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I played the (stock) markets today, and only lost £7.50, not too shabby? watch

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    (Original post by Axion)
    John,

    Don't spend $300 on a video course, it won't be worth it. Buy yourself a book for £10 to £30. There are loads out there, The Intelligent Investor, The Naked Trader etc etc. They are infinitely better than a video course, which I guarantee will be overpriced. In fact, buy both of those two books. The second is more accessible to start, and the first can be read afterwards. Even if you decide you don't want to go into the market, they are good reads.

    On your second point, there is no systematic pattern to what the markets do that can be determined as easily as that. Sure, there are some patterns that repeat - these are what algorithms try to detect - but these can break at a moment's notice, and I assure you that they certainly aren't as simple as start low at 8am, go high by 4.35pm!
    Thanks good advice.

    (Original post by LPauling)
    How did you go about starting to trade?
    Just from learning what people have been telling me, and watching the odd video!
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Thanks good advice.



    Just from learning what people have been telling me, and watching the odd video!
    Like I mean how what website or how did you do it?
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    some websites, i will pm you the names, because tsr don't like me publicly talking about them...
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    I've decided to use trading212 but I don't want to use any real money. It's said free £10000 free practise account but it says below the sign up details '*your capital is at risk', any ideas?

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    (Original post by Rhyss01)
    I've decided to use trading212 but I don't want to use any real money. It's said free £10000 free practise account but it says below the sign up details '*your capital is at risk', any ideas?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    All brokers with FCA licenses are obligated to include such a warning. As per my knowledge it's mandatory. If you browse through the websites of other FCA regulated brokers such as FXCM, Cmc markets, Fxpro, etc. you'll find warning like that on every single one of them.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    My dad and mum don't know very much about money i'm afraid. Specifically my dad, when i told him that i was getting in to the stock market, he told me that he wouldn't talk about it, but that it was foolish. Then i lost a small percent, and pulled the lot out, at a loss i might add. I will consider reinvesting at some point, i am even thinking about spending $300 on a 'learn the market' course by barry burns.I have already watched some of his videos, and he seems to know what he is talking about.

    To be honest with you, the last time i looked, the markets started low and went up throughout the day. So if i could get up in time, this would make sense as the right time to buy and sell. My only problem is that i struggle to sleep at the right time, sadly!
    You need to learn how to invest and not trade, trying to time the markets and go in and out can be one of the most dangerous things if done wrong.

    All you should be doing is looking to buy a great company at a great price and then holding the stock forever. The dividends over time will pay back your initial investment. The best thing to do is reinvest your dividends, so buy more stock of another great company at a great price.

    When I buy stocks I am planning to hold them forever, no shorter time period. The only time I will sell is if I really need the money or if I feel the company has lost its ability to generate money.

    Markets are very volatile over a short time period, say 1-2 years, yes that is considered a short time period in investing. When you hold a stock for more than 5 years, you will see a gradual growth emerging in most good companies. Over a 10 year period the growth is very evident, and the stock price would be 5/6/7/8/9 times what you payed for it 10 years ago.

    Why you lost money is because you essentially held the stock for a short period of time, you need to have the idea you will be holding forever.

    Great businesses like coca cola and shell have returned 10 fold to investors who have held for 20-25 years. Investing is a game of patience.

    I suggest you read up everything you can about Warren Buffett and in particular the Intelligent Investor, a book by Benjamin Graham.
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    (Original post by fg45344)
    You need to learn how to invest and not trade, trying to time the markets and go in and out can be one of the most dangerous things if done wrong.

    All you should be doing is looking to buy a great company at a great price and then holding the stock forever. The dividends over time will pay back your initial investment. The best thing to do is reinvest your dividends, so buy more stock of another great company at a great price.

    When I buy stocks I am planning to hold them forever, no shorter time period. The only time I will sell is if I really need the money or if I feel the company has lost its ability to generate money.

    Markets are very volatile over a short time period, say 1-2 years, yes that is considered a short time period in investing. When you hold a stock for more than 5 years, you will see a gradual growth emerging in most good companies. Over a 10 year period the growth is very evident, and the stock price would be 5/6/7/8/9 times what you payed for it 10 years ago.

    Why you lost money is because you essentially held the stock for a short period of time, you need to have the idea you will be holding forever.

    Great businesses like coca cola and shell have returned 10 fold to investors who have held for 20-25 years. Investing is a game of patience.

