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    The debate has nothing to do with being typically English or weak. It took me some time to come to a full decision on Brexit. A day may come when we will be better off without the EU but I don't think that day is June 23rd.
    This problem with this entire debate is that it has been focused on immigration. How many of us Brits enjoy a retirement home in Spain? Free movement is a difficult thing to deal with. We are a selfish nation. We want to have our cheap holidays to Greece and our house in the Algarve but God forbid someone comes to our country to work for our NHS.
    I love this country. But sometimes, we really come across as lazy, racists. Maybe racist is too strong a word - but we are definitely prejudice. People from Europe work for us, pay taxes and learn our language. Having a multi-national, multi-cultural Britain is the modern world. Why move backwards?

    Immigration has an intense strain on this country. The housing crisis for instance - I live in London, getting on the housing ladder here is near impossible for young people. There are other ways of solving this rather than leaving the EU. For example, build more houses. This is happening which is wonderful. However, the houses that are being built are incredibly unaffordable. I see adverts every day in the Evening Standard about new housing blocks that are being build however nine times out of ten, they are luxury apartments; out of reach for many Brits. Build affordable housing.

    I was on the fence for sometime about this debate, and a lot of research has lead to me come to a decision. There are strong arguments in both the leave and remain campaigns. I don't think the scare mongering used at last years election was the best way to move forward. So many people are disillusioned to all the issues that actually surround this debate.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    Quite frankly.

    Weak, weak-minded, impressionable.
    Did you just describe the average moron voting Brexit cuz muh immigrants, muh sovereignty?

    Seems a good description bro, well done.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Did you just describe the average moron voting Brexit cuz muh immigrants, muh sovereignty?

    Seems a good description bro, well done.
    You're clearly retarded if you don't understand what sovereignty actually means.

    I want my sovereignty to the more democratically-elected officials in the UK; not Brussels.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    You're clearly retarded if you don't understand what sovereignty actually means.

    I want my sovereignty to the more democratically-elected officials in the UK; not Brussels.
    Oh I understand what it means.

    I just don't have a problem that some decisions are made in Brussels

    But hey, keep insulting me, you sound so convincing to vote Leave.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Oh I understand what it means.

    I just don't have a problem that some decisions are made in Brussels

    But hey, keep insulting me, you sound so convincing to vote Leave.
    "some"?

    It determines all our trade deals.
    It has a supreme Court of Justice does it not?
    It determines certain taxes (ONTTE.)

    "keep insulting me"

    You in other words called me a moron.
    Hypocritical no?
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    (Original post by amyvictoriaaa)
    The debate has nothing to do with being typically English or weak. It took me some time to come to a full decision on Brexit. A day may come when we will be better off without the EU but I don't think that day is June 23rd.
    This problem with this entire debate is that it has been focused on immigration. How many of us Brits enjoy a retirement home in Spain? Free movement is a difficult thing to deal with. We are a selfish nation. We want to have our cheap holidays to Greece and our house in the Algarve but God forbid someone comes to our country to work for our NHS.
    I love this country. But sometimes, we really come across as lazy, racists. Maybe racist is too strong a word - but we are definitely prejudice. People from Europe work for us, pay taxes and learn our language. Having a multi-national, multi-cultural Britain is the modern world. Why move backwards?

    Immigration has an intense strain on this country. The housing crisis for instance - I live in London, getting on the housing ladder here is near impossible for young people. There are other ways of solving this rather than leaving the EU. For example, build more houses. This is happening which is wonderful. However, the houses that are being built are incredibly unaffordable. I see adverts every day in the Evening Standard about new housing blocks that are being build however nine times out of ten, they are luxury apartments; out of reach for many Brits. Build affordable housing.

    I was on the fence for sometime about this debate, and a lot of research has lead to me come to a decision. There are strong arguments in both the leave and remain campaigns. I don't think the scare mongering used at last years election was the best way to move forward. So many people are disillusioned to all the issues that actually surround this debate.
    Good clear points here. Immigration isn't the only reason. Although being racist =/= wanting to leave the EU, at least in my view. Even with controlled borders, we still need immigration, and without the EU we can open up the pool of workers to everyone, rather than discriminate based on nationality.

