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Remain are free to go and live in another EU country Watch

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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    But..... why? We already have an FTA with the single biggest economy in the world.
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    why do we need our own FTAs? why fix something that isn't broken? how has access to the single market affected your life negatively in any way ever? this 500-million-strong trading bloc was the best deal we could have got.
    Both of these comments are beyond stupid. We had an FTA with the EU but if we wanted any deals with the rest of the world they needed to go through the EU. Do you know how long the EU takes to sort out trade deals? Roughly 10 years. Do you know how long Canada takes roughly? 2 years.

    So, yes, leaving the EU is in our interests because in the time it takes the EU to sort out one trade deal on behalf we could arrange multiple on our own with the wider world. We could arrange trade deals with China, something the EU has stagnated on. We can get it done ourselves rather than have deals continuously vetoed by other countries.

    The access to the single market, whilst cutting ourselves off from countries like China, India, Japan etc. has negatively had an impact on all of our lives. Purchasing goods in those countries would be much cheaper which could lead to cheaper consumer goods, but don't let the facts get in the way of the nonsense you're both talking.



    Blue - EU free market
    Dark Green - Agreement signed
    Light Green - provisionally agreed

    Other countries, no actual deal yet. Absurd.

    So in that list of countries the EU has no deal with we have China, USA, Brazil, India, Australia, New Zealand, Russia and Indonesia.

    Of course, missing out on a combined market of 3,886,411,369 is clearly a great thing for business. I don't know what level of stupid you have to be to believe that honestly. When factoring in all the other countries we could deal with you're looking at over 4 billion people but hey ho, who wants to all those potential customers or cheaper products? Furthermore, we could be using economic ties to improve our ties with countries like Russia.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Both of these comments are beyond stupid. We had an FTA with the EU but if we wanted any deals with the rest of the world they needed to go through the EU. Do you know how long the EU takes to sort out trade deals? Roughly 10 years. Do you know how long Canada takes roughly? 2 years.

    So, yes, leaving the EU is in our interests because in the time it takes the EU to sort out one trade deal on behalf we could arrange multiple on our own with the wider world. We could arrange trade deals with China, something the EU has stagnated on. We can get it done ourselves rather than have deals continuously vetoed by other countries.

    The access to the single market, whilst cutting ourselves off from countries like China, India, Japan etc. has negatively had an impact on all of our lives. Purchasing goods in those countries would be much cheaper which could lead to cheaper consumer goods, but don't let the facts get in the way of the nonsense you're both talking.



    Blue - EU free market
    Dark Green - Agreement signed
    Light Green - provisionally agreed

    Other countries, no actual deal yet. Absurd.

    So in that list of countries the EU has no deal with we have China, USA, Brazil, India, Australia, New Zealand, Russia and Indonesia.

    Of course, missing out on a combined market of 3,886,411,369 is clearly a great thing for business. I don't know what level of stupid you have to be to believe that honestly. When factoring in all the other countries we could deal with you're looking at over 4 billion people but hey ho, who wants to all those potential customers or cheaper products? Furthermore, we could be using economic ties to improve our ties with countries like Russia.
    Your main argument is that the EU takes too long to establish these deals with countries such as India, China, Japan etc., so we're missing out. But what about all the laws and deals that the UK will have to renegotiate with all 27 countries in the EU now that we're going to leave? That will take upwards of 10 years to totally complete. And if Scotland and NI leave the UK, we'll no longer be an attractive target for countries outside the EU anyway.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Sure, I'll just need to wait a few years for the pound to recover since it's currently worth less than it's been for 40 years.
    That is factually incorrect as, against the US dollar, it was at about the same level in 2009.

