Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Muslim group urges members to break fast and donate blood after Orlando shootings Watch

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FluuidKarma)
    >deobandi
    >salafi

    deobandism and salafism are effectively just branches of wahhabism.
    wahhabism is notorious for killing other muslims.

    literally, that's how wahhabism spread; they literally slaughtered hundreds of thousands of muslims (400,000 in the second wahhabi-saudi jihad).

    i mean just look at what they did to the shia:
    In 1801 and 1802, the Saudi Wahhabis under Abdul Aziz ibn Muhammad ibn Saud attacked and captured the holy Shia cities of Karbala and Najaf in Iraq and destroyed the tombs of Husayn ibn Ali who is the grandson of Muhammad, and Ali (Ali bin Abu Talib), the son-in-law of Muhammad (see: Saudi sponsorship mentioned previously). In 1803 and 1804 the Saudis captured Mecca and Madinah and demolished various tombs of Ahl al-Bayt and Sahabah, ancient monuments, ruins according to Wahhabis, they "removed a number of what were seen as sources or possible gateways to polytheism or shirk" - such as the tomb of Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad. In 1998 the Saudis bulldozed and poured gasoline over the grave of Aminah bint Wahb, the mother of Muhammad, causing resentment throughout the Muslim World.

    deobandism is the main source of shia genocide in India and Pakistan, you do realise this right?


    it also literally just made **** up.
    its main contention is that ziyara (visiting tombs of Muhammad, his family members, descendants, companions, or Sufi saints) and tawassul (intercession), violate tauhid al-'ibada (directing all worship to God alone).
    this has no basis in tradition, in consensus or in hadith.

    like, you do realize al-Wahhab's brother AND father both called him a liar and denounced his teachings?

    you legitimately have to be crazy to claim wahhabism is even vaguely islamic; they killed the turks and persians but sided with the americans and british lmfaoooo. they are purely a political movement used by the house of Saud to justify their abhorrent crimes by claiming the muslims which they killed to be polytheistic blasphemous apostates.
    Ah the "wahaabi" card. Not very good, you'll have to do better Never heard someone call deos that too. That's a new one.

    Read a book on Tawheed and maybe you'll find you're very wrong lol. Or the beliefs of early Muslims.
    Start with this, I assure you he provides many evidences from Qur'an and hadith

    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    You're proving my point. I can still misuse that one hadith on it's own (like you have) and aslong as the ahmadiyya pray slightly differently. They're open to takfir because hadith won't apply to them.

    This is what happens when people are too eager to back a certain viewpoint and they have to resort to desperateness.
    I don't get what point you have proved other than that you wish to takfir everyone who doesn't subscribe to your one single interpretation. You are being disingenuous as it is quite clear how a Muslim prays. What we are talking of are merely differences of interpretation as to how one should pray. So by your logic, you wish to takfir the majority of Muslims in the world for following a different Madhhab.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by popo111)
    I don't think you understand this very simple principle, no-one on this Earth has the right to judge anyone, especially on their spiritually...

    But of course, you and people of your opinion are but angels flying about...
    We can judge whether someone is Muslim or non-Muslim by their outward actions. I don't know what the deal is it in shiaism but we sunnis do.

    Sorry what?
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    No I don't I said that. I just implied that it was bad for you to team up with someone else just because they also a minority.

    If they died as a ahmadiya who is well aware of their own beliefs and then the beliefs of Islam. They've died a non-Muslim. Their fate in that regard is as any other normal non-muslim who rejects Islam.

    Can I answer my edit in my last post? I think you might've missed it accidentally.
    You're entitled to your opinion regarding when they die, but hoenstly you sound incredibly judgmental and arrogant, inside I really do hope this is some sort of troll

    I have answered it, I am not stooping to your level, I have already said I cannot judge.

    However, I will say they will have some nswering to do though
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mrs.Grey)
    Telling Muslims to break their fast is good?
    Are you serious?

    For the sake of saving lives? Of course it is.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I don't get what point you have proved other than that you wish to takfir everyone who doesn't subscribe to your one single interpretation. You are being disingenuous as it is quite clear how a Muslim prays. What we are talking of are merely differences of interpretation as to how one should pray. So by your logic, you wish to takfir the majority of Muslims in the world for following a different Madhhab.
    No you're not getting the point. I'm not making takfir on anyone for praying differently.

    I'm simply doing an "Epicurean" and deliberately misusing a hadith to dishonestly prove a point. For example, the hadith said "Whoever prays like us...", now with my Epicurean cap on I can say, they don't pray like me because they do this and that in prayer, therefore they are not safe from being declared non-Muslims(notice I'm not saying they're non-Muslims for praying differently).
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    No you're not getting the point. I'm not making takfir on anyone for praying differently.

