the place is you doing everything you can to keep this place going, I'd hate to see what you're like when you put no effort in.
    To suggest it is a fib is absurd. I was even sent a message by Adam saying that he didn't need me to get involved with the setting up of the MEU. I do not think that I own the place at all - I just want to get the MEU up and running. I did contact Adam to ask if I could help in any way but he said we couldn't progress until CT had sorted out the subforums.

    Because I know nearly 15 people that voted to keep the MEU? Unless you're suggesting they lied and voted against it which would be ridiculous. Of course I don't know what you have said in private but publicly, you have always been quite anti-MEU.

    I think you suggestion of lies is just your way of trying to say you think I'm wrong. It is not necessarily the end product of work that counts but the fact I put in some effort when others were simply complaining at how long the project was taking.

    So now you're suggesting I have somehow gained mod powers and manipulated the result of the poll so that the number of those in favour equals 15 exactly? You seem to be implying that I'm trying to bring the MEU down from within which is the total opposite of the truth.

    I have repeated myself several times now so I would prefer if we ended the discussion here.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    To suggest it is a fib is absurd. I was even sent a message by Adam saying that he didn't need me to get involved with the setting up of the MEU. I do not think that I own the place at all - I just want to get the MEU up and running. I did contact Adam to ask if I could help in any way but he said we couldn't progress until CT had sorted out the subforums.

    Because I know nearly 15 people that voted to keep the MEU? Unless you're suggesting they lied and voted against it which would be ridiculous. Of course I don't know what you have said in private but publicly, you have always been quite anti-MEU.

    I think you suggestion of lies is just your way of trying to say you think I'm wrong. It is not necessarily the end product of work that counts but the fact I put in some effort when others were simply complaining at how long the project was taking.

    So now you're suggesting I have somehow gained mod powers and manipulated the result of the poll so that the number of those in favour equals 15 exactly? You seem to be implying that I'm trying to bring the MEU down from within which is the total opposite of the truth.

    I have repeated myself several times now so I would prefer if we ended the discussion here.
    Obviously I can't go into PMs as I don't know what was said - your behaviour in opening the bar and then trying to ban people from it, sending out an unsolicited PM, and trying to close parties suggests that you very much think that you are in charge and I think that you want this project to succeed not so much because for the project, but for your own ego, thinking that you will be in charge of it all.

    No, what I am suggesting is that you could have leaned on people to vote for the MEU and again, either you don't bother reading my posts or you want to continue lying - I have offered advice on this project and offered to be a source of support for adam in public posts. My suggestion that you're lying is because you're lying - you're wrong as well, but you're a liar whose argumetns are wrong. And again you contradict yourself, either you put some effort in to help set up the project or you didn't because adam told you not to. Which is it to be?

    I've answered your vote question and you may think you're helping, but you will bring the project down from within because you are an abrasive personality and have got a lot of people's backs up. If you're truly interested in getting this project off the ground, you'll let TheDefiniteArticle and Petros take the lead on it and take a backseat because they actually have the respect of others in this place and will go about things in way which might attract members. If you don't, I, and others, can only conclude that you're seeking to inflate your own ego.
 
 
 
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