    I suggest you read up everything you can about Warren Buffett and in particular the Intelligent Investor, a book by Benjamin Graham.
    I hope you're not talking about trading cfds. The case with them is completely different. You need to put a tremendous amount of money in your account to assure enough margin and to make sure your trade will survive the expected volatility. That's theoretical case of course and such a strategy is completely impossible in retail cfds trading in my humble opinion. Never heard of a trader who closed their trade 20 years after opening it. Markets move constantly, rapidly and aggressively, e.g. due to Brexit and not only. Retail traders can't afford the unbelievable amounts needed for margin (otherwise they won't be retail traders, right). Cfds trading strategy is simple - study the market using some sort of analysis (fundamental, technical, sentiment or some sort of a mix), open small positions with let's say 5% of your funds and always put SL and TP.
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    (Original post by John85)
    I hope you're not talking about trading cfds. The case with them is completely different. You need to put a tremendous amount of money in your account to assure enough margin and to make sure your trade will survive the expected volatility. That's theoretical case of course and such a strategy is completely impossible in retail cfds trading in my humble opinion. Never heard of a trader who closed their trade 20 years after opening it. Markets move constantly, rapidly and aggressively, e.g. due to Brexit and not only. Retail traders can't afford the unbelievable amounts needed for margin (otherwise they won't be retail traders, right). Cfds trading strategy is simple - study the market using some sort of analysis (fundamental, technical, sentiment or some sort of a mix), open small positions with let's say 5% of your funds and always put SL and TP.
    I don't trade, I invest. I don't need stop losses as I don't care about the stock price. All I want is growing dividends.
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    (Original post by fg45344)
    I don't trade, I invest. I don't need stop losses as I don't care about the stock price. All I want is growing dividends.
    Fair enough. However, I think cfds trading and stock investing need to be separated and clarified, as they are completely different things. As far as I can tell this topic is regarding cfds retail trading. Please excuse me in case I'm being wrong.
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    (Original post by John85)
    Fair enough. However, I think cfds trading and stock investing need to be separated and clarified, as they are completely different things. As far as I can tell this topic is regarding cfds retail trading. Please excuse me in case I'm being wrong.
    Ok I just read CFDs allow you to go short, sell something you don't own. The only people that benefits is traders and like I said, I don't trade.

    I'm telling OP that he needs to stop trading and start investing. He should be holding his investments for long time periods, not selling the next day.
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    (Original post by John85)
    All brokers with FCA licenses are obligated to include such a warning. As per my knowledge it's mandatory. If you browse through the websites of other FCA regulated brokers such as FXCM, Cmc markets, Fxpro, etc. you'll find warning like that on every single one of them.
    Thanks, just to clarify this practise account will have nothing to do with my actual money?
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    (Original post by Rhyss01)
    Thanks, just to clarify this practise account will have nothing to do with my actual money?
    If you don't put the money in, how can it.
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    (Original post by DJKL)
    You take the hit in a money purchase scheme, whatever is bought is your risk, though there is compensation, I think, if they run away with the money, but that does not happen

    Final salary schemes are different, the employer's scheme promises to pay usually 1/60th or 1/80th of your final salary usually index linked for each year of service, if you do become a lecturer I think that will be sort of scheme employer may offer (Civil service, teachers, public servants etc tend to get offered these at present, private sector now very scarce) If they become unfunded there is a scheme but you do take a hit, see recent BHS news.

    Do remember that the pension office money purchase funds are pretty spread re where invested so single share risk is tiny, where money does leak is charges (bid offer spread etc)

    Sometimes with money purchase compensation can be offered, but that was more re with profit funds (equitable life paid my wife re a small fund she had with them) and whilst WP were popular in the 1980s (My Standard Life started as one) they have since fallen out of favour.

    I have said for years all of this ought to be explained at school, plus basic tax, benefits, NI etc, it is a real shame it is not. I was lucky, my father was a solicitor and was financially savvy, so I picked up a lot from him (plus through work), I work with people in their 40s with no pensions, no long term savings, the only thing they own is part of their house, and they somehow think come 65-66-67 it will be alright, it will not, they will be working into their 70s as they will not be able to afford to stop.

    Thanks for the SIPP advice!

    FTSE 100 is on a roll today, I'm calling it to get to 7000 by the end of the year. The more certainty we get in these next few months, the more the market will rally.

    Legal and General will probably hit resistance at around 230/240p.

    I think the market now is moving away from cheap to a more fair price, there are a few great buys still left but they are vanishing pretty quickly. Better buy up now before everything gets expensive.
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    (Original post by Rhyss01)
    Thanks, just to clarify this practise account will have nothing to do with my actual money?
    Yup, the demo is completely separate and in no relation to any real funds. This works the same with every broker offering it. The idea is to play around with it and to open a real account with actual funds sooner or later.
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    If you play the stock markets, you are a fool. It's a mug's game and you'll lose money at the end of the day. What you guys do is no different to horse race betting
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    (Original post by john2054)
    I played the (stock) markets today, and only lost £7.50, not too shabby?

    I was actually down £10 right away because of a bad deal i made, so then i tried to get some of this back.

    I was actually down around £13/14 at one point, but made some good money on a buy of the pound against the dollar, and sold when the pound was strong, then again with gold, meaning that i only lost £7.50 altogether. I think that this is quite good going huh? For someone who has never traded before i mean??
    You sure showed them!
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    (Original post by I feel myself)
    If you play the stock markets, you are a fool. It's a mug's game and you'll lose money at the end of the day. What you guys do is no different to horse race betting
    The following post was written by TSR member DJKL and all credit goes to these words of wisdom!