    I'm simply doing an "Epicurean" and deliberately misusing a hadith to dishonestly prove a point. For example, the hadith said "Whoever prays like us...", now with my Epicurean cap on I can say, they don't pray like me because they do this and that in prayer, therefore they are not safe from being declared non-Muslims(notice I'm not saying they're non-Muslims for praying differently).
    Can you please just stop?

    At the end of the day, it is wrong for anyone to judge. People can believe and call themselves whatever the hell they want.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by popo111)
    You're entitled to your opinion regarding when they die, but hoenstly you sound incredibly judgmental and arrogant, inside I really do hope this is some sort of troll

    I have answered it, I am not stooping to your level, I have already said I cannot judge.

    However, I will say they will have some nswering to do though
    Incredible. Standing up to clear cut kufr of the qadianis means that one is judgement and arrogant now.

    Thats sad. You arent even brave enough to recognize that someone who insults/mocks the Prophet (pbuh) day in day out isn't a Muslim.

    They have some answering to do? Bro why are you judging them now... Leave them alone...
    Like I literally don't understand what your problem is, when I judge, it's bad. When you imply they gna have something coming to them, it's ok?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    Ah the "wahaabi" card. Not very good, you'll have to do better Never heard someone call deos that too. That's a new one.

    Read a book on Tawheed and maybe you'll find you're very wrong lol. Or the beliefs of early Muslims.
    Start with this, I assure you he provides many evidences from Qur'an and hadith

    ironic. have you ever been to india and visited deobandi mosques? they are self-described wahhabis half the time and the current form of the movement itself is inspired strongly by wahhabism.

    you can't just say "ahhagnor the wahaabi card" like read up on their history as well as their theology.

    "They [the Wahhabis] declared war against those who refused and opposed another in joining the army of Muhammad ibn Sa’ud when it was said that it is halal to plunder and kill non-Wahhabis. In 1143, Muhammad ibn Sa’ud and Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab hand in arrived at the conclusion, that those who wouldn’t accept Wahhabism were kafirs and mushriks and it was halal to kill them and confiscate their possessions, and publicly announced their declaration seven years later. Then Ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab started fabricating ijtihad when he was thirty-two years old and announced his false ijtihads at his forty.

    As-Sayyid Ahmad ibn Zaini Dahlan, Mufti of the blessed city of Mecca, described under the topic "Al-fitnat al-Wahhabiyya”the heretical tenest of Wahhabism and the tortures of the Wahhabis inflicted upon Muslims (Al-futuhat al-Islamiyya, v2, p228-233, Cairo 1968) Hw wrote: “To deceive the Ahl as-Sunna ‘ulama’ in Mecca and Medina , the Wahhabis sent their men to cities, but these men could not answer the questions of ulama. It became evident that they were ignorant heretics. A verdict about their being disbleivers was written and issued everywhere. Sharif Mas’ud ibn Sa’id , Amir of Mecca, ordered that the Wahhabis shall be imprisoned. Some Wahhabis fled to Dari’yya and told what had happened to them.

    The ulama of Hijaz belonging to all the four madhhabs, including Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab’s brother Shaikh Sulaiman and also his masters who trained him studied Muhammad’s books, prepared answers to his disunioninst writings, which were distructive to Islam, and wrote, to call the attention of Muslims, well-documented books in refutation to his heretical writings and proclaimed Wahhabite tenets to be heretical and harmful."

    they killed and continue to kill innocent muslims. this is not permitted. it is that simple.
    they literally just interpreted tahwid in such a way to justify the slaughter of other muslims.

    i find it ****ing insane that some muslims support a movement which /literally/ destroyed the tomb of the mother of their prophet along with countless other family members of the prophet.
    if early muslims believed the tombs led to polytheism then why did these tombs survive for so long up until the 20th century? early muslims? how early?
    we know from the persecution of Hussain ibn Ali that the early muslims shortly after the death of muhammad were ravaged with corruption.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    Can you please just stop?

    At the end of the day, it is wrong for anyone to judge. People can believe and call themselves whatever the hell they want.

    Judging people is fine in some situations. People's outward actions are open to scrutiny. They can call themselves whatever they want but people are not necessarily what they call themselves and obviously people will disagree.

    Do you just want me to say they're Muslim and go?
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    Judging people is fine in some situations. People's outward actions are open to scrutiny. They can call themselves whatever they want but people are not necessarily what they call themselves and obviously people will disagree.

    Do you just want me to say they're Muslim and go?
    It's perfectly fine for you to have your beliefs, I by no means am wanting to change that, the argument's just unnecessary now tbh
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    No you're not getting the point. I'm not making takfir on anyone for praying differently.
    So then you can't argue against Ahmadi Muslims based on the Hadith posted by MrsSheldonCooper.Okay, now we have got that sorted.