    Against the euro, of course, it stands higher than it ever was between late 2008 and mid-2015.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Your main argument is that the EU takes too long to establish these deals with countries such as India, China, Japan etc., so we're missing out. But what about all the laws and deals that the UK will have to renegotiate with all 27 countries in the EU now that we're going to leave? That will take upwards of 10 years to totally complete. And if Scotland and NI leave the UK, we'll no longer be an attractive target for countries outside the EU anyway.
    No, it wont take 10 years. As I said earlier, most other countries (Canada given as an example) take roughly 2 years to negotiate a trade deal. Within that 10 year window we could negotiate deals with the USA, China, India, Russia and Brazil, with a potential customer base that absolutely dwarfs the EU.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    No, it wont take 10 years. As I said earlier, most other countries (Canada given as an example) take roughly 2 years to negotiate a trade deal. Within that 10 year window we could negotiate deals with the USA, China, India, Russia and Brazil, with a potential customer base that absolutely dwarfs the EU.
    Being a member of the EU meant that the UK already had good and growing access to emerging and other markets through the EU’s extensive range of free trade deals. As an EU member, we were part of a far bigger, more powerful trading area and a stronger economic bloc in negotiations than the UK would be alone. So we don’t have to choose between trading with the EU and trading with emerging markets, we can do both. For example, UK exports of goods to China more than doubled between 2010 and 2015. You're talking rubbish.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Being a member of the EU meant that the UK already had good and growing access to emerging and other markets through the EU’s extensive range of free trade deals.
    I laughed.

    The EU has no deals with the largest markets in the world. No deals with China, Russia, India, USA, Australia etc.

    As an EU member, we were part of a far bigger, more powerful trading area and a stronger economic bloc in negotiations than the UK would be alone.
    Incorrect. Numerous countries continuously veto deals to stop them occurring which is actually detrimental and stops deals being agreed, many of which would have enormously benefited the UK. The UK will be fine in negotiations on its own.

    So we don’t have to choose between trading with the EU and trading with emerging markets, we can do both. For example, UK exports of goods to China more than doubled between 2010 and 2015. You're talking rubbish.
    So what about Russia? We are negatively impacted by the politically motivated sanctions imposed on a large market. We have no deals with many of the other major players in the world. Its not rubbish. Its the EU's failure to do business due to its own systematic issues that has contributed to ridiculously slow growth in the EEA.
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    You goon... so you expect everyone to go away and work in different countries if they're not happy? Yeah a fat lot of good that'd do to the UK economy and work force.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    I'll believe it when I see Germany and France, who are currently doing better than us, in trouble.
    By what measure? Taking a cue from your use of "currently", growth in the UK was 2.2% in 2015. In France and Germany it was 1.2% and 1.7%.

    Looking forward, Germany has to find £3 billion a year to replace the UK's EU budget contribution while worrying about its exports to the UK after the EU, we are threatened, insists on trade tariffs, all while finding ways to accommodate and assimilate the people it has allowed to flood across the continent in such huge numbers.

    The fall in sterling and the addition of reciprocal tariffs combined adds 20% to the price of a German car in Britain, while making British cars no dearer for continental buyers. That seems like a recipe for increased UK growth.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    By what measure? Taking a cue from your use of "currently", growth in the UK was 2.2% in 2015. In France and Germany it was 1.2% and 1.7%.

    Looking forward, Germany has to find £3 billion a year to replace the UK's EU budget contribution while worrying about its exports to the UK after the EU, we are threatened, insists on trade tariffs, all while finding ways to accommodate and assimilate the people it has allowed to flood across the continent in such huge numbers.

    The fall in sterling and the addition of reciprocal tariffs combined adds 20% to the price of a German car in Britain, while making British cars no dearer for continental buyers. That seems like a recipe for increased UK growth.
    It'll take 20 years for us to overtake Germany, longer now because of Brexit. And France is dogging at our heels, also due to Brexit.

    And I said when Germany and France are in trouble, not slightly miffed about us leaving the EU. They don't need to find an extra £3bn, we just left, so they don't have to pay us anymore with structural funds.

