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    (Original post by Bryci)
    Wonder if you would be tooting this argument if they agreed with your point of view. :holmes:
    No I wouldn't, because I'd know that someone would come along and make precisely the points I've just made

    These experts have zilch credibility on this issue on a number of different levels
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    Experts that are paid by the EU

    Experts that have got it cataclysmically wrong on multiple occasions in the recent past

    Experts that are only commenting on one of a number of issues relevant to this referendum

    Perhaps you should try thinking for yourself.
    If the economics side of things is less important to you than other facets that's fine (e.g. 'sovereignty' which I've heard people saying a lot?), but I cannot see how you can possibly defend "ignore the experts".

    It's like people being told to install an antivirus on Windows - some people who have an understanding of the topic and trade offs (or think they do) may not listen to the advice, but the vast majority of people should probably just accept the advice at face value.
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    (Original post by Chrosson)
    The majority of people *able* to leave are those who can get secure job offers in other countries, i.e. are in demand. Seems a bit odd to not even acknowledge this as a bad thing in isolation (even if mitigated by other benefits you may believe will occur)
    We can lose a few bankers, you never know, the City might actually shed some of its scum As for other sectors, like science and industry, we have a robust, highly developed, world renowned offering, and this segment of the labour-force is much less fleet of foot/more concerned with the quality of their work/society. Keepers
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    (Original post by JoePFR)
    I'll probably look at whether it's feasible to move to another country that doesn't have an impending financial crisis.
    Anywhere outside the Eurozone is the safer bet then.

    Good luck!

    --------------------------------------

    Answering the OP, I'll celebrate by: Doing nothing.

    I'll be happy that (in my opinion) the country's interests have been served, but it's not something to get excited over. I'll just be quietly satisfied that democracy has won and will continue on in the UK while the EU struggles with it's democratic deficit and economic woes.
    I'll feel bad for our cousins inside the EU, hopefully others will be emboldened to follow suit.

    To the remainder if further integration within the EU as it stands is what they want I'll wish them the best of luck and get on with my life.

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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    We can lose a few bankers, you never know, the City might actually shed some of its scum
    Having banks in London is (unfortunately) a net positive to the economy of the UK. If they move elsewhere the UK won't get a slice of the pie. I mean, it certainly could be considered a plus in terms of morality of the country, but taken in isolation it's an unambiguous net negative on the economics side.

    As for other sectors, like science and industry, we have a robust, highly developed, world renowned offering, and this segment of the labour-force is much less fleet of foot/more concerned with the quality of their work/society. Keepers
    My field is technology, so I can only talk about that. London is currently a distant second place to San Francisco...and the only reason it's second at all is because all the banks are here. Remove those and you have a relatively poor startup scene, outposts of American companies and a few UK-based companies.

    Right now there are multiple places trying to become 'the next silicon valley', and brexit would severely impact London's chances - why gather in London if you can effortlessly draw on the skills of all of Europe by setting up elsewhere? The difficulty of immigrating to the US means Europe is an untapped market of technical talent, and we're potentially going to decide it's a good idea to hinder our ability to utilise it.

    How exactly do you measure being fleet of foot? I'd argue that technology workers are very fleet-of-foot because so many of them try to migrate to SF like flies to manure.
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    LOL in your face because it will be Bremain
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    (Original post by TSR Mustafa)
    Anyone else tired of this make Britain again rhetoric , idk what that even means
    We can finally control the curvature of our bananas , oo such a big deal considering the economy is going to take a turn for the worse soon after.
    How so?

    Oh that's right; you're just parroting David Cameron's rhetoric.

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    Brexit won't happen. Trust.
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    (Original post by Chrosson)
    If the economics side of things is less important to you than other facets that's fine (e.g. 'sovereignty' which I've heard people saying a lot?), but I cannot see how you can possibly defend "ignore the experts".

    It's like people being told to install an antivirus on Windows - some people who have an understanding of the topic and trade offs (or think they do) may not listen to the advice, but the vast majority of people should probably just accept the advice at face value.
    The comparison you draw is obviously ridiculous and doesn't merit any further examination

    I have explained why you should not base your decision the advice of experts in the post you have responded to. You have ignored these points and asked me to make them again.

    These are experts that receive money from Brussels, like the IFS, and therefore have a vested interest to advise us to Remain

    These are experts whose previous predictions have proved disastrously wrong on multiple occasions

    For these two reasons you should not place much stock in their opinions on this issue. Instead, you should investigate both sides independently and come to your own conclusions.
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    The comparison you draw is obviously ridiculous and doesn't merit any further examination

    I have explained why you should not base your decision the advice of experts in the post you have responded to. You have ignored these points and asked me to make them again.

    These are experts that receive money from Brussels, like the IFS, and therefore have a vested interest to advise us to Remain

    These are experts whose previous predictions have proved disastrously wrong on multiple occasions

    For these two reasons you should not place much stock in their opinions on this issue. Instead, you should investigate both sides independently and come to your own conclusions.
    I (and most people) would say that the treasury does a decent job the majority of the time, and therefore is a reasonable starting point for a discussion.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...e_eu_print.pdf

    Page 13 shows growth negatively correlated 'uncertainty indicator', Annex A (page 59) gives details of the derivation of the 'uncertainty indicator' and reasoning behind expecting it to increase if the UK leaves the EU (even intuitively this expectation sense, simply because we have no idea what deals we'll be able to make).