    I'm simply doing an "Epicurean" and deliberately misusing a hadith to dishonestly prove a point. For example, the hadith said "Whoever prays like us...", now with my Epicurean cap on I can say, they don't pray like me because they do this and that in prayer, therefore they are not safe from being declared non-Muslims(notice I'm not saying they're non-Muslims for praying differently).
    No, you just failed to make a point and are now backtracking. Come on simba.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    [QUOTE=MrsSheldonCooper;65876878]Oh yes I'll admit that was a mistake on my part. I mentioned it was a Hadith later on. Nevertheless, it is looked at by Muslims isn't it?

    Can you please explain how I'm misusing iuse one hadith

    Before i say anything, please explain what ab ahmadiyya is to you?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FluuidKarma)
    ironic. have you ever been to india and visited deobandi mosques? they are self-described wahhabis half the time and the current form of the movement itself is inspired strongly by wahhabism.

    you can't just say "ahhagnor the wahaabi card" like read up on their history as well as their theology.

    "They [the Wahhabis] declared war against those who refused and opposed another in joining the army of Muhammad ibn Sa’ud when it was said that it is halal to plunder and kill non-Wahhabis. In 1143, Muhammad ibn Sa’ud and Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab hand in arrived at the conclusion, that those who wouldn’t accept Wahhabism were kafirs and mushriks and it was halal to kill them and confiscate their possessions, and publicly announced their declaration seven years later. Then Ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab started fabricating ijtihad when he was thirty-two years old and announced his false ijtihads at his forty.

    As-Sayyid Ahmad ibn Zaini Dahlan, Mufti of the blessed city of Mecca, described under the topic "Al-fitnat al-Wahhabiyya”the heretical tenest of Wahhabism and the tortures of the Wahhabis inflicted upon Muslims (Al-futuhat al-Islamiyya, v2, p228-233, Cairo 1968) Hw wrote: “To deceive the Ahl as-Sunna ‘ulama’ in Mecca and Medina , the Wahhabis sent their men to cities, but these men could not answer the questions of ulama. It became evident that they were ignorant heretics. A verdict about their being disbleivers was written and issued everywhere. Sharif Mas’ud ibn Sa’id , Amir of Mecca, ordered that the Wahhabis shall be imprisoned. Some Wahhabis fled to Dari’yya and told what had happened to them.

    The ulama of Hijaz belonging to all the four madhhabs, including Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab’s brother Shaikh Sulaiman and also his masters who trained him studied Muhammad’s books, prepared answers to his disunioninst writings, which were distructive to Islam, and wrote, to call the attention of Muslims, well-documented books in refutation to his heretical writings and proclaimed Wahhabite tenets to be heretical and harmful."

    they killed and continue to kill innocent muslims. this is not permitted. it is that simple.
    they literally just interpreted tahwid in such a way to justify the slaughter of other muslims.

    i find it ****ing insane that some muslims support a movement which /literally/ destroyed the tomb of the mother of their prophet along with countless other family members of the prophet.
    if early muslims believed the tombs led to polytheism then why did these tombs survive for so long up until the 20th century? early muslims? how early?
    we know from the persecution of Hussain ibn Ali that the early muslims shortly after the death of muhammad were ravaged with corruption.
    Not really bro. Most of the times their view is pretty much the same as the scholars of old. Wahaabi is just a term shot at people to devalue their Islam.

    Can you not copy and paste vast texts? It doesn't really help prove what you're getting at.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Do we really have to argue on whether or not the Ahmediyyas are Muslim instead of just acknowledging and appreciating on what they're doing here?

    I blame nucdev.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    It's perfectly fine for you to have your beliefs, I by no means am wanting to change that, the argument's just unnecessary now tbh
    With all due to respect, if you want to end an argument, why not ask anyone else? Why only me? Surely they should button it up aswell?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Do we really have to argue on whether or not the Ahmediyyas are Muslim instead of just acknowledging and appreciating on what they're doing here?

    I blame nucdev.


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    It was bound to happen anyway.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Do we really have to argue on whether or not the Ahmediyyas are Muslim instead of just acknowledging and appreciating on what they're doing here?

    I blame nucdev.
    Lmfaoooooo you know the debate would have naturally happened even if I hadn't have commented, right?

    :rofl:
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scythia)
    With all due to respect, if you want to end an argument, why not ask anyone else? Why only me? Surely they should button it up aswell?
    Just because you and a couple of others were in a debate about it and you were the last to post haha. Nothing personal!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    https://islamqa.info/en/50406

    Re: break fast? to donate blood?

    PS: they don't need to fast at all as they're not Muslims



    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: June 20, 2016
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Are unpaid trial work shifts fair?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.