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Even if you're pro-guns, why on earth are automatic rifles available in America? Watch

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    The fact that citizens have a right on guns in the US shows that the US constiution has full believe in its citizens as responsible and free humans. Banning guns would proove the opposite.
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    I am pro-full gun control as in the UK, but even if America is to retain its right to bear arms, why is this not limited to basic handguns only? Why are automatic rifles available for sale? What possible purpose could buying an automatic rifle serve?
    Cos how else we gun overthraww the government godamnit!
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    (Original post by BasicMistake)
    Not to mention configurations to turn them into sniper rifles. I struggle to imagine a scenario where blowing off someone's leg at several hundred meters is considered self defence.
    This made me laugh.
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    (Original post by JK11)
    depends who you are defending yourself from. a burglar? a tyrannical government?
    Pretty difficult to defend yourself from a tyrannical government with just guns, when they have drones, tanks, nuclear weapons etc.

    In fact, unless you happen to have a gun on you in a holster at all times, it's pretty difficult to defend yourself from a burglar too. Once they break into your house and point their own gun at you, you're not exactly going to say "hey wait, let me go and get mine, lets be fair!".
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    From my own recollection of it (I have a shotgun license), I think it was kind of a subtle difference. They won't give you a shotgun license for no reason at all, but I was under the impression that provided you meet the requirements the default position is "we'll give you a license" unless there's a good reason not to, and something like "I want to shoot clays as a hobby" is considered a sufficiently good reason. For a firearms license (ie. rifles generally, and especially anything more exotic than a .22 bolt action thing), even if you meet the requirements the default position is they're not going to give you a license unless you have a good reason for needing it, like working protecting your crops from wildlife. They're rather more stringent in checking why you need it (I think you have to justify each individual gun as well, or at least each "type" of gun).

    tldr; shotguns, assume it's fine unless there's a good reason to think otherwise. Anything else, it's not fine unless there's a good reason to think otherwise.
    Really? I'm licensed for for .22 and .243 (not that I get to fire the second one often due the limitation of appropriate ranges) and my good reason was same for my .22 target practice. Well that and deer stalking with the .243 is appropriate for. Which I still haven't gotten around to doing since getting it over a year ago.

    Actually, I'm going to uni in september I was wondering if you could answer some questions about what to do with my guns before I leave.

    Am I able to leave the cabinet and guns at my parents without any keys (mum is a license holder also)
    Would I have to inform the firearms licensing office of this and my change of address
    Or do I have to sell them before leaving for uni?
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    (Original post by Kurogane)
    Really? I'm licensed for for .22 and .243 (not that I get to fire the second one often due the limitation of appropriate ranges) and my good reason was same for my .22 target practice. Well that and deer stalking with the .243 is appropriate for. Which I still haven't gotten around to doing since getting it over a year ago.

    Actually, I'm going to uni in september I was wondering if you could answer some questions about what to do with my guns before I leave.

    Am I able to leave the cabinet and guns at my parents without any keys (mum is a license holder also)
    Would I have to inform the firearms licensing office of this and my change of address
    Or do I have to sell them before leaving for uni?
    I think .22 is an easier sell for target practice, you're not exactly going to hunt deer with it, but if you were after something in .700 I imagine "target practice" might not cut it

    Am I able to leave the cabinet and guns at my parents without any keys (mum is a license holder also) - Yes (possibly the guns need to be listed on her license as well as / instead of yours, I'm not sure offhand)

    Would I have to inform the firearms licensing office of this and my change of address - Possibly... one could still argue that your parents house is your permanent address, so maybe not, but not sure

    Or do I have to sell them before leaving for uni? - No need as long as someone else at the house has a license
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Its pretty simple, make it illegal. America doesn't want to do it based on an economic perspective because a lot of their revenue comes from the production of guns, warfare, military and defence contracts which is why their economy picked up far quicker than us with the crisis in the ME

    Note: second amendment states citizens have the right to bare arms.

    Most argue its their constitutional right.

    Its an amendment to begin wit. Why cant they change it? There are 30+ amendments lol...like the abolishment of slavery.
    As well as the financial motive behind mass civilian gun sales in the US, there is also an element of political manipulation. A scared population are easier to control - most Americans are scared of their neighbours, even children could potentially be armed in many states. Far from creating a peaceful, civil society, it only creates the pretense of one - people modify their behaviour constantly due to the gun threat.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Pretty difficult to defend yourself from a tyrannical government with just guns, when they have drones, tanks, nuclear weapons etc.