    Now, it's perfectly valid to say "I believe this analysis is wrong because X" (i.e. a data-driven decision), but discarding it out of hand because they've previously made mistakes is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Unless you can make a sound critique of the methods (not saying you can't, just saying I haven't seen it), I'd argue that your position is not defensible. "Think for yourself" is a great rallying call, but useless for informed debate.

    Before you complain that the signature on the paper is Osborne's and that's why the report is slanted for remain, I'll also pull up some other things for completeness:
    - the FT thinks that the treasury may have underestimated the brexit impact - https://next.ft.com/content/c15cd060...5-f85cb08b0730
    - this professor thinks that the treasury has overestimated the brexit impact - https://www.city.ac.uk/news/2016/jun...gerated-impact

    The second one is a great example of a good starting point for a rebuttal of the treasury report.
    However, if you honestly believe that every single one of the (majority of, as far as I can see) economists who warn about the consequences of brexit is either corrupt or should be disregarded because in the past some of them made a mistake, I don't really have anything more to say to you - you dismiss an entire field of professionals because of the actions of a few.

    (fwiw I agree with doing your own research, but you won't get very far if you are unable to draw on anything from any existing economist)
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    >thinking brexit will actually happen

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    (Original post by Josb)
    Is it a bad thing that house prices will go down? For me it's the best outcome of Brexit.

    I don't think Ireland will refuse a new border agreement with the UK. I'm more worried about getting a trade deal with China in time.
    Didn't say house prices coming down is a bad thing - although given a lot of people have their money tied up in property, a housing market crash could be financially devastating. Giving Sturgeon and Adams a mandate to hold indyref 2.0 and restart the Irish reunification debate (marching season is bad enough over there when it's just empty bluster) is not a price worth paying though.


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    (Original post by Josb)
    You're not British?
    Nope, still only 17
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Is it a bad thing that house prices will go down? For me it's the best outcome of Brexit.
    I'm afraid it isn't. Because the majority of the country's personal wealth is tied up in housing, any fall in house prices has a huge impact on consumer confidence and thus on the economy. We are in the bizarre situation that it is in the interests of people who can't afford houses to keep houses unaffordable.

    To get us out of this, houses need to be made, slowly, less attractive vis-a-vis commercial property, equities and bonds as a store of wealth.



    I don't think Ireland will refuse a new border agreement with the UK.
    Ireland will wish to return to the pre-Troubles position. Many people in Ireland fear a return to the border security of the Troubles. The fly in the ointment is Schengen. Airports are geared up to intra-EU non-Schengen flights because of the size and economic power of the UK. If the UK goes and doesn't join the EEA, Ireland may be forced by the rest of the EU to join Schengen (which will massively cut airport costs across Europe) in which case NI will have to decide whether it wants to be inside or outside the Schengen border.
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    Experts that are paid by the EU

    Experts that have got it cataclysmically wrong on multiple occasions in the recent past

    Experts that are only commenting on one of a number of issues relevant to this referendum

    Perhaps you should try thinking for yourself.
    Leave don't have any worthwhile arguments so they attack the messengers instead.
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    (Original post by Chrosson)
    If they move elsewhere the UK won't get a slice of the pie
    Banks don't move in unison, and the financial services sector is way, way bigger/more diversified, than the sabre rattling JP Morgans of this world

    My field is technology .. only reason it's second at all is because all the banks are here. Remove those and you have a relatively poor startup scene
    1) Banks won't all up and run, just a portion of elite IB douchebros; 2) Why are we seeing Birmingham, and other cities, starting to become technology hubs?; What about Scandinavia etc?

    why gather in London if you can effortlessly draw on the skills of all of Europe by setting up elsewhere
    I agree. The UK, and Europe, have become too London-centric. Needs to be a rebalancing, in the interests of equality/to counter-spatial decline

    How exactly do you measure being fleet of foot?
    Look at the means, attitudes, ties, and lifestyle behaviours of concerned groups, and compare
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Banks don't move in unison, and the financial services sector is way, way bigger/more diversified, than the sabre rattling JP Morgans of this world

    1) Banks won't all up and run, just a portion of elite IB douchebros; 2) Why are we seeing Birmingham, and other cities, starting to become technology hubs?; What about Scandinavia etc?

    I agree. The UK, and Europe, have become too London-centric. Needs to be a rebalancing, in the interests of equality/to counter-spatial decline

    Look at the means, attitudes, ties, and lifestyle behaviours of concerned groups, and compare
    People who are right of centre like you regularly claim that if we were to raise taxes or the minimum wage, our businesses would leave.

    Yet when people claim the same about the EU, you accuse them of scaremongering.

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    I shall be opening my best bottle of whiskey and I'll share it with my rather pro-remain neighbour

    Now I hope this won't have to be postponed.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Leave don't have any worthwhile arguments so they attack the messengers instead.
    Yoi have said this to me three times now and have failed to develop your point at all folowing responses. I don't know of a more tedious poster I've interacted with in this debate so far.

    It is perfectly relevant to point out that these experts have had their opinions bought by the EU and have got appalling track records of economic forecasting. This is not ad hominem, it is entirely pertinent criticism of the reliability of their postions.

    As for not having any worthwhile arguments, I have put some before you several times but you seem incapable of registering anything which is inconvenient to your determination to see all Leave supporters as mentally deficient spawn of the anti-christ. Here is a link to one such argument: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...685&highlight=
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    Voted remain

 
 
 
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