    I'm not even going to dignify that ridiculous immigration comment. Its truly disheartening to see such economic illiteracy and general ignorance about the way the world works, immigration will likely increase in the short term in the UK anyway, and any EU migrants will be topped up with international ones once we properly leave, because UKIP has no parliamentary power.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    They don't need to find an extra £3bn, we just left, so they don't have to pay us anymore with structural funds.
    They will have to replace the net British contribution. Obviously. Germany's share has been reported as £2 billion (3 billion euros, not pounds as I mistakenly said earlier).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...e-by-2bn-afte/

    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    I'm not even going to dignify that ridiculous immigration comment.
    Ridiculous? You don't think that there will be any social, economic or political costs to allowing a million people into the EU in about a year then?

    The social costs are being reported on a daily basis. The economic costs are obvious - someone must feed, educate and house them. The political costs will come when the British exit encourages other countries to rebel against Angela Merkel's bout of self-immolation. Germany will be going through a very difficult patch if it is to keep the EU together, of that there is no doubt.

    And we haven't even mentioned the financial problems with Greece, Spain and Portugal.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Those who've had the least experience with immigration seem to oppose it to the most. And unfortunately for a lot of Welsh people I feel it comes from sheer racism.
    Actually, most places that voted leave are outside Westminster. Westminster has lost touch with the rest of the country, it is London vs the rest which is why many places such as Birmingham (which is ethnically diverse area (from first-hand experience)) have voted Leave. People are fed up of everything being centralised and it was an act of defiance.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    They will have to replace the net British contribution. Obviously. Germany's share has been reported as £2 billion (3 billion euros, not pounds as I mistakenly said earlier).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...e-by-2bn-afte/



    Ridiculous? You don't think that there will be any social, economic or political costs to allowing a million people into the EU in about a year then?

    The social costs are being reported on a daily basis. The economic costs are obvious - someone must feed, educate and house them. The political costs will come when the British exit encourages other countries to rebel against Angela Merkel's bout of self-immolation. Germany will be going through a very difficult patch if it is to keep the EU together, of that there is no doubt.

    And we haven't even mentioned the financial problems with Greece, Spain and Portugal.
    That is a choice the German government has made, independently of the EU, they believe there is some sort of benefit in doing this.

    No, I don't think there is any costs, they come here to work, and they pay for their own bloody housing. And what the bloody hell has European immigrants going to other European countries got to do with rebelling against Angela Merkel!?! Jesus Christ this is a joke. Please stop.
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    Dw OP, I will. Dual citizenship; hopefully a first class degree from a top world university; and proficiency in four European languages will ensure I get on very well. I expect the UK will begin to experience a brain drain much like that in East Germany during the first half of the Cold War.

    (Original post by Withengar)
    Don't worry - a lot of competent, young, sensible, intelligent people will leave. Which leaves you with what? An ageing, prejudiced and increasingly impoverished population.

    Funny how you only mention the issues of the countries of the EU and don't mention those that are doing far better then you are - France, Germany, Denmark, the Nederlands and so on. Cognitive bias at its best (or worst?). You don't mention France's healthcare system, which makes the NHS look like a joke and which is the best in the world. You don't mention Germany's lead in all major categories - from the rights of women and minorities to the standard of living and free university education. You don't mention it because it will make the horror of your impending isolation and decline all the more real. It will make your own cognitive dissonance turn against you.

    In the end, quite ironically, Britain was not devastated by Napoleon's Grand Armee, Kaiser's U-Boats or Hitler's Heinkels and Dorniers. It was devastated by empty, senseless, dangerous jump into the abyss it will never be able to recover from.
    This was beautiful. PRSOM.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    That is a choice the German government has made, independently of the EU, they believe there is some sort of benefit in doing this.

    No, I don't think there is any costs, they come here to work, and they pay for their own bloody housing. And what the bloody hell has European immigrants going to other European countries got to do with rebelling against Angela Merkel!?! Jesus Christ this is a joke. Please stop.
    No. The Syrians travel across the EU, to get to Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands, and Merkel seeks to offload them onto other countries in the EU (who, in many cases, are less than keen). It is an EU problem as the Schengen countries agreed to do it.

    The refugees cannot pay for themselves as they cannot work. Do you know anything about this? Surely you know that?

    I suggest you do a bit of research on the subject.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    StockMarketWire.com - The FTSE 100 recovered from the initial shock of Britain's decision to leave the European Union to end 3.15% lower at 6,138.69 which, in terms of context, is higher than last Friday's close.