    In fact, unless you happen to have a gun on you in a holster at all times, it's pretty difficult to defend yourself from a burglar too. Once they break into your house and point their own gun at you, you're not exactly going to say "hey wait, let me go and get mine, lets be fair!".
    One of the key gun lobby arguments is that you need a gun because the criminals have them.

    Setting aside the reality that far more civilians die from gun accidents in the home and from being shot by their own children or by other family members than any other cause of gun death in the States, the truth is that if gun sales were banned and gun ownership banned, it would then just be a matter for the authorities to progressively hunt down and remove all guns from the streets. The police in many parts of the US have a hard time controlling guns in the hands of criminals because there are so many licensed ones circulating and 'grey market' ones sold at fairs and in other 'relaxed' ways that are nonetheless legal.

    One particularly sick fact in US gun industry activities is that for decades, the manufacturs of vicious mass-killing street automatic weapons like the infamous Tech-90 and their ilk deliberately concentrated their sales efforts on high crime cities, effectively servicing the crime industry.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Given that our last school shooting was Dunblane in 1996. I think his scared approach is the right way to go, don't you? Mean while....Good old USA wrecking that 300+ school shootings this year.

    I cant understand why anyone of average intelligence would think guns were a good thing for a country. IDGAF about fire arms classifications. They're bad. End of.

    Edit: typo 300 mass shootings in USA in 2015, 144 school shootings since 2013 and 336 incidents where shots were fired near schools.
    I might not have the right year, but it's definitely the right century. Let's look at the scorecard.

    UK: 7 mass shootings since 1874
    USA: 7 last week.


    Think that speaks for itself

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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    but if you were after something in .700 I imagine "target practice" might not cut it
    Surely you wouldn't wish the first time you fired it to be with the elephant 50 feet away
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    Arms sales always rise after a mass shooting in the US, especially in the area where it took place.

    Right now, gun sales people from across America are packing their display cases of killing weapons and heading for Orlando....
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    Why are automatic rifles available for sale? What possible purpose could buying an automatic rifle serve?
    Automatic weapons are highly restricted in America, and very few murders are committed with automatic weapons.

    The term "assault rifle" or "assault-type rifle" is used by the press to refer to a gun that has a certain type of appearance. It has little relation to the gun's functionality, and doesn't mean an automatic weapon.
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    We always seem to end up stuck in arguments between people who are very much pro-guns and those who are strongly anti in threads like this. There seems to be very little room for people like me who think we're probably reasonably OK as we are in the UK but could potentially slacken up on certain things like the knee-jerk prohibition on handguns in the future.

    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    That is not what Ive been told.

    One gun under £100 is not representative of the vast majority of guns that usually cost over £500 or more. Certain brands such as Purdey start at £6000 or more, so yes, quite unaffordable for your average person
    That's a bit like saying shoes are unaffordable because a pair of John Lobb's will set you back at least £800. Like most things, you can find guns that cost virtually any price from pretty cheap to incredibly expensive. Functional shotguns are very easy to pick up for under £500.

    (Original post by QE2)
    The "self-defence" claim is a myth.
    Studies in the US have shown that people who keep a gun in the home are several times more likely to die from gunshot than those without guns.

    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
    http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-kellermann.htm
    Which probably tells you more about how people in the US store their guns or discharge them rather than how effective they are for self-defence. I, for one, would rather have a gun than not have one if there were intruders in my house in the night, certainly: that's no "myth".

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    most Americans are scared of their neighbours
    An absolutely bizarre suggestion.
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    I am pro-full gun control as in the UK, but even if America is to retain its right to bear arms, why is this not limited to basic handguns only? Why are automatic rifles available for sale? What possible purpose could buying an automatic rifle serve?
    (Original post by BasicMistake)
    Not to mention configurations to turn them into sniper rifles. I struggle to imagine a scenario where blowing off someone's leg at several hundred meters is considered self defence.
    The US states have sovereignty so states like the Confederate states Georgia have legalised its citizens to carry weapons in public including different types of rifles and pistols. It's also for the millionth time the NRA who lobbies and sponsors (republican) politicians all the time (and prob some sellout democrats too, wouldn't be surprised). They're too in power, it's as simple as that.

