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Sturgeon says Scotland could try to block UK withdrawal from the EU Watch

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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    I wasn't actually talking about keeping the entirety of the U.K. in, frankly I think you lot should be forced to lie in the bed you've just made, but rather trying to find a way in which Scotland remains in the EU and maintains ties with the UK, not least since nationalism was a poor idea when oil prices were strong.
    But that's never going to be possible.The EU is an organisation of member-states.

    the better together campaign were quite clear that to stay in the EU, they had to vote no.
    Which was entirely true. If we had voted Yes in Scotland, we'd have been out of the EU in March this year when the SNP proposed we would become independent. It was right to stand against that.

    particularly given at ~8 months before the general election the plans for an EU referendum to kill off party disputes that Cameron planned would have been taking shape, was rather unfaithful.
    It was well known in 2014 that the Conservative Party would propose an EU referendum after the 2015 election. Indeed, a fairly substantial majority of the Scottish public supported that aspiration.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Wouldn't play out that way, seceding from a non member state and joining, and seceding from a member state and joining are entirely different scenarios.


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    How so?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    But that's never going to be possible.The EU is an organisation of member-states.
    Yes it is but only one of the four countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and only one of the three countries of the Kingdom of Denmark are members of the EU.

    I think the thing that all posters here are overlooking is that the EU has been an immensely flexible structure where the political will has been present to do things. "That isn't allowed" has almost always been a political response.
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    Tusk won't negogiate with Scotland until the UK actually activates the article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty
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    (Original post by InvestmentBankin)
    Tusk won't negogiate with Scotland until the UK actually activates the article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty
    Tusk won't negotiate with anyone until that happens.

    It is inconceivable that the EU will negotiate with Scotland behind the UK government's back. It is not inconceivable that the UK government would accredit a Scottish sub-delegation.

    The nearest situation to the situation Scotland wants that I can find is Saint Pierre et Miquelon. That was an integral part of France which left to become a French overseas territory without ceasing to be a member of the EU.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Yes it is but only one of the four countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and only one of the three countries of the Kingdom of Denmark are members of the EU.

    I think the thing that all posters here are overlooking is that the EU has been an immensely flexible structure where the political will has been present to do things. "That isn't allowed" has almost always been a political response.
    Let's not get carried away here. We're talking chiefly about the distinction between areas with"Overseas Countries and Territories status within the EU and parts that have special status that more closely integrates them. None are "members".

    You're right that there's an inherent level of flexibility there - but these are overseas territories of member-states. The EU is a treaty organisation where the member-state is the basic unit. It's not legally credible without changing the entire structure of the EU to allow something like this - and even then, I do not see, legally, how it could be done.

    Just as importantly, it raises huge political questions: how would we allow free movement in one part of the UK and not another, how could you ensure origin of goods is consistent. The only way to do that would be a full closed border within a country, which is pretty loopy.
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    (Original post by InvestmentBankin)
    Tusk won't negogiate with Scotland until the UK actually activates the article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty
    Tusk won't negotiate with "Scotland" (I assume you mean the Scottish Government here) after the triggering of Article 50 either. His responsibility is to member-states.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Let's not get carried away here. We're talking chiefly about the distinction between areas with"Overseas Countries and Territories status within the EU and parts that have special status that more closely integrates them. None are "members".

    You're right that there's an inherent level of flexibility there - but these are overseas territories of member-states. The EU is a treaty organisation where the member-state is the basic unit. It's not legally credible without changing the entire structure of the EU to allow something like this - and even then, I do not see, legally, how it could be done.
    No you misunderstand. The United Kingdom is a member state. The United Kingdom comprises four countries all of which are part of the EU. In addition the UK has a number of dependent territories, only one of which, Gibraltar, is part of the EU.

    The Kingdom of the Netherlands is also a member state. The Kingdom comprises four landen, the Netherlands, Aruba, Curacao and Sint Martaan of which only one, the Netherlands is part of the EU.

    The Kingdom of Denmark is also a member state. The Kingdom comprises three constituant countries Denmark, Greenland and the Faroes. Demark is, Greenland was and the Faroes has never been a part of the EU.

    These are not overseas territories as Gibraltar is an overseas territory; they are integral parts of the states concerned. Moreover in the case of the Netherlands landen there are parts of it Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba which are geographically separated from the mainland in the same way that the Isle of Wight is geographically separate from but an integral part of England and as such part of the UK.

    Just as importantly, it raises huge political questions: how would we allow free movement in one part of the UK and not another, how could you ensure origin of goods is consistent. The only way to do that would be a full closed border within a country, which is pretty loopy.
    Yes you are right but here have since the Unions been more restrictions on the Anglo-Scottish border and across the Irish Sea than most people give credit for.
 
 
 
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