    No it is not, sports gambling is a win/lose wager, and with horse racing you do not even get to keep some of the manure.

    The stockmarket (excepting punts in the short term ) is a long play.

    My criteria (except for the odd small punt)

    1. Buy stocks you will be happy to hold for a minimum five years, you may not intend a five year hold but buy those that if the price moves against you will not make you uncomfortable. The stock paying a dividend helps, but high yields are not the be all and end all, a very high yield can be telling you something. Do look at dividend cover and beware companies that every year have vast exceptionals that significantly impact difference between basic EPS and adjusted EPS, if every year they are miles apart do much more digging.

    2. Remember that the norm is you never lose all your money, unlike betting, usually you can exit with some of your stake returned. If you use stop losses you can mitigate the downside but you need a wide margin re volatile stocks to avoid being constantly auto sold.

    3.Moving your stop loss up if the price has increased is a good way to protect some of your gains.

    4. Never fall in love with a share, it is really easy to do, if you do fall in love not penny/aim stocks, they can break your heart. I have a running love affair with Shell but it is a big beast with a long dividend record, I probably always hold some as a core and buy extra if I think it is undervalued (the minus 2% this morning was such an event, it was in profit by close)

    5. Spread risk, very tricky if you have limited stake, you do not want all eggs in one basket. If very restricted re money/transaction costs will be an issue, consider Investment Trusts as slow burners. I do not like unit trusts but that is possibly in the main prejudice (except re property, they are dangerous with illiquid assets, as we are currently seeing) ITs also good way to get exposure into foreign markets etc, I use them for this purpose.

    6.Be careful in current market, it is very difficult to predict with the current macroeconomics/ political events (banks, property, exchange risk, contagion issues etc abound) There are very few 100% certs re economies but you do need to keep an eye on macroeconomic news and formulate what might happen if x happens-in my case, despite some study at university, I still misread market signals, so caveat emptor; remember markets can be irrational for quite a long time. (dotcom boom)

    7. Never believe that because a share was once priced at X it can retest that figure if it has fallen, a past price merely tells you that at some time some people valued it at X, nothing more.

    8. Understanding accounts is imho important, but I would say that, accountancy is how I earn a living. But it is helpful to be able to read published accounts (forget the five line summaries on your brokers site, delve deep)

    9. Always be prepared to cut your losses, see 4 above. Be careful of falling knives, if the market has priced downward it may have good reason, ensure you understand why it has taken the view it has.

    10. Despite fundamentals, P/E, Gordon Models, etc, always remember that the term profit is a vague concept, how/when an entity decides it has made a profit whilst subject to accounting regulation, is not exact. So when you look at the company with reported earnings and profits over 3-5 years dig into its cashflows, these are far more difficult to massage.

    There are a loads of other things to look for, study, read, delve into accounts, look at RNS stories, use bulletin boards but with great care, watch and observe to decide who seems to talk sense and who may have other motives, watching posters from a distance over time can educate your senses before spending any money.

    Also maybe concentrate on particular companies or sectors, get to understand particular markets; analysts cover a niche for good reason, it is hard to cover everything, so you ought to do likewise.

    Re my own credentials, I am old (a parent) have been investing for over 20 years, the last 8 with serious money (one of my pensions now a SIPP)

    You will make mistakes, you will maybe get a ten bagger (I have had one, 3.5p went to 75p, I started selling between about 35p to 45p, so far too early with hindsight, but felt better when it fell back to 3p later-Beowulf-do not touch it, not for widows and orphans)

    Anyway good luck.
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    (Original post by I feel myself)
    If you play the stock markets, you are a fool. It's a mug's game and you'll lose money at the end of the day. What you guys do is no different to horse race betting
    If you really want to learn how the stock market works, read DJKL and my posts in this thread, you'll learn a lot!
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    (Original post by I feel myself)
    long term sport gambling and trading are the same thing. If you put £1000 on Man City to win the league, the cash out evaluation will flucuate constantly depending on if their performance each week. Exact same with stock market. I know a lot about both subject matters, and they are pretty much identical
    DJKL has £260,000 in the financial markets, I have £14,000 in the financial markets...do you really not want to hear our side of the story?

    My dad has £120,000 in the financial markets, he gets on average £5,000 a year given to him in dividends on top of capital gain.

    What you need to do is look up FTSE 100 return for the last 30 years with dividends reinvested or Dow Jones Industrial Average return for the last 30 years with dividends reinvested and then come back to me.

    DJKL is an accountant and very savy investor and I'm a PhD Economics student, if you want to learn how to invest, PM me or him. Have a nice day.
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    (Original post by I feel myself)
    long term sport gambling and trading are the same thing. If you put £1000 on Man City to win the league, the cash out evaluation will flucuate constantly depending on if their performance each week. Exact same with stock market. I know a lot about both subject matters, and they are pretty much identical
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/d...o-decades.html

    ^^ read this article

    This I why I invest over the long term!
 
 
 
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