    And if you cry the guns are too much you'll have millions of (probably wealthy) Repubs after you. Saying (redneck accent) their "2nd amendment rights are being violated" and blah ****ing blah.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Its pretty simple, make it illegal. America doesn't want to do it based on an economic perspective because a lot of their revenue comes from the production of guns, warfare, military and defence contracts which is why their economy picked up far quicker than us with the crisis in the ME

    Note: second amendment states citizens have the right to bare arms.

    Most argue its their constitutional right.

    Its an amendment to begin with. Why cant they change it? There are 30+ amendments lol...like the abolishment of slavery.
    The abolition of alcohol was an amendment. Surprisingly, that amendment is no longer around. They're certainly not written in stone.
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    Does it make a difference what kind of gun it is? At the end of the day they are all machines designed to kill. How many people die when people with bad intentions get hold of them is just a matter of simple numbers in my opinion, besides the point that in trained hands a hand-gun could be equally as lethal as a automatic weapon.
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    The idea that you need guns as some sort of protection is bogus. Statistically, the person that a gun owner is most likely to shoot is himself, or herself. The second most likely person is a close family member.

    Even in incidents involving gun-toting criminals, civilians are safer if they don't have guns, probably because the average criminal is out for somebody's TV, not to kill random people in their beds. They're only people. They won't shoot you unless they feel threatened. Being helplessly held hostage at gunpoint may be a blow to your ego, but it's a lot less deadly than a full-on gunfight.
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    (Original post by ChemGod007)
    Does it make a difference what kind of gun it is? At the end of the day they are all machines designed to kill. How many people die when people with bad intentions get hold of them is just a matter of simple numbers in my opinion, besides the point that in trained hands a hand-gun could be equally as lethal as a automatic weapon.
    This is not a rifle designed to kill, this is a rifle designed to be as accurate as possible in order to hit paper targets.

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    One of the key gun lobby arguments is that you need a gun because the criminals have them.

    Setting aside the reality that far more civilians die from gun accidents in the home and from being shot by their own children or by other family members than any other cause of gun death in the States, the truth is that if gun sales were banned and gun ownership banned, it would then just be a matter for the authorities to progressively hunt down and remove all guns from the streets. The police in many parts of the US have a hard time controlling guns in the hands of criminals because there are so many licensed ones circulating and 'grey market' ones sold at fairs and in other 'relaxed' ways that are nonetheless legal.

    One particularly sick fact in US gun industry activities is that for decades, the manufacturs of vicious mass-killing street automatic weapons like the infamous Tech-90 and their ilk deliberately concentrated their sales efforts on high crime cities, effectively servicing the crime industry.
    Another liberal pulling gun statistics out of their ass - do they clone you in a factory?

    There are approximately 600 accidental firearm deaths per year in the US (591 in 2011 according to the CDC), and around 9000 firearm homicides per year. So no, accidents do not make up a significant proportion of gun deaths - in fact, a similar number of people die each year from falling out of bed as being accidentally shot. Time to ban sleeping!

    What basis do you have for removing one of the most fundamental part of the US Constitution (then conducting a wildy implausible and absurd nationwide sweep of 300 million firearms)? Real world evidence shows a rapid increase in the number of armed citizens as CCW laws have now expanded to the majority of States, coupled with a more-than-halving of homicide rates over the past 30 years. Each year, 100 million firearm owners in the US use their guns safely, appropriately and within the confines of the law, and each year America becomes a safer and less violent society.

    Do you have any facts, evidence, statistics, or intelligent arguments to support a nationwide ban and removal of a fundamental right, or are we going to have to put up with more emotional, knee-jerk, crybaby drivel?
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    (Original post by ChemGod007)
    Does it make a difference what kind of gun it is? At the end of the day they are all machines designed to kill. How many people die when people with bad intentions get hold of them is just a matter of simple numbers in my opinion, besides the point that in trained hands a hand-gun could be equally as lethal as a automatic weapon.
    I mean do you really believe this?

    If you want to kill a large number of people are you going to choose the weapon that can fire 70+ bullets per minute and spray an entire room or are you going to choose a handgun that can fire 10 before you have to reload? Particularly knowing there may be someone else with a handgun there.

    Sure, a trained gun expert would be more dangerous in a one on one gunfight with a handgun than an amateur with a fully automatic, but for the purpose of pointing it at a crowd of people and letting lose, it's clear which is the superior option. I also know that if I had to fight someone with a handgun, I'd be picking the automatic to give myself every edge I could.

    This isn't to say handguns can't be dangerous, but to say it's on par with a fully automatic rifle is clearly incorrect - they wouldn't have a purpose in the military if they weren't superior.
 
 
 
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