Ask the Speaker II

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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    August is yours then.
    Cheers. :yy: I will make a publication that will be released at the end of August.
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    Mr Speaker,

    Given the government is now one full party short of that which has the authority to govern under the Guidance Document, what is your plan of action to ensure the government is legitimate?
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Mr Speaker,

    Given the government is now one full party short of that which has the authority to govern under the Guidance Document, what is your plan of action to ensure the government is legitimate?
    Citation?
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Citation?
    The Government is formed by the coalition with the most seats: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki...The_Government

    The coalition which formed the government no longer exists. The situation is the same as if any one of the member parties of the government had changed their mind and withdrawn.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The Government is formed by the coalition with the most seats: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki...The_Government

    The coalition which formed the government no longer exists. The situation is the same as if any one of the member parties of the government had changed their mind and withdrawn.
    Ohhhhhh I thought you were saying that there was a requirement to have 3 parties in government

    Paragraph 13 under by-election in the GD answers the question.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Ohhhhhh I thought you were saying that there was a requirement to have 3 parties in government

    Paragraph 13 under by-election in the GD answers the question.
    The issue is not the loss of the seat, but the loss of the party. If the Tories withdrew from the coalition, I would suggest that would immediately make it illegitimate for the Liberals to continue governing, and, for the purpose of consistency, the loss of a party from a Government coalition should have the same consequences in any situation.

    Edit: actually, as a point of information, what brought about the end of LUG?
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The issue is not the loss of the seat, but the loss of the party. If the Tories withdrew from the coalition, I would suggest that would immediately make it illegitimate for the Liberals to continue governing, and, for the purpose of consistency, the loss of a party from a Government coalition should have the same consequences in any situation.
    In the past it has never resulted in a change of government and when it has happened in the past a MoNC was needed to destroy a government.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    In the past it has never resulted in a change of government and when it has happened in the past a MoNC was needed to destroy a government.
    In which case, it has been done incorrectly in the past, and I call on the Speaker to reject this ridiculous precedent. The Government which has gained authority to govern is Con-Lib-Nat Lib. Not Con-Lib, and not any other.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The Government is formed by the coalition with the most seats: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki...The_Government

    The coalition which formed the government no longer exists. The situation is the same as if any one of the member parties of the government had changed their mind and withdrawn.
    As Aph says there have been 3 occasions when the coalition has been reduced in size. Two of those saw the government subject to a vonc, the other saw the coalition continue as before and go on to be at the time, the most active on record.

    The Conservative-Liberal coalition still exits, you simply need to forget the existence of the National Liberals.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The issue is not the loss of the seat, but the loss of the party. If the Tories withdrew from the coalition, I would suggest that would immediately make it illegitimate for the Liberals to continue governing, and, for the purpose of consistency, the loss of a party from a Government coalition should have the same consequences in any situation.

    Edit: actually, as a point of information, what brought about the end of LUG?
    If you think it should go call a MoNC

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    As Aph says there have been 3 occasions when the coalition has been reduced in size. Two of those saw the government subject to a vonc, the other saw the coalition continue as before and go on to be at the time, the most active on record.

    The Conservative-Liberal coalition still exits, you simply need to forget the existence of the National Liberals.
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    If you think it should go call a MoNC

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The point is the coalition automatically has no authority to govern under the MHoC constitution - no MoNC is needed. The Speaker is bound by the constitution, and previous decisions to the contrary were made in error and should be ignored.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The Conservative-Liberal coalition still exits, you simply need to forget the existence of the National Liberals.
    not too difficult
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The point is the coalition automatically has no authority to govern under the MHoC constitution - no MoNC is needed. The Speaker is bound by the constitution, and previous decisions to the contrary were made in error and should be ignored.
    No it doesn't, care to point out the clause stating that any changes to the composition MUST restart proceedings?

    Gota problem, write an amendment

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    No it doesn't, care to point out the clause stating that any changes to the composition MUST restart proceedings?

    Gota problem, write an amendment

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    Constitution 6.1: "[The Government] is formed by the [...] coalition with the most seats."

    The coalition which formed the Government no longer exists. A coalition is not a shifting, unsettled thing, changeable in content at will - it consists of specifically defined parties (and independents). When a party leaves, that entire coalition therefore ceases to exist.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The point is the coalition automatically has no authority to govern under the MHoC constitution - no MoNC is needed. The Speaker is bound by the constitution, and previous decisions to the contrary were made in error and should be ignored.
    Disagree.

    According the guidance document the largest proposed coalition by seats is the one that wins. The Conservative-Liberal coalition still represents the largest proposed coalition with most seats even now that we are one seat down since Labour never proposed a coalition to the speaker that was one seat short (and if they did, since Ray and Fez have now switched positions, Fez can't bring his old politics into the role and Ray's word can't be trusted as leader of the opposition wanting to be in hoc to the socialists).

    Government will continue.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Constitution 6.1: "[The Government] is formed by the [...] coalition with the most seats."

    The coalition which formed the Government no longer exists. A coalition is not a shifting, unsettled thing, changeable in content at will - it consists of specifically defined parties (and independents). When a party leaves, that entire coalition therefore ceases to exist.
    FORMED

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Disagree.

    According the guidance document the largest proposed coalition by seats is the one that wins. The Conservative-Liberal coalition still represents the largest proposed coalition with most seats even now that we are one seat down since Labour never proposed a coalition to the speaker that was one seat short (and if they did, since Ray and Fez have now switched positions, Fez can't bring his old politics into the role and Ray's word can't be trusted as leader of the opposition wanting to be in hoc to the socialists).

    Government will continue.
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    FORMED

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    You miss the point. The coalition is the Government, not the parties in the coalition. The parties in the coalition alone have no authority whatsoever.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    If you think it should go call a MoNC

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If it is indeed a loophole, the Speaker should correct it without anyone using a MoNC.
    • Thread Starter
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Mr Speaker,

    Given the government is now one full party short of that which has the authority to govern under the Guidance Document, what is your plan of action to ensure the government is legitimate?
    The coalition which formed the government no longer exists. The situation is the same as if any one of the member parties of the government had changed their mind and withdrawn.
    The rump of the government is legitimate until such a time as the House votes that it is no longer legitimate. This is what has happened in the past, and this is what will happen now.
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    Saracen's Fez - please can you update our CLT positions on this page at some point?
 
 
 
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