    Oh look, just as I predicted. There's a surprise.
    How much relevance does the FTSE100 have to the UK economy, if you list the 100 companies by market cap (how they are weighted in the index) and then check how much of their business they do in the UK you will see they are a pretty poor bellweather proxy. The 250 is a closer measure for the UK.

    Of the bigger components of the FTSE 100 , Shell, HSBC,BAT,BP, SAB Miller,Glaxo, Voda how much of their activity is actually UK activity.

    Companies like Shell are a shelter against sterling, they trade in dollars as of course does the oil industry, I purchased more Shell yesterday to try to capture higher UK income as the dividend is declared in dollars, they only dropped 0.29%. So you need to look well beyond the index and look at the components, those that were more UK and Europe oriented fell far more, Standard Life fell 17.3% (I bought on the drop)!!!!!!
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    (Original post by IFoundWonderland)
    I expect the UK will begin to experience a brain drain much like that in East Germany during the first half of the Cold War.
    Like Australia and Canada, right? What backward countries. Oh wait, no for years whilst IN THE EU we've needed Indian doctors to compensate for our own doctors leaving to go to these countries in their droves. The EU was contributing to a brain drain. Doctors were leaving for a better quality of life elsewhere whilst income inequality across the EU zone has risen by 10%.

    More nonsensical apocalyptic predictions coming........the remain side never learn.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    No. The Syrians travel across the EU, to get to Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands, and Merkel seeks to offload them onto other countries in the EU (who, in many cases, are less than keen). It is an EU problem as the Schengen countries agreed to do it.

    The refugees cannot pay for themselves as they cannot work. Do you know anything about this? Surely you know that?

    I suggest you do a bit of research on the subject.
    Wow, the Syrian refugee crisis has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. They will come whether or not an institution known as the EU exists, and its up to the individual member state to decide whether they want them or not, hence Eastern Europe has said no. Are you going to start blaming Islamic State on the EU as well?

    I suggest to you stop, you really have no idea.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    Wow, the Syrian refugee crisis has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. They will come whether or not an institution known as the EU exists, and its up to the individual member state to decide whether they want them or not, hence Eastern Europe has said no. Are you going to start blaming Islamic State on the EU as well?

    I suggest to you stop, you really have no idea.
    There wouldn't be a European refugee crisis without the EU. It would be where it belongs: in Syria and its neighbours, who would be being assisted by Europeans.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    If you do not wish to live in a sovereign UK then you are free to exercise your democratic right and go and live out your European fantasy in another EU country.

    You can apply for a temporary residency permit, then continue applying for extensions until you will eventually be granted indefinite leave to remain, which is most likely going to be one of the terms of negotiation agreed between the UK and EU.

    You have a large window of time to save up some money, prepare and then leave the UK to go and live your EU fantasy elsewhere. Nobody is holding you back but yourself so why aren't any of you doing it? Why are you whinging at the outcome of a democratic referendum?

    We'd like to get on with things here and reach out to our global partners, initiate free trade agreements, bring highly skilled migrants here who add pure value to our country and also, we'd like to remove the regulations and red tape that cripple small and medium sized businesses.

    If you'd prefer joining the mass unemployment heap in Spain, austerity in Greece or far right religious extremism in Poland then you are free to leave the UK. Nobody is stopping you leaving, flying the European flag in your bedroom window and singing the anthem as you prepare yourself for life in your newfound European utopia.

    The vast majority of the remain campaign will not do so because they are not as EU minded as they say they are and prefer to make the entire thing about them and how marginalised they are. This is not about the result but how they want to make themselves feel superior to everyone else. This is what they always do.

    Oh well, no one cares about your tears. Get over it!
    i think the intellectual flight has already begun.

    post eu britain will be fine - roll back to the 1940s, the 'ultra national pride of brits' and 'newfound sovereignty' will overcome the lack of brain power left in the country to run the banks, civil service ,business and industry and draw money into the economy.
 
 
 
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