    That said, I believe your first point about "a day may come when we will be better off without the EU" isn't the best when it comes to making a final decision. It took enough pressure to get Cameron to even agree to an EU referendum in the first place. It's incredibly unlikely there will be another, given the EU's increasing power over the UK and the fact we'll soon be so tightly bound up in European legislation we won't be able to leave without completely destabilising everything.

    So I beg to differ and say leave. But we can't predict what's going to happen either way, and I don't think either outcome is particularly desirable.
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    Leaving the EU is the wrong decision as said by Wolfgang Schauble and Christine Lagarde. I trust the two above far more than the faux intellectuals running the Vote Leave campaign.


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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    "some"?

    It determines all our trade deals.
    It has a supreme Court of Justice does it not?
    It determines certain taxes (ONTTE.)

    "keep insulting me"

    You in other words called me a moron.
    Hypocritical no?
    I was going to reply but half way through realized you will just again answer with ridiculous made up things, twisting words, ignoring what I wrote. So I will leave it. In the end I know what I think of selfish, racist, nationalists like you.
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    (Original post by Big white)
    And if it's worse?

    Change doesn't mean better

    For example, the catering at my school was absolute **** and we all decided that we needed a change and we wanted something better and we had a look at a few catering companies who offered to take over for the current ones and we chose one which LOOKED GOOD, initially they were amazing and the food was brilliant, 3 weeks later, it's all turned to **** and it's even worse than before. Even the previous caterers had ****ing variety this company decided to go for ****ing curry all the time
    I hear you on that, I used to work at a properly posh and well-off private school. The catering contractor provided food that was a million times better than at most schools but they were majorly bureaucratic and the charges they passed on to departments were a major rip-off and only kept on going up while service levels were reduced.

    So we complained and moaned and they were the butt of jokes amongst staff and eventually they tendered for a new catering contractor who turned up and provided great food and service for about 3 weeks but after that it declined massively and we ended up with less choice and service for the same, if not a greater cost!
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Oh I understand what it means.

    I just don't have a problem that some decisions are made in Brussels

    But hey, keep insulting me, you sound so convincing to vote Leave.
    Literally German, you don't get a vote so he doesn't have to try and convince you.

    I use German loosely though, you're simply a traitor to Europe like the rest of the remain voters.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Literally German, you don't get a vote so he doesn't have to try and convince you.

    I use German loosely though, you're simply a traitor to Europe like the rest of the remain voters.
    Lol'd.

    Get lost Euan. Your posts are boring.

    ps I never said convincing to me, personally, I said it in general. His, and yours for that matter, posts just sound like bitter, nationalistic little people crying for attention and more power.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Literally German, you don't get a vote so he doesn't have to try and convince you.

    I use German loosely though, you're simply a traitor to Europe like the rest of the remain voters.
    He's not a traitor, you are a traitor along with the rest of leave voters who are retarded enough to believe leaving the EU would make us better off.

    1st: Economic recession
    Negative multiplier effect
    Mass unemployment
    Fall in national income
    Decreased consumption
    Decreased aggregate demand
    Further negative economic growth (Recession)

    2nd: Increased costs of goods due to EU tariffs
    Decreased household RDI
    Decreased consumption meaning less AD and further negative economic growth (Recession)

    3rd: Decrease in house prices in the UK
    Decreased consumer confidence due to lower household wealth
    Decrease in consumption
    Decrease in aggregate demand
    Negative economic growth (Recession)

    4th: Decreased foreign direct investment
    Decreased AD
    Negative economic growth (Recession)

    If we choose to leave the EU it would be the single biggest **** up in British history. Don't trust the retards and xenophobes like the guy I just quoted.


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    (Original post by Nurne)
    He's not a traitor, you are a traitor along with the rest of leave voters who are retarded enough to believe leaving the EU would make us better off.

    1st: Economic recession
    Negative multiplier effect
    Mass unemployment
    Fall in national income
    Decreased consumption
    Decreased aggregate demand
    Further negative economic growth (Recession)

    2nd: Increased costs of goods due to EU tariffs
    Decreased household RDI
    Decreased consumption meaning less AD and further negative economic growth (Recession)

    3rd: Decrease in house prices in the UK
    Decreased consumer confidence due to lower household wealth
    Decrease in consumption
    Decrease in aggregate demand
    Negative economic growth (Recession)

    4th: Decreased foreign direct investment
    Decreased AD
    Negative economic growth (Recession)

    If we choose to leave the EU it would be the single biggest **** up in British history. Don't trust the retards and xenophobes like the guy I just quoted.


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    By "single biggest **** up" do you mean "smallest recession on record", as predicted by the Treasury?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    I was going to reply but half way through realized you will just again answer with ridiculous made up things, twisting words, ignoring what I wrote. So I will leave it. In the end I know what I think of selfish, racist, nationalists like you.
    selfish? I'm trying to protect the democracy we currently have for our current population and future generations!

    How da *** am I racist? I haven't even brought up the immigrant argument (which is usually the premise for s.o. to call you racist in this debate!)
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    selfish? I'm trying to protect the democracy we currently have for our current population and future generations!

    How da *** am I racist? I haven't even brought up the immigrant argument (which is usually the premise for s.o. to call you racist in this debate!)
    No, you are not. You are trying to not integrate with the rest of Europe for selfish reasons - you think you are better off without them.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    No, you are not. You are trying to not integrate with the rest of Europe for selfish reasons - you think you are better off without them.
    I love Europe, as I love the languages, but I have no love for the European Union.

    We are better off withoiut the EU economically, stability-wise and democratically.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    No, you are not. You are trying to not integrate with the rest of Europe for selfish reasons - you think you are better off without them.
    ‘We need to co-operate with our neighbours,’ say Remainers, as if someone somewhere were objecting to the idea.

    Were the EU simply a common market, a regional bloc like Nafta or Asean, no one would have a problem with it.
    What makes the EU different from every other international association is that it legislates for its members.
    In any conflict between a parliamentary statute and the ruling of a Brussels institution, the latter takes precedence.
    This legal supremacy, which was not challenged during the renegotiation, is the basis for the political merger of the member states.
    The EU has acquired, one by one, the attributes and trappings of nationhood: a president and a foreign minister, citizenship and a passport, treaty-making powers, a criminal justice system, a written constitution, a flag and a national anthem.

    It is these things that Leavers object to, not the commerce and co-operation that we would continue to enjoy, as every neighbouring country does.
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    (Original post by ManiaMuse)
    I hear you on that, I used to work at a properly posh and well-off private school. The catering contractor provided food that was a million times better than at most schools but they were majorly bureaucratic and the charges they passed on to departments were a major rip-off and only kept on going up while service levels were reduced.

    So we complained and moaned and they were the butt of jokes amongst staff and eventually they tendered for a new catering contractor who turned up and provided great food and service for about 3 weeks but after that it declined massively and we ended up with less choice and service for the same, if not a greater cost!
    i feel you so much.

    Born to feel brothers xD
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    I love Europe, as I love the languages, but I have no love for the European Union.

    We are better off withoiut the EU economically, stability-wise and democratically.
    If you want to so blatantly contradict yourself, fine. I will no longer humor you.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    ‘We need to co-operate with our neighbours,’ say Remainers, as if someone somewhere were objecting to the idea.

    Were the EU simply a common market, a regional bloc like Nafta or Asean, no one would have a problem with it.
    What makes the EU different from every other international association is that it legislates for its members.
    In any conflict between a parliamentary statute and the ruling of a Brussels institution, the latter takes precedence.
    This legal supremacy, which was not challenged during the renegotiation, is the basis for the political merger of the member states.
    The EU has acquired, one by one, the attributes and trappings of nationhood: a president and a foreign minister, citizenship and a passport, treaty-making powers, a criminal justice system, a written constitution, a flag and a national anthem.

    It is these things that Leavers object to, not the commerce and co-operation that we would continue to enjoy, as every neighbouring country does.
    Paranoid much?
 
 
 
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